Bældæg, king in Westphalia - Evidence for a Historical Odin (and Thus a Historical Bældæg)

It was fairly common for real, mortal Kings to be presented in public as divines or deities, and not only during ancient or prehistorical times. Probably the main reason for the extensive utilization of gold and gemstones in their CROWNS and attire (often robes), and the use of gaudy thrones and palaces.

Even Otto II was depicted as a holy divinity within a sort of supercharged double halo in a manuscript illuminated image within the Aachen Codex, sitting on a floating throne surrounded by cherubim and apostles while being personally annointed by the very hand of the Creator himself.

Some less informed or poorly educated self-described 'scholars' might be tempted to claim that because he was so 'obviously' 'supernatural' he must have been fictional, lol.

Which is interesting in light of the fact that there seems to be a rather creepy trend in recent years of photographing some of our US presidents in front of a 'special' graphic which forms an optical illusion making them appear to be wearing halos, like saints. (I suppose that sort of trickery or mockery makes them feel very clever.)

Perhaps a thousand years hence, after all of our records have again been lost or destroyed, the 'modern' future genealogists will find old images of them buried in a bunker and argue that they were purely mythical since 'there's no such thing', lol.

The core issue here is a persistent scholarly inconsistency in evaluating these genealogies. Let's examine the facts:

1. **The Double Standard in Treatment**
- Bældæg's father Woden appears in the same chronicles, using the same types of records, as his ancestors like Godwulf and Finn
- Yet only Woden gets "promoted" to the Norse pantheon while his ancestors are dismissed as fictional
- There is ZERO contemporary evidence that the Woden in these genealogies was considered divine by the chroniclers who recorded them

2. **The Naming Argument**
- We have countless examples of mortals bearing god-names:

  • Viking Age men named Thor, Frey, and Odin

  • Roman emperors called Augustus (originally divine)

  • Modern people named Jesus, Diana or Apollo

- Yet when we see "Woden" in a genealogy, there's an automatic assumption it must refer to the god

3. **The Burden of Proof**
- Those claiming this Woden was the god must explain:

  • Why NO Norse sources mention these genealogical ancestors

  • Why ONLY Anglo-Saxon sources preserve this lineage

  • How a god fathered mortal children in a historical timeframe (4th-5th century AD)

4. **The More Plausible Scenario**
The evidence better supports that:
- A powerful Migration-era king was named Woden/Odin after the god (or took the name)
- His descendants exaggerated his status over generations
- Later Norse mythmakers appropriated his name for their pantheon
- Christian chroniclers preserved his mortal lineage while Scandinavian sources focused on the divine version

• *Conclusion:** There is no contemporary basis for treating Woden differently than his ancestors in these genealogies. The divine association came later, through cultural transmission and myth-making. The chronicles themselves present him as mortal - it's modern scholars who've imposed the supernatural interpretation without justification.

Would welcome specific evidence from anyone arguing the divine position - particularly any PRIMARY sources that actually identify the genealogical Woden as the god. Otherwise, we're applying different standards to figures from the same historical records.

He's my 52nd Great Grandfather. Heck, he's one of the reasons I'm here! :)

Your not alone as you are my 19th cousin once removed, And King
Bældæg, king in Westphalia is my 56th Great Grandfather.

As someone directly descended from this lineage (Bældæg being my 51st great-grandfather and Godwulf my 56th), I need to address the problematic way these genealogies are being handled.

The Core Issue:
There's an inconsistent standard being applied to our ancestors:

   The exact same chronicles list both Woden AND his ancestors (Godwulf, Finn, etc.)

Yet only Woden gets labeled "mythical" and connected to Norse gods
His ancestors - my ancestors - are being erased from family trees without justification
The Facts:

   Norse Mythology Knows Nothing of Woden's Ancestors

The Prose Edda says Odin's father was Borr, a cosmic being
It mentions NO Frithowald, Frithuwulf, Finn, or Godwulf
These names ONLY appear in Anglo-Saxon royal genealogies
The Chronicles Present a Complete Mortal Lineage

   The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle gives us:

   Woden son of Frithowald

   Frithowald son of Frithuwulf

   Frithuwulf son of Finn

   Finn son of Godwulf

   Godwulf son of Geat

These are presented as historical figures - not gods.
Modern Bias is Erasing Our Ancestors
Geni has arbitrarily decided Woden was the god Odin
But provides NO evidence the chroniclers meant this
Then excludes his ancestors as "mythical" despite:

       • Being from the same sources

       • Having equally valid claims to existence

The Logical Conclusion:
Either:
A) ALL these figures are mythical (which contradicts how the chronicles present them), or
B) NONE are mythical, and we're seeing a mortal lineage that later got connected to mythology

There is NO justification for:

   Accepting Woden as divine while

Rejecting his father, grandfather, etc. as fictional
My Request:
Restore Godwulf and the rest to our family trees unless someone can provide:

   Contemporary evidence they were considered gods

A valid reason to treat them differently than Woden
Any primary source that contradicts the chronicles
Our ancestors deserve equal treatment in the historical record.

Hello Cousin,
Thank you for raising this. The arbitrary labeling of Woden as ‘mythical’ and his Anglo-Saxon Chronicle-documented ancestors (Godwulf, Finn, etc.) are isolated as ‘fictional’ contradicts both primary sources and academic consensus.

Key Evidence:
The ASC treats all these figures as mortal rulers (Geat → Godwulf → ... → Woden → Bældæg).
Norse mythology never mentions Frithowald, Finn, or Godwulf—proving they’re Saxon historical figures, not myths.

Hi Steven Edward Ballor

This thread seems to hinge on the fact that "Woden" is treated as a god but his son and the ancestors named in ASC are not.

This is because Odin, {Norse God} is definitively a Norse God whereas Bældæg, king in Westphalia and his ancestors are not.

The disconnect here, or as you say the CORE ISSUE is not a double standard, it is that
the profile for _Woden_ which used to connect Bældæg, king in Westphalia and Frithowald was merged into the completely separate Norse Mythology tree (which no user should be descended of).

I cannot find direct evidence of the merge (Odin is such i high traffic profile) but i can see that on May 2nd 2018 the profiles of Woden and Odin had been merged and rather than resolving the issue by reversing the merge the connection between _ODIN_ and the descendants and ancestors listed in ASC for _Woden_ were severed:

However, before we recreate the Woden profile and connect Bældæg to Frithowald the question needs to be addressed as to where to draw the line between humans and deities.

This is because if I connect you (via Bældæg) to Frithowald then you also become a descendant of Geat / Ját, {Mythological}

Now Geat / Ját, {Mythological} is a divine being, so as genealogists that want an evidenced based tree devine beings don't belong in trees connected to Geni users.
So on second thoughts it may well be that the person that disconnected Bældæg from Woden did so intentionally. Impossible to know without asking them.

Proto-Germanic: Wōðanaz

Norse Óðinn, probably descends from the same god/concept. Or not. :-)

Woden is described as physically different, which is interesting. For example, Woden had both eyes. Perhaps a regional difference when you have people worshipping similarly, but separately, or you could take this as some very loose evidence of one or the other as having been a real person. There are similarities of the others who are associated with both Woden and Odin as well, which makes it tricky to determine--Tiwaz vs Tyr, and so on.

I've never understood why Geni cuts some of the really old lines, and not the others. The "proof" for most in a pure genealogical sense is always on shaky ground so it seems to come down to who shouts the loudest, and which personal opinions win.

Alex Moes
Hi Alex,

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply — I really appreciate it.
After reading through all the past discussions around this part of the tree, I can see how complicated this is. It mixes history, mythology, genealogy standards, and even a bit of philosophy.

I want to take some more time to dig into it and understand it better.
Maybe once I’ve had a chance to study it more, we can come up with a proposal that could make things a little easier on your side.

Thanks again for everything you do — I know it’s a lot of work!

Best,
Steven

Steven Edward Ballor thank you for the kind words.

Work has pulled me away from Geni since COVID, I try to drop in and keep up with messages and requests but Discussions and research no longer get hours of my time daily.

If you would like assistance or advice tagging me will not likely get my attention but I will answer PMs eventually, even if the message is just asking me to read a particular discussion thread.