(Probably) not the father of William de Warenne, 1st Earl of Surrey

---

He is believed to have possibly been a brother or close kinsman to Roger de Mortimer, Seigneur de Mortemer-sur-Eaulne, near Neufchâtel-en-Brai, Normandy

They were possibly sons of Walter de Saint-Martin. There is also a possibility that they were sons of Hugues de Coutances, Bishop of Coutances. I have come across some sources that suggest yet another possible parentage--i.e., that he may have been the illegitimate son of Hugh d'Ivry, Bishop of Bayeux.

Ranulph II de Warenne b abt 1012.married Béatrice de Vascoeuïl. [His son Radolf/Ranulf II married Emma]

Child of Ranulph II de Warenne and Emma were:

   * Ranulph III de Warenne b abt 1032.

   * Sir William I de Warenne b abt 1034.

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/surrey.shtml:

Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage: Volume 12, Part 1: Surrey

Index SURREY

See also "proposed" section

Volume 12, Part 1, pages 491-3 (as modified by volume 14): RODULF DE WARENNE I ... is said to have held land outside the walls of Rouen under Robert I, Duke of Normandy (d. 1035) ... He also held land at Vascoeuil (dept. Eure), which he gave about 1053 to the abbey of St. Pierre des Préaux,(c) and in the pays de Caux, north of Rouen, where he sold 4 churches with tithes to the Holy Trinity in 1059, and gave another church, also with tithes, in 1074. He m. Beatrice, whose mother was almost certainly a sister of Gotmund Rufus DE VASCOEUIL, [and] da. of Tesselin, Vicomte of Rouen.(f) She was living about 1053.

RODULF DE WARENNE II, 1st s. and h., is known only from his subscriptions to two charters of his father for the Holy Trinity of Rouen. As his father's lands near Rouen and in the pays de Caux did not pass to his son William or William's descendants, it is likely that Rodulf suc. to them on his father's death; he m. Emma, whose parentage is unknown.(d)

1. WILLIAM DE WARENNE I was 1st s. of Rodulf II.

Page 491, note g (continuation on p. 492): The entries for Rodulf I and Rodulf II need considerable revision, see "Aspects of Robert of Torigny's Genealogies revisited", K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Nottingham Med. Studies, vol. 37, 1993, pp. 21-4. Page 492, note c: Stapleton, Archaeological Journal, vol. iii, p. 11. His 1st wife Beatrice consented. Loyd points out that Vascoeuil had formed part of the ducal demesne (op. cit., p. 98); and it seems likely that the land there was brought in by Beatrice. Note f: Keats-Rohan, op. cit. above, p. 24. Beatrice is there shown to have probably been a great-niece of Gunnor, 2nd wife of Richard I, Duke of Normandy. Page 493, note d: See Keats-Rohan, op. cit., p. 22.

Keats-Rohan's suggestion that Beatrice was a great niece of Gunnor must be viewed as somewhat conjectural. It is an attempt to explain Robert de Torigny's statement that William de Warenne I's (unnamed) mother was a niece of Gunnor, which is chronologically difficult because it seems to leave too few generations between Gunnor and William. Keats-Rohan's suggestion relies on the evidence that Beatrice was the daughter of Tesselin, vicomte of Rouen, in conjunction with Robert de Torigny's statement that a (different) niece of Gunnor married a vicomte of Rouen. But he actually specifies Richard, vicomte of Rouen, who was Tesselin's son. (An alternative conjecture might be that William de Warenne's mother Emma was a great niece, rather than a niece, of Gunnor.)

In Keats-Rohan's revised version, the dates originally given in relation to Rodulf I and his supposed 2nd wife, now apply to the marriage of Rodulf II and his wife Emma - they were married in or before 1059, and were both living in 1074 [cf. vol. 12, part 1, p. 492, notes h and i, citing Cart. Ste Trinité, nos xxix and xxxv]. The charter evidence shows that Rodulf II and Emma had an elder son Rodulf III and a younger son William I. The statement about the Warenne lands in Normandy relates to Rodulf III, and should read something like this (with the original conclusion restored): As Rodulf II's lands near Rouen and in the pays de Caux did not pass to his younger son William I or William's descendants, it is likely that his elder son Rodulf III suc. to them on Rodulf II's death; and as part of these lands had passed to the barons of Esneval by 1152, it is likely that Rodulf III married and left issue.

[Stewart Baldwin pointed out Keats-Rohan's revision in June 1996; the problem was subsequently discussed by Alan Wilson, Todd Farmerie and others.]

----------------------

In a passage very relevant to this profile, Charles Cawley writes:
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL2.htm

There has been considerable debate about the ancestry of Roger [I] de Mortemer. The first question relates to the possible relationship between Roger [I] de Mortemer and William de Warenne 1st Earl of Surrey. This issue is discussed in the Complete Peerage which concludes that "its exact nature has not at present been discovered"[211]. The fact of the family relationship is indicated by Orderic Vitalis who, in a passage recounting an alleged death-bed speech of William I King of England, records that the castle of Mortemer, confiscated from Roger [I] de Mortemer after the battle of Mortemer in 1054, was granted to "Guillelmo de Guarenna consanguineo eius"[212]. In addition to this, Robert de Torigny, in his description of abbeys in Normandy, records that "Rogerius de Mortuo Mari, filius Walterii de Sancto Martino, frater vero primi Willermi de Warenna" founded "monasterium Sancti Victoris"[213]. A third source, Guillaume of Jumièges records that “nepotes...plures...Gunnor...una earum” married “patri primi Willelmi de Warenna” by whom she had “idem Willelmus postea comes Surreiæ et Rogerus de Mortuo-mari frater ipsius” [although an undated charter quoted in the document NORMANDY NOBILITY, which records a sale of property by “Hugo de Flamenvilla”, indicates that Raoul´s second wife was the mother of his son Guillaume][214]. The second source is clearly incorrect as regards the parentage of William de Warenne, whose father is confirmed in other primary sources as Raoul de Warenne (see the document NORMANDY NOBILITY, WARENNE). It is also clear that Roger [I] de Mortemer (already holder of a castle in 1054) must have been considerably older than William de Warenne, and so could hardly have been his brother. Stapleton proposed in 1846 that Roger [I] de Mortimer and Raoul de Warenne, father of William de Warenne 1st Earl of Surrey, were brothers, arguing that, because they are both mentioned in charters of Sainte-Trinité de Rouen in connection with the same property (see below), they had probably inherited it jointly[215].

Stapleton also proposed that Roger [I] de Mortemer was the same person as Roger, son of "Bishop Hugues". The question of the identity of Bishop Hugues is discussed in the document NORMANDY NOBILITY. Roger, son of the bishop, is named in three charters, two of which name his father as Bishop Hugues. Firstly, "…ejusdem Rodulfi de Guarethna., Beatricis uxori eius, Rogerii filii episcopi, Huberti filii Turoldi…" witnessed an undated charter which records an agreement between Sainte-Trinité de Rouen and "Rodulfo Warethnæ" to buy land "in Blovilla…apud villam…Merdeplud…et terram prati Sottevillæ"[216]. Secondly, "Rogerius, Hugonis episcopi filius" sold serfs "sub suo dominio in Blovilla et Einardi mansionali et Novillula et in Scurra vel Merdepluet villa…et suæ domus propriæ in urbe Rotomagi" to Sainte-Trinité de Rouen, with the consent of "sua uxore Odain…et eorum filiis Willelmo et Hugone", by undated charter[217]. Thirdly, "Rodulfus de Warenna eiusque conjux…Emma cum filiis suis Rodulfo…atque Willelmo" sold "totius Osulfi Villæ eiusdem Caletensis pagi", sold by "Guillelmo filio Rogerii filii Hugonis episcopi", to Sainte-Trinité de Rouen by charter dated 1074[218]. The Complete Peerage dismisses Stapleton´s hypothesis[219]. It argues firstly that the wife of Roger [I] de Mortemer is named Hawise in primary sources, compared with Oda as the wife of Roger, son of the bishop, and also that the bishop´s son is recorded with children named Guillaume and Hugues, whereas Roger [I]´s heir was named Ralph, although it would not be beyond the stretch of imagination to combine the two families, with Roger having married twice. The third difficulty proposed by the Complete Peerage is harder to dismiss. This is that the 1074 charter quoted above implies that Roger, father of Guillaume, was already deceased at the time of the sale of their property to Raoul de Warenne, whereas sources demonstrate that Roger [I] de Mortemer was still alive in 1078. A further difficulty with Stapleton´s hypothesis is that, if it was correct, the same person would have been referred to in the sources sometimes as "filius episcopi" and sometimes as "de Mortuomari". Such dual appellations are unusual. Different primary sources at the time usually refer to the same individual by the same name and epithet, presumably reflecting the style by which he was normally known among his contemporaries. If a person was known by two names, the style "X qui et Y" was usually adopted in the sources. One possible explanation for this apparent exception to normal practice is that, after the confiscation of his castle, "Rogerius de Mortuomari" became known as "Rogerius filius episcopi", although this does not appear consistent with the survival of the name Mortimer among Roger´s descendants long after the castle was lost.

Sources

• [211] CP IX Appendix A, p. 3.
• [212] Orderic Vitalis (Prévost), Vol. III, Liber VII, XV, pp. 236-7.
• [213] Delisle, L. (ed.) (1872) Chronique de Robert de Torigni, abbé de Mont-Saint-Michel (Rouen), Tome II, p. 201.
• [214] Willelmi Gemmetensis monachi Historiæ Normannorum, Du Chesne, A. (1619) Historiæ Normannorum Scriptores Antiqui (Paris) (“Willelmi Gemmetencis Historiæ (Du Chesne, 1619)”), Liber VIII, XXXVII, p. 312.
• [215] Stapleton, Archæological Journal, Vol. III (1846), pp. 1-26, cited in CP IX Appendix A, p. 6 footnote e.
• [216] Rouen Sainte-Trinité, XXVII, p. 435.
• [217] Rouen Sainte-Trinité, XL, p. 442.
• [218] Deville, A. (ed.) (1840) Cartulaire de l'abbaye de la Sainte-Trinité du Mont de Rouen, Collection des cartularies de France Tome III (same volume as Cartulaire de Saint-Bertin) (Paris) ("Rouen Sainte-Trinité"), XXXV, p. 440.
• [219] CP IX Appendix A, p. 7.

-----------------------------

RODULF (e) DE WARENNE derived his name from the hamlet of Varenne (dept. Seine-Inférieure) on the little river Varenne in Normandy. His parentage is unknown. He is said to have held land outside the walls of Rouen under Robert I, Duke of Normandy (died 1035), and the Cartulary of the abbey of the Holy Trinity on the Mont de Rouen proves that he held a considerable territory on both banks of the Seine upstream from Rouen. He also held land at Vascoeuil (dept. Eure), which he gave about 1053 to the abbey of St. Pierre de Préaux (b), and in the pays de Caux, north of Rouen, where he sold 4 churches with tithes to the Holy Trinity in 1059, and gave another church, also with tithes, in 1074. He married Beatrice, whose mother was almost certainly a sister of Gotmund Rufus DE VASCOEUIL, daughter of Tesselin, Vicomte of Rouen. She was living about 1053. [Complete Peerage XII/1:491-2, XIV:603]

(e) His christian name is Latinised both as Rodulfus and as Radulfus (Ralph), This confusion occurs in other families (eg. the founder of the "Tancarvilles") and is probably due to two somewhat similar names having been assimilated into one; eg. Ranulf (from Hrabenwulf) and Randolf (from Randwulf). Scribes were then likely to change Rodulfus when copying early charters.

(b) Before May 1055 Rodulf sold to the monks land at Blosseville and Eauplet, on the right bank of the Seine, and Sotteville on the left bank. Subsequently he sold them all his rights in Blosseville, Mesnil-Esnard, Neuvillette, Lescure and Eauplet.

---

[From "The Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families"]

For this identification see Mr. Loyd's paper 'The Origin of the Family of Warenne' in Yorkshire Arch. Journal, vol. xxxi, pp. 97-113. The hamlet of Varenne lies on the river Varenne c. 2 miles S of Arques and c. 13 miles N of Bellencombre. The latter place, arr. Dieppe, cant. Bellencombre, where there was a castle, became the caput of the Warenne honour in Normandy.

---

Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann@yahoo.com, provided the
following additional information on Rodulf, in a post-em:

---

Rodulf (Ralph) I de Warenne

K.S.B. Keats-Rohan "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family":

1027-35: first occurrence of Ralph de Warenne in a charter for Saint-Amand [p22]

c1050: grant of land in Vascoeuil by Ralph de Warenne and wife Beatrice; charter mentions Ralph's brother Godfrey and was attested by Gotmund miles abbatis. Dateable to c1050 by a reference to Roger de Beaumont as Vicomte of Rouen [p22]

1050's: well known charters of early 1050s by which Ralph de Warenne and his wife Beatrice were associated with the lands of Roger fitz Bishop Hugh of Coutances and his sons. [p23]

Research note: K-R p22 contradicts CP (& Holloway & Wagner) by stating Rodulph/Ralph died before Beatrice. Beatrice is listed as living 1053 (CP XII/1:492 & ES III:698) & dead before 1059 (CP XII/1:492, K-R p22, Moriarty p184, Wagner p46]. K-R states a grant "made by widow Beatrice" to Preaux of land near Dozule, Eure was "dated during the time of William son of Count Robert, suggesting that William had not yet begun the series of military achievements that enabled him to be detached from his father in such references, i.e. before c1054-60". To do: check CP's source of the 1074 grant. Also is the term "widow" K-R's or stated in the grant of the land near Dozule?... Curt

=========================================

Rudolf married to Beatrix de Vascoeuil (1020 - 1059), a daughter of Vicomte Tesselin of Rouen and a niece of Gunnor of Crêpon, wife of Richard I "the Fearless", 3rd Duke of Normandy. Rudolf and Beatrix had a son: • Rudolf II de Warenne

http://www.robertsewell.ca/warren.html

=========================================

=====================================================

1E+8. Rudolph24 de Warrene I married Beatrice de Vascoeuil (see #.1E+8), daughter of Viscomte Tesselin de Rouen and Miss de Bolbec. He was born circa 998 at France. He died before 1059.

Children of Rudolph24 de Warrene I and Beatrice de Vascoeuil (see #.1E+8) were:

.8E+7 i. Rudolph23 de Warrene II.

http://ourtexasfamily.com/Alford-Green-Williams/Pope-Chloe-Ancestry...

===================

Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage: Volume 12, Part 1: Surrey / Volume 12, Part 1, pages 491-3 (as modified by volume 14):
RODULF DE WARENNE I ... is said to have held land outside the walls of Rouen under Robert I, Duke of Normandy (d. 1035) ... He also held land at Vascoeuil (dept. Eure), which he gave about 1053 to the abbey of St. Pierre des Préaux,(c) and in the pays de Caux, north of Rouen, where he sold 4 churches with tithes to the Holy Trinity in 1059, and gave another church, also with tithes, in 1074. He m. Beatrice, whose mother was almost certainly a sister of Gotmund Rufus DE VASCOEUIL, [and] da. of Tesselin, Vicomte of Rouen.(f) She was living about 1053.

RODULF DE WARENNE II, 1st s. and h., is known only from his subscriptions to two charters of his father for the Holy Trinity of Rouen. As his father's lands near Rouen and in the pays de Caux did not pass to his son William or William's descendants, it is likely that Rodulf suc. to them on his father's death; he m. Emma, whose parentage is unknown.(d)

It appears to be through this family that the relationship of two more Norman barons come into play, but not exactly as Torigny presents it. He shows yet another niece marrying Ranulph de Warenne, and by him having William de Warenne and Roger de Mortimer. This is clearly untrue, because Roger appears to have been a generation older than William. The solution appears to be that Torigny (as he had done with the Montgomerys) compressed two people, a father and son of the same name, into one individual. Ranulph de Warenne (I) appears to have married Beatrice, sister of Richard, vicomte of Rouen, and thus sister-in-law of one of Gunnor's nieces (thus it would appear that this family actually does not descend from a relative of Gunnor's, but is genealogically linked to some of her descendants) and had sons: Roger (de Mortimer) and Ranulph de Warenne (II), who in turn was father of another Ranulf (III) and of William de Warenne.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~medieval/gunnor.htm

---

http://www.geneajourney.com/wrrene1.html

http://www.atqs65.dsl.pipex.com/genealogy/html/early_ancestors.html

http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/3/3227.htm

---

He is believed to have possibly been a brother or close kinsman to Roger de Mortimer, Seigneur de Mortemer-sur-Eaulne, near Neufchâtel-en-Brai, Normandy

They were possibly sons of Walter de Saint-Martin. There is also a possibility that they were sons of Hugues de Coutances, Bishop of Coutances. I have come across some sources that suggest yet another possible parentage--i.e., that he may have been the illegitimate son of Hugh d'Ivry, Bishop of Bayeux.

Ranulph II de Warenne b abt 1012.married Béatrice de Vascoeuïl. [His son Radolf/Ranulf II married Emma]

Child of Ranulph II de Warenne and Emma were:

• Ranulph III de Warenne b abt 1032. * Sir William I de Warenne b abt 1034. http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/surrey.shtml:

Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage: Volume 12, Part 1: Surrey

Index SURREY

See also "proposed" section

Volume 12, Part 1, pages 491-3 (as modified by volume 14): RODULF DE WARENNE I ... is said to have held land outside the walls of Rouen under Robert I, Duke of Normandy (d. 1035) ... He also held land at Vascoeuil (dept. Eure), which he gave about 1053 to the abbey of St. Pierre des Préaux,(c) and in the pays de Caux, north of Rouen, where he sold 4 churches with tithes to the Holy Trinity in 1059, and gave another church, also with tithes, in 1074. He m. Beatrice, whose mother was almost certainly a sister of Gotmund Rufus DE VASCOEUIL, [and] da. of Tesselin, Vicomte of Rouen.(f) She was living about 1053.

RODULF DE WARENNE II, 1st s. and h., is known only from his subscriptions to two charters of his father for the Holy Trinity of Rouen. As his father's lands near Rouen and in the pays de Caux did not pass to his son William or William's descendants, it is likely that Rodulf suc. to them on his father's death; he m. Emma, whose parentage is unknown.(d)

1. WILLIAM DE WARENNE I was 1st s. of Rodulf II.

Page 491, note g (continuation on p. 492): The entries for Rodulf I and Rodulf II need considerable revision, see "Aspects of Robert of Torigny's Genealogies revisited", K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Nottingham Med. Studies, vol. 37, 1993, pp. 21-4. Page 492, note c: Stapleton, Archaeological Journal, vol. iii, p. 11. His 1st wife Beatrice consented. Loyd points out that Vascoeuil had formed part of the ducal demesne (op. cit., p. 98); and it seems likely that the land there was brought in by Beatrice. Note f: Keats-Rohan, op. cit. above, p. 24. Beatrice is there shown to have probably been a great-niece of Gunnor, 2nd wife of Richard I, Duke of Normandy. Page 493, note d: See Keats-Rohan, op. cit., p. 22.

Keats-Rohan's suggestion that Beatrice was a great niece of Gunnor must be viewed as somewhat conjectural. It is an attempt to explain Robert de Torigny's statement that William de Warenne I's (unnamed) mother was a niece of Gunnor, which is chronologically difficult because it seems to leave too few generations between Gunnor and William. Keats-Rohan's suggestion relies on the evidence that Beatrice was the daughter of Tesselin, vicomte of Rouen, in conjunction with Robert de Torigny's statement that a (different) niece of Gunnor married a vicomte of Rouen. But he actually specifies Richard, vicomte of Rouen, who was Tesselin's son. (An alternative conjecture might be that William de Warenne's mother Emma was a great niece, rather than a niece, of Gunnor.)

In Keats-Rohan's revised version, the dates originally given in relation to Rodulf I and his supposed 2nd wife, now apply to the marriage of Rodulf II and his wife Emma - they were married in or before 1059, and were both living in 1074 [cf. vol. 12, part 1, p. 492, notes h and i, citing Cart. Ste Trinité, nos xxix and xxxv]. The charter evidence shows that Rodulf II and Emma had an elder son Rodulf III and a younger son William I. The statement about the Warenne lands in Normandy relates to Rodulf III, and should read something like this (with the original conclusion restored): As Rodulf II's lands near Rouen and in the pays de Caux did not pass to his younger son William I or William's descendants, it is likely that his elder son Rodulf III suc. to them on Rodulf II's death; and as part of these lands had passed to the barons of Esneval by 1152, it is likely that Rodulf III married and left issue.

[Stewart Baldwin pointed out Keats-Rohan's revision in June 1996; the problem was subsequently discussed by Alan Wilson, Todd Farmerie and others.]

---

In a passage very relevant to this profile, Charles Cawley writes: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL2.htm

There has been considerable debate about the ancestry of Roger [I] de Mortemer. The first question relates to the possible relationship between Roger [I] de Mortemer and William de Warenne 1st Earl of Surrey. This issue is discussed in the Complete Peerage which concludes that "its exact nature has not at present been discovered"[211]. The fact of the family relationship is indicated by Orderic Vitalis who, in a passage recounting an alleged death-bed speech of William I King of England, records that the castle of Mortemer, confiscated from Roger [I] de Mortemer after the battle of Mortemer in 1054, was granted to "Guillelmo de Guarenna consanguineo eius"[212]. In addition to this, Robert de Torigny, in his description of abbeys in Normandy, records that "Rogerius de Mortuo Mari, filius Walterii de Sancto Martino, frater vero primi Willermi de Warenna" founded "monasterium Sancti Victoris"[213]. A third source, Guillaume of Jumièges records that “nepotes...plures...Gunnor...una earum” married “patri primi Willelmi de Warenna” by whom she had “idem Willelmus postea comes Surreiæ et Rogerus de Mortuo-mari frater ipsius” [although an undated charter quoted in the document NORMANDY NOBILITY, which records a sale of property by “Hugo de Flamenvilla”, indicates that Raoul´s second wife was the mother of his son Guillaume][214]. The second source is clearly incorrect as regards the parentage of William de Warenne, whose father is confirmed in other primary sources as Raoul de Warenne (see the document NORMANDY NOBILITY, WARENNE). It is also clear that Roger [I] de Mortemer (already holder of a castle in 1054) must have been considerably older than William de Warenne, and so could hardly have been his brother. Stapleton proposed in 1846 that Roger [I] de Mortimer and Raoul de Warenne, father of William de Warenne 1st Earl of Surrey, were brothers, arguing that, because they are both mentioned in charters of Sainte-Trinité de Rouen in connection with the same property (see below), they had probably inherited it jointly[215].

Stapleton also proposed that Roger [I] de Mortemer was the same person as Roger, son of "Bishop Hugues". The question of the identity of Bishop Hugues is discussed in the document NORMANDY NOBILITY. Roger, son of the bishop, is named in three charters, two of which name his father as Bishop Hugues. Firstly, "…ejusdem Rodulfi de Guarethna., Beatricis uxori eius, Rogerii filii episcopi, Huberti filii Turoldi…" witnessed an undated charter which records an agreement between Sainte-Trinité de Rouen and "Rodulfo Warethnæ" to buy land "in Blovilla…apud villam…Merdeplud…et terram prati Sottevillæ"[216]. Secondly, "Rogerius, Hugonis episcopi filius" sold serfs "sub suo dominio in Blovilla et Einardi mansionali et Novillula et in Scurra vel Merdepluet villa…et suæ domus propriæ in urbe Rotomagi" to Sainte-Trinité de Rouen, with the consent of "sua uxore Odain…et eorum filiis Willelmo et Hugone", by undated charter[217]. Thirdly, "Rodulfus de Warenna eiusque conjux…Emma cum filiis suis Rodulfo…atque Willelmo" sold "totius Osulfi Villæ eiusdem Caletensis pagi", sold by "Guillelmo filio Rogerii filii Hugonis episcopi", to Sainte-Trinité de Rouen by charter dated 1074[218]. The Complete Peerage dismisses Stapleton´s hypothesis[219]. It argues firstly that the wife of Roger [I] de Mortemer is named Hawise in primary sources, compared with Oda as the wife of Roger, son of the bishop, and also that the bishop´s son is recorded with children named Guillaume and Hugues, whereas Roger [I]´s heir was named Ralph, although it would not be beyond the stretch of imagination to combine the two families, with Roger having married twice. The third difficulty proposed by the Complete Peerage is harder to dismiss. This is that the 1074 charter quoted above implies that Roger, father of Guillaume, was already deceased at the time of the sale of their property to Raoul de Warenne, whereas sources demonstrate that Roger [I] de Mortemer was still alive in 1078. A further difficulty with Stapleton´s hypothesis is that, if it was correct, the same person would have been referred to in the sources sometimes as "filius episcopi" and sometimes as "de Mortuomari". Such dual appellations are unusual. Different primary sources at the time usually refer to the same individual by the same name and epithet, presumably reflecting the style by which he was normally known among his contemporaries. If a person was known by two names, the style "X qui et Y" was usually adopted in the sources. One possible explanation for this apparent exception to normal practice is that, after the confiscation of his castle, "Rogerius de Mortuomari" became known as "Rogerius filius episcopi", although this does not appear consistent with the survival of the name Mortimer among Roger´s descendants long after the castle was lost.

Sources

[211] CP IX Appendix A, p. 3. [212] Orderic Vitalis (Prévost), Vol. III, Liber VII, XV, pp. 236-7. [213] Delisle, L. (ed.) (1872) Chronique de Robert de Torigni, abbé de Mont-Saint-Michel (Rouen), Tome II, p. 201. [214] Willelmi Gemmetensis monachi Historiæ Normannorum, Du Chesne, A. (1619) Historiæ Normannorum Scriptores Antiqui (Paris) (“Willelmi Gemmetencis Historiæ (Du Chesne, 1619)”), Liber VIII, XXXVII, p. 312. [215] Stapleton, Archæological Journal, Vol. III (1846), pp. 1-26, cited in CP IX Appendix A, p. 6 footnote e. [216] Rouen Sainte-Trinité, XXVII, p. 435. [217] Rouen Sainte-Trinité, XL, p. 442. [218] Deville, A. (ed.) (1840) Cartulaire de l'abbaye de la Sainte-Trinité du Mont de Rouen, Collection des cartularies de France Tome III (same volume as Cartulaire de Saint-Bertin) (Paris) ("Rouen Sainte-Trinité"), XXXV, p. 440. [219] CP IX Appendix A, p. 7.
-----------------------------

RODULF (e) DE WARENNE derived his name from the hamlet of Varenne (dept. Seine-Inférieure) on the little river Varenne in Normandy. His parentage is unknown. He is said to have held land outside the walls of Rouen under Robert I, Duke of Normandy (died 1035), and the Cartulary of the abbey of the Holy Trinity on the Mont de Rouen proves that he held a considerable territory on both banks of the Seine upstream from Rouen. He also held land at Vascoeuil (dept. Eure), which he gave about 1053 to the abbey of St. Pierre de Préaux (b), and in the pays de Caux, north of Rouen, where he sold 4 churches with tithes to the Holy Trinity in 1059, and gave another church, also with tithes, in 1074. He married Beatrice, whose mother was almost certainly a sister of Gotmund Rufus DE VASCOEUIL, daughter of Tesselin, Vicomte of Rouen. She was living about 1053. [Complete Peerage XII/1:491-2, XIV:603]

(e) His christian name is Latinised both as Rodulfus and as Radulfus (Ralph), This confusion occurs in other families (eg. the founder of the "Tancarvilles") and is probably due to two somewhat similar names having been assimilated into one; eg. Ranulf (from Hrabenwulf) and Randolf (from Randwulf). Scribes were then likely to change Rodulfus when copying early charters.

(b) Before May 1055 Rodulf sold to the monks land at Blosseville and Eauplet, on the right bank of the Seine, and Sotteville on the left bank. Subsequently he sold them all his rights in Blosseville, Mesnil-Esnard, Neuvillette, Lescure and Eauplet. --------------- [From "The Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families"]

For this identification see Mr. Loyd's paper 'The Origin of the Family of Warenne' in Yorkshire Arch. Journal, vol. xxxi, pp. 97-113. The hamlet of Varenne lies on the river Varenne c. 2 miles S of Arques and c. 13 miles N of Bellencombre. The latter place, arr. Dieppe, cant. Bellencombre, where there was a castle, became the caput of the Warenne honour in Normandy. --------------- Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann@yahoo.com, provided the following additional information on Rodulf, in a post-em: --------------- Rodulf (Ralph) I de Warenne

K.S.B. Keats-Rohan "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family":

1027-35: first occurrence of Ralph de Warenne in a charter for Saint-Amand [p22]

c1050: grant of land in Vascoeuil by Ralph de Warenne and wife Beatrice; charter mentions Ralph's brother Godfrey and was attested by Gotmund miles abbatis. Dateable to c1050 by a reference to Roger de Beaumont as Vicomte of Rouen [p22]

1050's: well known charters of early 1050s by which Ralph de Warenne and his wife Beatrice were associated with the lands of Roger fitz Bishop Hugh of Coutances and his sons. [p23]

Research note: K-R p22 contradicts CP (& Holloway & Wagner) by stating Rodulph/Ralph died before Beatrice. Beatrice is listed as living 1053 (CP XII/1:492 & ES III:698) & dead before 1059 (CP XII/1:492, K-R p22, Moriarty p184, Wagner p46]. K-R states a grant "made by widow Beatrice" to Preaux of land near Dozule, Eure was "dated during the time of William son of Count Robert, suggesting that William had not yet begun the series of military achievements that enabled him to be detached from his father in such references, i.e. before c1054-60". To do: check CP's source of the 1074 grant. Also is the term "widow" K-R's or stated in the grant of the land near Dozule?... Curt

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Rudolf married to Beatrix de Vascoeuil (1020 - 1059), a daughter of Vicomte Tesselin of Rouen and a niece of Gunnor of Crêpon, wife of Richard I "the Fearless", 3rd Duke of Normandy. Rudolf and Beatrix had a son: • Rudolf II de Warenne

http://www.robertsewell.ca/warren.html

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1E+8. Rudolph24 de Warrene I married Beatrice de Vascoeuil (see #.1E+8), daughter of Viscomte Tesselin de Rouen and Miss de Bolbec. He was born circa 998 at France. He died before 1059.

Children of Rudolph24 de Warrene I and Beatrice de Vascoeuil (see #.1E+8) were:

.8E+7 i. Rudolph23 de Warrene II. http://ourtexasfamily.com/Alford-Green-Williams/Pope-Chloe-Ancestry...

Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage: Volume 12, Part 1: Surrey / Volume 12, Part 1, pages 491-3 (as modified by volume 14): RODULF DE WARENNE I ... is said to have held land outside the walls of Rouen under Robert I, Duke of Normandy (d. 1035) ... He also held land at Vascoeuil (dept. Eure), which he gave about 1053 to the abbey of St. Pierre des Préaux,(c) and in the pays de Caux, north of Rouen, where he sold 4 churches with tithes to the Holy Trinity in 1059, and gave another church, also with tithes, in 1074. He m. Beatrice, whose mother was almost certainly a sister of Gotmund Rufus DE VASCOEUIL, [and] da. of Tesselin, Vicomte of Rouen.(f) She was living about 1053.

RODULF DE WARENNE II, 1st s. and h., is known only from his subscriptions to two charters of his father for the Holy Trinity of Rouen. As his father's lands near Rouen and in the pays de Caux did not pass to his son William or William's descendants, it is likely that Rodulf suc. to them on his father's death; he m. Emma, whose parentage is unknown.(d) It appears to be through this family that the relationship of two more Norman barons come into play, but not exactly as Torigny presents it. He shows yet another niece marrying Ranulph de Warenne, and by him having William de Warenne and Roger de Mortimer. This is clearly untrue, because Roger appears to have been a generation older than William. The solution appears to be that Torigny (as he had done with the Montgomerys) compressed two people, a father and son of the same name, into one individual. Ranulph de Warenne (I) appears to have married Beatrice, sister of Richard, vicomte of Rouen, and thus sister-in-law of one of Gunnor's nieces (thus it would appear that this family actually does not descend from a relative of Gunnor's, but is genealogically linked to some of her descendants) and had sons: Roger (de Mortimer) and Ranulph de Warenne (II), who in turn was father of another Ranulf (III) and of William de Warenne.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~medieval/gunnor.htm

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http://www.geneajourney.com/wrrene1.html

http://www.atqs65.dsl.pipex.com/genealogy/html/early_ancestors.html

http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/3/3227.htm

read more

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Ranulph I de Varennes was born circa 998. He was the son of Guillaume de Varennes and N. N. de Torta. Ranulph I de Varennes married Beatrice of Rouen, daughter of Tesselin of Rouen and N. N. de Crepon, before 1036. Ranulph I de Varennes died after 1074.

Family

1. Beatrice of Rouen b. circa 980

Children

1. Roger de Mortemer+ b. c 1029?, d. b 1086
2. Guillaume I de Varennes, 1st Earl of Surrey+ b. c 1036, d. 24 Jun 1088
3. Ranulph II de Warenne+ b. a 1036, d. a 1074

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From Todd A. Farmerie, "Gunnor of Normandy":

It appears to be through this family that the relationship of two more Norman barons come into play, but not exactly as Torigny presents it. He shows yet another niece marrying Ranulph de Warenne, and by him having William de Warenne and Roger de Mortimer. This is clearly untrue, because Roger appears to have been a generation older than William. The solution appears to be that Torigny (as he had done with the Montgomerys) compressed two people, a father and son of the same name, into one individual. Ranulph de Warenne (I) appears to have married Beatrice, sister of Richard, vicomte of Rouen, and thus sister-in-law of one of Gunnor's nieces (thus it would appear that this family actually does not descend from a relative of Gunnor's, but is genealogically linked to some of her descendants) and had sons: Roger (de Mortimer) and Ranulph de Warenne (II), who in turn was father of another Ranulf (III) and of William de Warenne.

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References

1. https://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cousin/html/p64.htm#i8462 Citations
   1. [S221] Todd A. Farmerie, "Gunnor of Normandy". < link > cites
      1. Elisabeth M C van Houts. Robert of Torigni as Genealogist. in Studies in Medieval History presented to R. Allen Brown, p.215-33.
      2. Kathleen Thompson. The Norman Aristocracy before 1066: the Example of the Montgomerys. in Historical Research 60:251-63.
      3. K S B Keats-Rohan. Aspects of Torigny's Genealogy Revisited. in Nottingham Medieval Studies 37:21-7.
2. Mélanges, Docs. Publiés et Annotés (1898) - Gautier de Saint-Marint.pdf (document attached)
3. https://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cousin/html/p349.htm#i8461 cites
   1. [S204] Roderick W. Stuart, RfC, 135-31. Royalty for Commoners.