Tzvi Heller Kahana, of Polonoye - Sources?

Private User Neil Rosenstein also has Rabbi Yehuda Kahana Heller, of Kalisz as the son of Yaakov Yosef Kahana (Katz) of Turysk, in the family trees in the back of The Fast and the Feast. Of course there is no source referenced, and I think there are other problems with his version of the Kahane tree.

Dovid Rosenbaum I am tagging the profile's curator. Yigal Burstein The rest is out my hands.

It seems that someone confused between R' Yaakov Yosef Kahan (Kahana) of Pragye and R' Yaakov Yosef Katz of Turiisk.
I think that the correct lineage is: R' Yaakov Yosef Katz of Pollone, son of R' Tzvi Hirsh Katz of Turiisk, son of Yaakov Yosef Katz, husband of Reizel, daughter of R' Shmuel Heller Wallerstein, son of the Tosfot Yom Tov.

Even with this proposed pedigree there is still the problem of birth years: Rav Yaakov Yosef Kahana Heller, "Toldot yahakov Yosef" of Polonne" born 1710, grandson of Yaakov Yosef Kahana (Katz) of Turysk born c 1580. I suppose it could be possible for a grandson to be born around 120 years later, if both the grandfather and the father had sons around the age of 65, but this would seem improbable. Is there any outside evidence supporting the existence of Tsvi Hirsch Katz of Turisk, son of Yaakov Yosef and Reizel?

Considering that we're talking about prominent rabbis in Eastern Europe I suspect they didn't wait until 65 to have children (save for cases of second or third marriages) and so these birth years are highly improbable.

You are wrongly referencing to @הרב יעקב יוסף כהנא, מטוריסק, son-in-law of the Tosfot Yom Tov.

I think that your pedigree is wrong and should be corrected to:
@הרב יעקב יוסף כהנא הלר, מפולנויה b. 1710 (1), son of
Tzvi Hirsch Katz of Turiisk b. circa 1675 , son of
Yaakov Yosef Katz and Reizel b. circa 1642 , daughter of
@שמואל שמואל ליפמן הלר, [s.#7 Tosfot Yom Tov] MP
b. 1609, son of
@גרשון שאול יום טוב הלוי ליפמן הלר, "תוספות יום טוב" b. 1579

(1) According to the following, Yaakov Yosef Katz of Polonne was born circa 1695:
"לפי המובא בספר שבחי הבעש"ט היה התולדות בשנת תקכ"ד "קרוב לששים שנה ואפשר יותר

(2) Tzvi Hirsch Katz of Turiisk was a descendant of Samson ben Pesah Ostropoli b. 1600.

Private User, do you know if this pedigree makes sense? Did Yom Tov Lippman Heller - "Tosfot Yom Tov" not have a daughter Raizel Segal Kahana, [d.#1 Tosfot Yom Tov]? Or was she simply a granddaughter?
I think it is established that she is the matriarch of the Kahana-Heller family but I would be interested to know if there is any evidence to support her being a granddaughter rather than a daughter of the Tosfot Yom Tov.

It seems clear to me, based on the physical inscription from Prague as reported by Otto Muneles in #212, that Raizel bat Tosphot Yom Tov Heller is the spouse of Yakov Yosef Kahana. Neither Muneles nor Friedman in Otser HaRabanim, nor Jacobi, mention a son named Tsvi Hirsch Katz (of Turisk) who is in turn the father of Toldot Yakov of Polonne. Therefore I remain dubious whether Toldot Yakov is from the same Kohenite lineage as YY Kahana. More evidence is needed.

I agree that Raizel bat Tosphot Yom Tov Heller is the spouse of Yakov Yosef Kahana.
I'm a descendant of Toledot Yakov Yosef, but I didn't find any reliable source suggesting that he was a descendant of the Tosphot Yom Tov and Rabbi Shimshon Ostropolyer. Are you familiar with any source?
Anyhow, I don't think that the Toledot should be connected to the lineage of Yakov Yosef Kahana.
Therefore, I suggested an alternative speculated connection.
Is there a reliable source that the Toledot was the son of Tzvi Hirsch, the descendant of the "Yesod Yosef"?
If it is correct than his paternal lineage is probably:
The Toledot, son of
Tzvi Hirsch, son of
Yosef [or Yakov Yosef] (a speculated name), son of
Eliyaho (a speculted name), son of
Tzvi Hirsch (author of Ateret Tzvi and Nachalat Tzvi), son of
Yosef (author of Yesod Yosef), son of
Eliyahu.
By analyzing the years it seems that the connection to the Tosphot Yom Tov could be either through the mother, or grandmother, of the Toledot' father.

Sources:
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A6%D7%91%D7%99_%D7%9B%D7%A5
פרקים לתולדות המחבר, בתוך: שולחן ערוך אורח חיים, עם הפירושים הקדומים ראשוני מפרשי השולחן ערוך אורח חיים, נחלת צבי ועטרת צבי. ירושלים: זיכרון אהרן, תשס"ג, עמ' 11–23.:
https://tablet.otzar.org/#/b/151440/p/1/t/1722245878920/fs/cGn9AcmJ...
I apologize for the text direction, but I'm using Hebrew Windows and even although I select the text direction in the response box, it doesn't help.

Would you mind linking the existing profiles to the names you wrote so that we would have a point of reference in the tree?

I agree that @רייזל כהנא, [d.#1 Tosfot Yom Tov]
is the spouse of @Yaakov Yosef Kahana (Katz) of Turysk.
I'm a descendant of @הרב יעקב יוסף כהנא הלר, מפולנויה, but I didn't find any reliable source suggesting that he was a descendant of the @יום טוב ליפמן הלר - תוספות יו"ט and Rabbi Shimshon Ostropolyer. Are you familiar with any source?
Anyhow, I don't think that @Yaakov Yosef Kahana (Katz) of Turysk should be connected to the lineage of @Yaakov Yosef Kahana (Katz) of Turysk.
Therefore, I suggested an alternative speculated connection.
Is there a reliable source that the Toledot was the son of Tzvi Hirsch, the descendant of the "Yesod Yosef"?
(It is mentioned in the entry of Rabbi Yakov Yosef ben Rabbi Tzvi Katz of Polonne in the book "Chachmey Israel (חכמי ישראל)" by Rabbi David Halachmi, Tel Aviv 5718 pages 205-6 ((רה-ו), on the Otzar HaChochma website: https://tablet.otzar.org/he/book/book.php?book=632677&pagenum=213 but without specifying the source)
If it is correct than his paternal lineage is probably:
@Yaakov Yosef Kahana (Katz) of Turysk, son of
@Tzvi Heller Kahana, of Polonne, son of
Yosef [or Yakov Yosef] (a speculated name), son of
Eliyaho (a speculted name), son of
Tzvi Hirsch (author of Ateret Tzvi and Nachalat Tzvi), son of
Yosef (author of Yesod Yosef), son of
Eliyahu.
By analyzing the years it seems that the connection to @יום טוב ליפמן הלר - תוספות יו"ט could be either through the mother, or grandmother, of @Tzvi Heller Kahana, of Polonne
Sources:
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A6%D7%91%D7%99_%D7%9B%D7%A5
פרקים לתולדות המחבר, בתוך: שולחן ערוך אורח חיים, עם הפירושים הקדומים ראשוני מפרשי השולחן ערוך אורח חיים, נחלת צבי ועטרת צבי. ירושלים: זיכרון אהרן, תשס"ג, עמ' 11–23.:
https://tablet.otzar.org/#/b/151440/p/1/t/1722245878920/fs/cGn9AcmJ...
I apologize for the text direction, but I'm using Hebrew Windows and even although I select the text direction in the response box, it doesn't help.

I have no further information regarding the proposed pedigree of Toldot Yakov. If I am not mistaken, this is the Shimshon Ostropolyer referred to: Rabbi Shimshon Hirsh Ben Pesach of Ostropoli I did not find Nachalat Tzvi or his father Yosef ben Eliahu on GENI.

Here is some more about the books: https://www.genazym.com/auction/620-grand-winter-event/lot-140-17/ and https://jewishmiscellanies.com/2021/04/20/sefer-nachalat-zvi-by-rab...

Calling on the panel of mavens for a little help:

Randy Schoenberg
Yigal Burstein
Private User
Malka Mysels
Kevin Lawrence Hanit
Itai Meshulam

Judging from the following excerpts from the book Nachalat Zvi, he was a well respected Rabbi in the Zaslav area (father was ABD Zaslav) in the early 1600s: check out the impressive list of Haskomos shown here: https://jewishmiscellanies.com/2021/04/20/sefer-nachalat-zvi-by-rab...

Can you help locate Rabbi Tsvi ben Yosef ben Eliahu Katz HaCohen on GENI? I would be surprised if this family unit is not already on GENI somewhere.

Amikam Mordechai Magen After reading the biographical information about R' Tzvi ben Yosef Katz here https://www.genazym.com/auction/620-grand-winter-event/lot-140-17/ I wonder whether there were any surviving offspring to connect to the proposed pedigree. Perhaps he remarried and produced more children after 1648?

Amikam Mordechai Magen Regarding the Toldot Yakov to Yesod Yosef connection from the book Chachmey Israel (חכמי ישראל), can you be sure that the Yesod Yosef referred to there is Yosef ben Eliahu Katz? I understand there have been several Yesod Yosef authors through the years.

Amikam Mordechai Magen For example, here is another possible Yesod Yosef: Rabbi Joseph Jacob "Yoske" Sobotka, auth. "Yesod Yosef"

Regarding the Toldot Yakov to Yesod Yosef connection from the book Chachmey Israel (חכמי ישראל):

I Know that there have been several Yesod Yosef authors through the years.

However, According to the Jewish encyclopedia https://www.daat.ac.il/encyclopedia/value.asp?id1=2288
Yakov Yosef was a descendat of Yosef Katz author of "Yesod Yosef":

בן למשפחת המקובלים רבי שמשון מאוסטרופולי, רבי יוסף כ"ץ בעל "יסוד יוסף", ולמשפחת רבי יו"ט ליפמאן הלר, בעל "תוספות יום טוב"

So, we have the "Katz" connection.

In addition, there is a circumstantial evidence: the son of yosef Katz and the father of Toldot Yakov Yosef, both were named Tzvi Katz.

That beeing said, I can't be sure.

According to Moshe David Chechik moishi.chechik@mail.huji.ac.il, Tzvi, son of Yosef katz, was born after 1590 and his brother Shmuel Katz/Orgeler was born before 1640. I guess that they were born sometime between 1610 and 1620. Therefore, it is possible that Tzvi ben Yosef Katz remarried and produced more children after 1648.

I guess that Chaim Samuel Orgler b. 1790:
Chaim Samuel Orgler
is the great grandson of Chaim Orgler d. before 1790.
The father-in-law of
Shmuel, son of Yosef Katz (and brother of Tzi Katz) who adopted his name.

Thanks for the additional data.

I notice that the Encyclopedia connects Toldot Yakov to Yesod Yosef (not to his son Tzvi) so perhaps the lineage from Yesod to Toldot does not go through Tzvi. This would also be consistent with the possibility that Tzvi's line was extinguished. If this is so, then the other son, Shmuel Katz could be the connector. Approximately 100 years separates their births, about 3-5 generations.

I have created a new unit on GENI in the hopes that the exposure may elicit some new data: Eliahu Katz, HaCohen

Thanks for making me aware of this previously unknown (to me) Kohenite lineage.