Sir John Savage, of Clifton and Stainesby

• Sir John Savage, Bailiff of the Forest of Macclesfield, Chamberlain of Middlewich [1,2]
• M, #13933, b. between 1401 and 1410, d. 29 June 1463
• Father: Sir John Savage, Bailiff of the Forest of Macclesfield, Constable of Halton Castle, Chamberlain of Middlewich [3,4] b. c 1378, d. 1 Aug 1450
• Mother: Maud Swynnerton [3,4] b. c 1370, d. bt 8 Jun 1414 - 1424
• Sir John Savage, Bailiff of the Forest of Macclesfield, Chamberlain of Middlewich was born between 1401 and 1410 at of Clifton, Macclesfield, Brereton, & Great & Little Barrow, Cheshire, England; Age 40+ in 1450.[3,2]
• He married Eleanor Brereton, daughter of Sir William Brereton and Anyll Venables, before 1423;
• They had 1 son (Sir John) and 2 daughters (Margery, wife of Edmund Legh, & of Thomas Leycester; & Margaret).[3,2]
• Sir John Savage, Bailiff of the Forest of Macclesfield, Chamberlain of Middlewich died on 29 June 1463.[3,2]
• Family: Eleanor Brereton b. c 1388
• Children:
  • Margaret Savage+[3]
  • Margery Savage+[3]
  • Sir John Savage, Mayor of Chester+[3,2] b. c 1423, d. 22 Nov 1495
• Citations
• 1.[S3824] Unknown author, Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, 4th Ed., by F. L. Weis, p. 111; The Ancestry of Dorothea Poyntz, by Ronny O. Bodine, p. 30.
• 2.[S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 491.
• 3.[S5] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 638.
• 4.[S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 490.
• From: http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p464.htm#i...

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• John SAVAGE (Sir)
• Born: ABT 1410
• Died: 29 Jun 1463
• Father: John SAVAGE (Sir)
• Mother: Maud De SWYNNERTON
• Married: Eleanor BRERETON (dau. of William Brereton and Angela Venables)
• Children:
  • 1. John SAVAGE (Sir Knight)
  • 2. Alice SAVAGE
  • 3. Ellen SAVAGE
  • 4. Margaret SAVAGE
  • 5. Margery SAVAGE
• From: http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/SAVAGE.htm#John SAVAGE (Sir)4

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• Children. 718,721 Children of Sir John Save of Cliffton, Knight [sic: Esquire] and Elizabeth Brereton, daughter of Sir William Brereton, Knight: Sir John Savage, Knight, married Katherine Stanley Eleanor Savage, married Sir Piers Leigh, of Lyme, Knight (Boyer's The Medieval Ancestors of Robert Abell places her as the daughter of the following John Savage and Katherine Stanley, who is given as her brother here, pg 215) Helein Savage, married to Peter Warberton of Arley, Esquire(Boyer's The Medieval Ancestors of Robert Abell places her as the daughter of the previous John Savage and Maude Swynnarton, pg 214) Elizabeth Savage, married to John Leake, of Sutton, Derbyshire. (Boyer's The Medieval Ancestors of Robert Abell places her as the daughter of the following John Savage and Katherine Stanley, who is given as her brother here, pg 215)

Children listed in Boyer's The Medieval Ancestors of Robert Abell , pgs. 214 with a reference to Omerod's History of Cheshire: John Savage, son and heir, married Katherine Stanley Margaret Savage, married 1st, John Maxfield, married 2nd, perhaps, Randle Mainwaring of Carincham, third son of Randle Mainwaring of Over Poever [note says that second marriage needs proof and the Visitation of Cheshire in 1580 (pg. 203-204) gives her as the wife Sir William Stanley of Hooton] Jane Savage, married John Hanford

• Background Information. 713 John Savage, of Clifton, esquire, son and heir of Sir John, married__________

• and had issue: John Savage son and heir; Margery, a daughter married to Edmund Legh of Baggiley in Cheshire who died and she married Thomas Lycester of Nether Tabley; Margaret, another daughter married John Maxfeld, and afterward she married Randle Manwaring of Carincham, the third son of Randle Manwaring of Over Peover. ~Ormerod's History of the County Palatine and City of Chester, vol. I, p. 713
• Ormerod gives her name to be Elizabeth de Brerton, daughter of William de Brerton on his pedigree for the Brerton and Hold of Brereton, Vol. III, p. 88-89

John married Elena de Brereton, daughter of Sir William, Lord of Brereton and Anyill de Venables of Kinderton 526,527,713,718 (Elena de Brereton was born in Brenton, England.)

D: I171563 Name: Sir John [III @] de Savage Sex: M Birth: 1403 in Clifton, Cheshire, England Death: 29 JUN 1463 in Clifton, Cheshire, England Note: Title: of Clifton Sir

Father: John [II @ >] de Savage b: 1375 in Clifton, Cheshire, England Mother: Maud (Matilda) [@ <>] de Swynnerton b: 1384 in Swynnerton, Staffordshire, England

Marriage 1: Eleanor or Elizabeth [@] de Brereton b: ABT 1406 in England

• Children:
  • John [IV @] de Savage b: 1422 in Clifton, Cheshire, England
  • Margaret [@] de Savage b: ABT 1425 in Clifton, Cheshire, England

Marriage 2: Mary Daniell b: ABT 1420

• Children
  • Alice (Dulcia) [@] de Savage b: 1448 in Clifton, Cheshire, England

source:

___________________________

• 'Savage02'
• A. John Savage of Clifton and Stainesby
• m. Elizabeth (or Elenor) Brereton (dau of Sir William Brereton of Brereton) named by Elizabeth by Armstrong, Elenor by Visitation, not named by Ormerod/BE1883
  • i. Sir John Savage of Clifton (b c1422, d 22.11.1495)
  • m. Catherine Stanley (dau of Thomas Stanley, 1st Lord, sister of Thomas, 1st Earl of Derby)
    • a. Sir John Savage of Clifton (dvp Bologne)
    • m. Dorothy Vernon (dau of Sir Ralph Vernon)
      • (1) Sir John Savage of Clifton 'of Frodsham', Sheriff of Worcestershire (d 02.03.1527)
      • m. Anne Bostock .... etc.
• 'Note A. There is much confusion regarding the generation-attribution of various of the daughters of various of the John Savages of Clifton. We have tried to use dates and common sense to attribute them correctly but where there is doubt we prefer to show them a generaton earlier rather than later as otherwise people may presume an additional maternal line that turns out to be irrelevant. However, whilst some time was spent on this, more time is needed to gain full comfort on it so this is all subject to review. Any comments on this, from anyone who has studied the matter, would be welcome!
  • * .... etc.
    • k. Elizabeth Savage see Note C below, shown by Armstrong a generation earlier
    • m. John Leeke or Leake of Sutton (son of William of Longford)
    • l. ...etc.
    • Note C. Armstrong shows 2 daughters for John & Katherine: Elizabeth (m. Sir John Hampden) & Alice (m. Sir William Brereton. Ormerod & BE1883 both show 5 daughters: Ellen (m. Peter Legh of Lyme), Katherine (m. Thomas Legh of Adlington), Margaret (m. Edmund Trafford), Alice (m. Roger Pilkington) - see Ann below, a generation earlier) & Elizabeth (m. John Leeke). Visitation shows 6 daughters: unnamed (m. Sir THomas Waterton), Elizabeth (m. _ Leake, unnamed (m. Sir Edward Trafford sb Edmund, husband of Margaret?), Elenor (m. Sir Piers Leigh), Katherin (m. Thomas Leigh of Adlington), Alice (m. Roger Pilkenton - see Ann below, a generation earlier).
  • ii. Eleanor Savage see Note D below
  • m. (1467) Sir Piers Leigh of Lyme
  • iii. Elizabeth Savage m. John Leake, see Note D below, shown a generation later
  • iv. Helen Savage .... etc.
  • Note D. Armstrong mentions 6 daughter of John & Elizabeth: Eleanor (m. Sir Piers Leigh of Lyme), Elizabeth (m. John Leake - we show a generation later), Helein .... etc.
• From: Stirnet.com ________________________________

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References

• The English Baronetage Containing a Genealogical and Historical ..., Volume 3. “Leicester, of Tabley.” Page 139. GoogleBooks The second wife of Thomas Leycester, was, Margery, the widow of Edmund Legh, of Baggilegh, Esq; and daughter of Sir John Savage, of Clifton, near Halton, in Cheshire : she was married to Thomas Leycester, 17 Edw. IV. 1477, and by him had issue, Arthur Leycester, and Geoffrey, living 1508.

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John Savage of Clifton, Cheshire.

Knyghts made at Blackheath fielde anno 12 of the Kinge on seint Botolphs day, ye 17 of June Anno Dni 1497, agaynst y^ comons of Cornwail.
Sir Edward Blount
Sir Wm. de La Poole, brother
to Edmd. de La Poole, Erie of Suffolk, called Lord Wm. of Suffolk
Sir Thos. Brandon
Sir John Savage
Sir Thomas Cornwall, Baron
Burford
Sir John Seymer
Sir Gyles a Bruges
Sir Edwarde Stanhope Sir Robt. Lovell
Sir Robt. Tyrrell
Sir John Ferrers
Sir Robt. Drury
Sir Henry Tay
Sir John Husse
Sir John Rodney
Sir John Montgomery Sir Richard Pudsey
Sir John Darell of Kent Sir Edmund Arundell Sir Wm. Meyring
Sir John Peche Sir Thomas Digby
Sir John Hungerforde
Sir Robt. Payton
1 Sir George Taylboys
Sir Philippe Calthorpe Sir John Greene
Sir Roger Wentworthe Sir Robt. Constable Sir John Skipwith
Sir John Williams
Sir Rowland de Deylevylle
Sir Andrew de Trevisano, a Ve-
netian
Sir Lawrence Aylmer

References

• https://cybergata.com/roots/739.htm cites
• Weis' The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, 98A-10, Sir John Savage of Clifton m. Elizabeth or Eleanor, daughter of Sir William de Brereton. 348
• ~The Ancient and Noble Family of Savage, p. 20, married to Elizabeth, daughter of Sir William Brereton, of Brereton, Knight. 718
• ~The Visitation of Cheshire in the Year 1580, pp. 203, married to Elenor, daughter of Sir william Breton 526
• ~Ormerod's History of the County Palatine and City of Chester, vol. I, p. 713 John Savage, of Clifton, esquire, son and heir of Sir John, married__________* and had issue: John Savage son and heir; Margery, a daughter married to Edmund Legh of Baggiley in Cheshire who died and she married Thomas Lycester of Nether Tabley; Margaret, another daughter married John Maxfeld, and afterward she married Randle Manwaring of Carincham, the third son of Randle Manwaring of Over Peover.www.findagrave.com

John Savage
BIRTH 1401
DEATH 29 Jun 1463 (aged 61–62)
BURIAL
St. Michael's & All Angels Churchyard
Macclesfield, Cheshire East Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England
PLOT Savage Chapel
MEMORIAL ID 81555087

Family Members
Parents
John Savage
1370–1450
Maude Matilda De Swynnerton Savage
1365–1415

Spouse
Elizabeth Eleanor De Brereton Savage
1406–1446

Siblings
Margaret Savage Dutton
1407–1450

Children
John Savage
1422–1495

Pedigree

Stirnet - 'Savage02'

• 1. Sir John Savage of Clifton (d 01.08.1450) m. (before 1409) Maud Swinnerton (dau/heir of Sir Robert Swinnerton of Barrow, Rushton & Austenfield)
  • A. John Savage of Clifton and Stainesby m. Elizabeth (or Elenor) Brereton (dau of Sir William Brereton of Brereton) named Elizabeth by Armstrong, Elenor by Visitation, not named by Ormerod/BE1883
    • v. Ann Savage see Note D below & Note C above, Ormerod, BE1883 & Visitation show an Alice (m. Roger Pilkington) a generation later m. Sir Roger Pilkington'

Family

Stirnet - 'Brereton01'

• ((1)) Sir William Brereton of Brereton (b 14.02.1349, d 10.1.1426) m1. (1386) Angella or Anilla or Emily Venables (dau of Hugh Venables)
  • ((A)) William Brereton (dvp) m. Alice Corbett (sister of Richard Corbett of Leighton)
  • ((B)) Elizabeth Brereton m. Sir John Savage
  • ((C)) Margery Brereton m. Richard Patten, later Wanflet of Wanflet
  • ((D))+ other issue - Hugh, Matthew

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Notes

“Roger Draycote m Catherine Savage.” Geoff Vowles. May 31, 2023. < SGM >

According to the 1663-4 visitation of Staffordshire by Richard St George under Draycott of Paynesley, Roger Draycote esq married 'Catherine , da of John Savage of Maxfield, co Chester, Esq'.

The question of who John Savage her father was has arisen here before, see a post by Peter Sutton 27/4/2004 in the thread on GenMed concerning 'ancestors at Agincourt', however there do not appear to be any records of Catherine. She was not Katherine daughter of Sir John Savage a generation later, - she who married Thomas Legh or Leigh. Both Ormerod and the Cheshire visitations are notably short on the children of the three John Savages of Rocksavage, Clifton and Macclesfield (old name Maxfield) father, son and grandson . I note that of the three Johns the first and last were knights but the middle John who m Eleanor Brereton was pointedly 'Esq', a fact noted in a post by Douglas Richardson in the thread Dulcia Savage Bold thus fitting the description of him in the Staffordshire visitation.

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/qWhfz5Eh5eE/m/...
I take this as meaning that this John and Eleanor Brereton are the likely parents of Catherine Savage moreover this fits with their likely timeline.

Does anyone know more about the children of John Savage esq who married Eleanor Brereton or the origins of Catherine Savage who married Roger Draycott?