Afrikaans ?

@phillip I don't treat any people differently than I want to be treated, race is a pigment of your imagination, my family don't treat dark skinned people differently either, in in fact my Godchild is black.

I'm truly airry

Sorry for the typo, I am not guilty for what apartheid was or did, I was 6 when it ended, and I firmly believe that one should not be guilty for the sins of our fathers, but demonizing a whole portion of the population is wrong and it's apartheid all over again only reversed. Even worse we get slaughtered where as crime in those days was minimal, I think apartheid was abhorent but targetjng my language because. Of a stereotype is hardly a way to reconciliation only to mote animosity and hate

-- crime in those days were minimal-- ?
-- another dream to hold on to .
- we get slaughtered - ?? who is WE.
Afrikaans is the FIRST language of more than 6 million people classified coloured or non -white under Apartheid and disenfranchised by those who supported Apartheid .
Not just YOUR language Teuns Roux.
Everything about Apartheid was bad and worse for majority of South Africans except maybe those privileged " White " South Africans profiting from a horrendous system..ho should be grateful and thankful

This week in South Africa I saw and,experienced terrible
racism by "white ' Afrikaans speaking Dutch Reformed people under 30 years old Who somehow believe that the past over and not their fault and they can just carry on abusing other prople with darker skins as if nohing has changed. Very likeky encouraged by their parents who
became so wealthy under Apartheid.
Not just my imagination!

As much as now in 2022 so many try to deny the past.
Apartheid was supported buy mostly and the majority of
Afrikaans speaking "white " South Africans.
They were the ones abusing their own relatives and disenfranchising them.
The truth they now try to deny.
Fact

"This a typical AFRIKANER 's response ?" I'm an AFRIKANER, so no: It's NOT a typical Afrikaner response.

... and, by the way, Apartheid was also supported by most English-speaking white people. Why is this site being hijacked for political purposes?

Thank you Sandra Troskie
Did not think it was for a moment.
I provoke but I want us all to question ourselves -- including myself .
Most Afrikaans speaking South Africans NOT like that I do know very well.

Majority of,Afrikaans speaking Afrikaners I encounter every day were not classified " white " .under previous Government .They only speak Afrikaans ,watch Afrikaans TV ,read only Afrikaans books , listen to Afrikaans music and make traditional Afrikaans food.
What makes me angry even today many other Afrikaners want to shun them just because of skin colour.
I personally can not condone or accept that.
Afrikaans forever will be tainted and seen as the language of the oppressor but that should not be.
Should be the language of Ingrid Jonker ,Adam Smal and RAKA.
46 years of opression not easy to " Vergewe en Vergeet "
Just look on Geni how anything related to the 2nd Anglo-Boer War is treated. Those terrible Concentration Camps?
So vivid in imaginations even 120 years later.. even separate projects for Boers that died during the war.

Creole-Dutch

_____~
We still know very little about connections between different communities of the ex-bonded in town and countryside, but some were undoubtedly provided by the labour mobility, migration and service in colonial levies of community members. Creole-Dutch, or proto-Afrikaans, became the lin- guistic medium of communication. This language was not just a product of slave and Khoisan acculturation to colonial culture, the culture of their 'masters'. It was forged through social interaction and mutual lingusitic influence.

Black Ethnicities, Communities and Political Expression in Late Victorian Cape Town
Vivian Bickford-Smith

Reference :

https://www.academia.edu/3389798/Black_Ethnicities_Communities_and_...

A good reference for us South Africans

Providing Local Colour? "Cape Coloureds", "Cockneys" and Cape Town's identity from the Late Nineteenth Century to the 1970s
Vivian Bickford-Smith

https://www.academia.edu/5084104/Providing_Local_Colour_Cape_Colour...

------

This article analyzes how verbal and visual representations of Cape Town from the late nineteenth century to the 1970s used representations of spectacular Creole or “Colored” Capetonians as local color, most notably “Malays,” “Colored Flower Sellers” and “Coon Carnival participants” (these terms will be explained). Such representations may appear to be simply examples of racial “othering.” In this way, they might be deemed to be much the same as those ubiquitously present in the literature and art of European “discovery” and colonial encounter at the Cape that commenced with descriptions of “Hottentots” and the “Hottentot Venus.” These were representations that did not neglect culture but demonstrated particular fascination with perceived anatomical difference.

(2014) Following the Ancestors: Six Moments in a Genealogy of Urban Design and Heritage in the City of Cape Town, in: Archaeologies (10) 101-131.
Christian Ernsten

https://www.academia.edu/8226829/_2014_Following_the_Ancestors_Six_...

-----

Autshumao in Sleigh’s historical novel understood the benefits that the arri-val of the Dutch East India Company (VOC) could bring for him. Twidle,who I believe is interested in an off-modern reading of the colonial archive,calls Autshumao the Khoi captain ‘‘who guarded, then traded, then manipu-lated the colonial missives and messages’’ (Twidle 2013:132 and 151).The colonial inscription of the landscape of the Cape, as well as thedominant historical narrative, begins with the arrival of the ship of Jan vanRiebeeck in 1652. As we know from Sleigh, the Cape was no empty land.Yet the men of the VOC had a rather thwarted idea of the place. Africa,according to them, ‘‘was replete with legends of cannibals and one-footedcreatures,’’ writes archaeologist Martin Hall (Hall 2007:288). The localKhoi society, made up by the Gorachoqua and the Goringhaicona groups,was aware of the explorers and traders from Europe long before the Dutcharrived (Worden et al. 1998)

--- As a first footstep, I will quote, in accordance with literary scholar Hedley Twidle, a dramatic scene from Dan Sleigh’s
Eilande
(2002).
One red dawn, ten or twelve years before the Dutchman started building thisplace, Autshumao became leader of the Goringhaicona. He walked across thedunes to the sea as if he’d never known the dead or the living behind him.He was covered in blood, robbed, humiliated, as he walked in the half-dawnfrom the smouldering stubble of burnt grass beside a vlei, under the bitter

Reference source --

https://www.academia.edu/8226829/_2014_Following_the_Ancestors_Six_...

The ancestry of one Afrikaner

Gene Expression By Razib Khan Apr 27, 2010 3:41 PM

A few weeks ago I reviewed a paper on the the genetics of the Cape Coloured population. Within it there was a refrence to another paper, Deconstructing Jaco: genetic heritage of an Afrikaner. The title refers to the author himself. It was an analysis of his own pedigree going back to the 17th century, along with his mtDNA, his father’s mtDNA, and his Y lineage. The genetics is a bit thin, but the pedigree information is of Scandinavian quality from what I can tell. Praised the records of the Reformed Church!

The author’s utilizes an inversion of the typical method whereby a survey of a population may give some insight into individuals within that population. Rather, he leverages the thorough church records of his Afrikaner community, and his local roots, to paint a picture of his own ancestry. Then he compares the results to those of the community as a whole. Though an N of 1 certainly has limits it seems that the author concludes that he is relatively representative because some of the statistics that emerge out of pedigree analysis seem to fall in line with what genealogists working with the whole community have found. Additionally, it is clearly that he has deep roots within the historic Afrikaner nation, so assuming random mating and little population substructure, inferences from his pedigree may have some general utility.

Afrikaners apparently have some peculiarities genetically which has made them of some interest to scientists. It turns out that they seem to exhibit high frequencies of classical Mendelian diseases, a hallmark of inbreeding or population bottlenecks. This aligns well with the thesis that Afrikaners are the descendants of a small group of founders who arrived in the 17th century and entered into a long phase of demographic expansion, which culminated with their long Trek into the veld to escape English domination as well as perpetuate their practice of slavery (James Michner’s The Covenant is a fictionalization of this). As I have observed before the primacy of the “first settler” seems to loom large in the minds of demographers.

Note one point: only a minority of the ancestry of the author and Afrikaners are ethnically Dutch. This is important, because it shows how culture can spread and overwhelm ancestry. The Dutch imposed their language upon the French Huguenots, and their religion upon the Germans (who I presume were mostly Lutheran if they were from northern Germany, though a minority were Reformed or Catholic surely). Obviously the Reformed Calvinist religion and Afrikaans language both have a unique stamp in South Africa, but the connection of the Afrikaners to the Netherlands remained profound rather late in history. The Prime Minister of South Africa from 1958-1966 was born in the Netherlands. And yet another fact hard to deny is that the Huguenot French component seems to have persevered to a greater extent culturally than the German. The last Afrikaner President was named F. W. de Klerk, his surname being a form of Le Clerc. Another prominent South African head of state was Daniel Francois Malan. The author observes:

It is not clear if my higher estimate of French contribution is because of a systematic mistake in Heese’s (1970) estimate, or if it is because of a quirkiness in my own ancestry. It seemed to be the case that when a lineage hit the French Huguenots it stayed in this group. It will be interesting to compare the degree of inbreeding of the early generations of Huguenots to the other early immigrants. In the light of the calculations of Heyer et al. (2005) there is an interesting possibility that the cultural inheritance of fitness may have led to a systematic bias in Afrikaners, since Huguenots tended to be more educated and trained than German emigrants who tended to be soldiers. We are currently investigating this hypothesis.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/the-ancestry-of-one-a...

@Sharon, I can understand why you came to this conclusion. But, same as in the way epigenetics influence the way our genome is expressed, sociopolitical realities influences the "history" of languages. So called "standaard" Afrikaans is not a true reflection of the hustoric development of this language. It was a language that was willfully created for scientific and political reasons. In this sense standaard Afrikaans is c

... comparable to Bahasa Indonesia. After merdeka /independence the Indonesians married the Malayan language to Dutch, to create a sxientific and pilitical language.

" The language of Afrikaans remains a contested issue in South Africa. The controversy over the medium of instruction at traditionally Afrikaans universities such as Stellenbosch has brought this to the fore again. Should it be in Afrikaans, English, a combination, or a hybrid which will include other South African languages?

The institution has to find ways to continue to advance Afrikaans without the perceptions and experiences of racist behaviour associated with early and ruling Afrikaner nationalist practices. It’s essential to consider the current status of Afrikaans, as well as its history.

Many South Africans of every hue have contributed to the language’s formation and development. Afrikaans also has a “black history” rather than just the known hegemonic apartheid history inculcated by white Afrikaner Christian national education, propaganda and the media. "

More than an oppressor’s language: reclaiming the hidden history of Afrikaans

https://theconversation.com/more-than-an-oppressors-language-reclai...

I borrow more __

Afrikaans more black than white

Afrikaans is a southern African language. Today six in 10 of the almost seven million Afrikaans speakers in South Africa are estimated to be black. It’s a figure that will by all indications increase significantly in the next decade.

Like several other South African languages, Afrikaans is a cross-border language spanning sizeable communities of speakers in Namibia, Botswana and Zimbabwe. In South Africa and Namibia it’s spoken across all social indices, by the poor and the rich, by rural and urban people, by the under-educated and the educated.

Yet, when the white Afrikaner nationalists came to power in South Africa in 1948 they brought a set of ideas about society, social organisation, the economy, culture and language. Under apartheid, language was deployed as a tool of tribalism, in the service of this divide-and-rule policy.

One of the undoubted successes of Afrikaner nationalist hegemony was the creation of the myth that they, and only they, spoke for those identified as “Afrikaners”. Also, that their worldview was the only significant expression of being Afrikaans speaking. These nationalist culture brokers suppressed oppositional and alternative thought within the Afrikaner community. They also minimised the role and place of black Afrikaans speakers in the broader speech community.

It’s therefore not surprising that socio-political history often casts Afrikaans as the language of racists, oppressors and unreconstructed nationalists. But it also bears the imprint of a fierce tradition of anti-imperialism, anti-colonialism, of an all-embracing humanism and anti-apartheid activism.
Arabic script

In 1860 one of the students in a Cape Town madrasah (an Islamic school), a descendant of slaves, copied a prayer in his exercise book. Today the surviving fragments of that book reveals a history that somehow remains hidden to the vast majority of South Africans. The exercises in that book, also called a “koplesboek” (head lesson book), are written in “Cape Malay dialect”, the colloquial language of the time.

Apart from the phonetic spelling, any contemporary Afrikaans speaker would recognise it as near-modern Afrikaans. In this case, written in Arabic script. This is but one example of a well-known tradition of a'jami scripts produced in the Cape Muslim community in the latter half of the 19th century and well into the 1950s.

----Simplicity, brevity and vigour

Around 1870 the first steps towards the battle between various views on the nature of Cape Dutch, or what would become known as Afrikaans, were taken. Some of the leading figures of what would become known as the “first language movement” (1874–1890) strenuously denied the creole nature of the language. For them Afrikaans was “a pure Germanic language” of “purity, simplicity, brevity and vigour” (quoted in Giliomee).

The Genootskap van Regte Afrikaanders (GRA, the Society of True Afrikaners), established in 1875, actively sought to foster a nationalism among white Cape Dutch speakers. “Afrikaans” became their linguistic vehicle and “Afrikaners” their label. They sought to write a nationalist history of oppressors and victims (also Giliomee).

The GRA sought to actively demarcate “their language” to the point of diminishing and stigmatising other speakers’ claim to it. They declared their own version of Cape Dutch as prestige “Burger Afrikaans”, the distinct “white man’s language”.

Doggedly, these early Afrikaner language nationalists and their successors modified, standardised and modernised a spoken language. The racial prejudice and middle class bias underlying many of their choices had far-reaching implications. In denying the commonality of their fellow Afrikaans speakers who were descendants of slaves, indigenous people or simply poor, they were elevating the language to a narrow ethnic nationalist cause. Afrikaans was constructed as a “white language”, with a “white history” and “white faces”.
Nationalism severely diminished

In a disastrous policy decision, Afrikaans was imposed as a language of instruction on black, non-Afrikaans speakers in 1974. The impact was the point of ignition for the Soweto uprising in 1976 and along with it, suspicion of its speakers.

Afrikaans was labelled “the language of the oppressor”. The slogan was rightly an emotive, visceral response to Afrikaner ethnic, nationalist hegemony and its concomitant coercive state power. However, it also obscured the experiences, lives and histories of black and non-nationalist Afrikaans speakers.

Today, more than two decades into a democratic South Africa, Afrikaner nationalism has been severely diminished and along with it the standing of Afrikaans in the public sector. Nonetheless, in the private spheres of culture, private education, the media and subscription television Afrikaans has seen an exponential growth.

Yet Afrikaans has a multifaceted nature, numerically dominated by its black speakers. Rather than viewing Afrikaans through a single lens it is today acknowledged as an amalgam consisting of a variety of expressions, speakers and histories. It’s in this spirit that the debate on the medium of instruction at universities such as Stellenbosch has to be conducted.

This is an edited, updated version of an article Prof Willemse wrote for Mistra in 2015.

https://theconversation.com/more-than-an-oppressors-language-reclai...

For those interested read :

The Afrikaners: Biography of a People (Reconsiderations in Southern African History)
by Hermann Giliomee

The Afrikaners: Biography of A People, the first comprehensive history of the Afrikaner people based on―and critical of―the most recent scholarly work, draws on the author’s own research and interviews conducted with leading political actors. Hermann Giliomee weaves together life stories and interpretation to create a highly readable narrative history of the Afrikaners

Dokter Weyers, asseblief wat is hierdie tirade teen 'n taal? Ek probeer eerlikwaar verstaan waarom die radar soveel eiesinnige boodskappe vertoon. Ek kan u verseker dat wat ek hier lees nie Hermann Giliomee, of meeste onskuldig gebore persone, se opinie korrek weerspiel nie.

Aan die ander kant kan ek u net dank om dit vir my duidelik te maak wat 'n geneoloog is en nie is, en ek sien myself as volwaardig soos hieronder verduidelik.

Ek het vandag 'n seminaar bygewoon oor die navorsing van James W Vaupel, oorlede op 76 jarige ouderdom in Maart 2022 - u sal seker bewus wees van hom as stigter van die Planck Instituut daar in Duitsland? Soos die aanbieder aangedui het, opgeskryf aan hom, is hierdie skrywe ook...

As demograaf myself ook kan ek nogal baie wysheid daar sien, maar dan veral van sy vernaamste werke het dan veral gehandel oor populasie data wat vir hom toeganklik was (op my radar sy 1979 publikasie oor die "verskuiwing" van die ouderdomsgrens). Ek onderstreep dan veral in 1840-60s, volgens sy latere navorsing, was Swede die plek met die hoogste verwagte lewensverwagting in die wereld, maar soos ek na ons Afrikaanse bome kyk, was ons Afrikaanse lewensverwagting vir dames seker 10+ jaar meer! Net nie op sy radar nie... hier is 'n oorhoofse skakel... https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=nl&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=jam...=

Ons tyd is maar beperk, selfs met navorsing, reg, en ons moet meeste maak daarvan, en ek wonder of hierdie tirade nie stopgesit moet word en ons op meer lonende navorsing fokus nie? Miskien geneologie, die oplos, en plaas van bronne, eerder as vals en ondeurdagte skrywes. Hoop u horison kan verskuif na die doen van navorsing oor hoe om navorsing te doen. Ekself bied sulke lesse gratis aan.

Jan Blomerus -- Read what Professor Willemse wrote - you disagree with his " opinie " ?
I have also noticed Ethnicity on Geni profiles and what people add there.

J P Weyers, wat is nou presies die punt wat jy probeer maak? Was jy beledig toe iemand aangeneem het dat jy Afrikaans is? Dit is tog nie so 'n skouspelagtige fout nie? As mens in SAF na die paar bladsye oor die Weyer/Weyers familie kyk, is dit duidelike dat die vroegste stamvaders van die familie(s) in die Afrikaner gemeenskap getrou en geintigreer het.

Ek is nie verras dat Private User gevra het na jou tirade hier op Geni nie, dit was ook my ervaring dat die gesprekslyn 'n onverkwiklike getier deur 'n enkeling is. Jy maak soveel aanvegbare stellings en growwe veralgemenings, mens weet nie waar om te begin met 'n antwoord nie.

Wat presies is die Genealogiese waarde van die gesprek wat jy hier in monoloog voer?

Is daar enigsins moderering van gesprekke hier op Geni?

Keeping it civil and on- topic..

Purpose of original discussions .
1. AFRIKAANS as a language it's orgings ,history and poss future.
2 AFRIKAANS or Afrikaner as an ethnic group or community. Their origins ,genealogy and genetics .
Who are they ? Someone says : Ek is AFRIKAANS.
What does it mean ?

Jan Blomerus - the longevity of Afrikaners wonen ? Interesting I am busy reading an article specifically about the influence of mtDna on susceptibility to disease. How our genitic origins affect our health and age.

Will try my best not to digress or be sucked into a political discussion.

J P Weyers, ek dink nie dat Geni die forum is om onstaan en gskiedenis van Afrikaans uit te pluis nie, maar dit is maar net my beskeie mening.

Aangaande punt 2, dink ek dit is reg dat jy onderskei tussen Afrikaans/Afrikaner. As iemand sê "Ek is Afrikaans", beteken dit vir my dat die persoon Afrikaanssprekend is, ek sal dit ook op die manier gebruik.
As iemand egter sê "Ek is 'n Afrikaner", dan betekenen dit dat die persoon uitgesproke identifiseer as 'n Afrikaanssprekende van grootliks Europese afkoms (voor sovêr dat die afkoms ook al akuuraat mag wees). Sommige Afrikaners glo steeds dat hul van puur Europese afkoms is, en in sommige gevalle is dit noe onwaarskynlik nie. Ander het al voldoende navorsing gedoen om self te weet dat hulle 'n flinke persentasie genetiese materiaal geërf het uit ander bevolkingsgroepe.Die onderwerp oor die oorsprong van die Afrikaner is tog werklik nie nuut nie. Dr Heese en ander het al reeds in die vorige eeu werke gepubliseer om die aanwesigheid van Khoi, Slawe, Oosterse, Afrika voorouers in sommige Afrikaner families aan te toon.

Sharon Doubell, ek is bly dat jy 'n ogie oor die gesprek hou. Ek is nie sensitief van geaardheid nie, maar die gesprek was besig om aanstootlik te word. Politiese retoriek, soos "Afrikaans is gesteel", hoort nie vir my op die forum nie.