Papia de Normandie

Papia II de Normandie

Parents: Richard I 'Sans-Peur' & his mistress (Papia)

Spouse: Gilbert de Saint-Valéry

Child: Bernard de Saint-Valéry

LINKS

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY.htm

13. daughter . Guillaume of Jumièges records that Richard had two daughters “ex concubinis”, but does not name them[151]. same person as…? [PAPIA ). Robert de Torigny names "Papiam uxorem Walteri [error for Gilberti?] de Sanct Walerico et Aeliz uxorem Ranulfi Vicecomitis de Baioeis" as the two daughters of Duke Richard III (see below)[152]. In the case of Papia, it is clearly chronologically impossible for her to have been Duke Richard III´s daughter assuming that it is correct, as asserted by Orderic Vitalis[153], that her grandson, Richard de Heugleville, helped Guillaume II Duke of Normandy in the 1054 rebellion when he was already old enough for Geoffroy de Neufmarché to be his son-in-law. Orderic Vitalis records that “Gulbertus cognomento advocatus de Sancto Gualerico” married “filiam Ricardi ducis”[154]. It is not clear from this text to which duke Richard he refers, but in a later passage the same source confirms her name Papia daughter of "Ricardi iunioris ducis Normannorum" (which does suggest that he too is referring to Duke Richard III)[155]. Neither of the passages in Orderic Vitalis names Papia's mother. It is tempting to imagine that she was the second wife of Duke Richard II of the same name. However, it is also chronologically inconsistent with the 1054 references to Papia's grandson for Papia to have been the daughter of Duke Richard II. Assuming that all this speculation is correct, Papia must have been born in the early years of the 11th century and therefore, if she was the daughter of any Duke Richard, her father must have been Duke Richard I. m GILBERT Advocate of Saint Valéry, son of ---.]

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY.htm#PapiaMGauthierSaintValery

MEDIEVAL LANDS

GILBERT, son of --- . Avocat de Saint-Valéry .

m PAPIA, illegitimate daughter of RICHARD I Comte [de Normandie] & his mistress --- ([1000/05]-).

Guillaume de Jumièges records that Duke Richard had two daughters by his concubines but does not name them[847].

It is not certain that Papia, wife of Gilbert de Saint-Valéry, was the daughter of Richard I.

Orderic Vitalis names her father "Duke Richard", although it is not clear from the text to which duke Richard he refers, and confirms her name Papia in a different passage[848]. The second passage elaborates that Papia was daughter of "Ricardi iunioris ducis Normannorum".

Some authors have taken this to refer to Duke Richard III, presumably inspired by Robert de Torigny who names "Papiam uxorem Walteri de Sanct Walerico et Aeliz uxorem Ranulfi vicecomitis de Baioeis" as the two daughters of Duke Richard III[849]. This is, however, chronologically impossible assuming that it is correct, as asserted by Orderic Vitalis[850], that Papia's grandson, Richard de Heugleville, helped Guillaume II Duke of Normandy in the 1054 rebellion when he was already old enough for Geoffroy de Neufmarché to be his son-in-law.

Neither of the passages in Orderic Vitalis names Papia's mother. It is tempting to imagine that she was Duke Richard II's second wife of the same name. However, it is also chronologically inconsistent with the 1054 references to Papia's grandson for Papia to have been the daughter of duke Richard II

Assuming that all this speculation is correct, Papia must have been born in the early years of the 11th century and therefore she must have been the daughter of Richard I.

Gilbert & his wife had one child:

1. BERNARD de Saint-Valéry . Orderic Vitalis names him, gives his parentage, and names his two sons[851]. The Chronique de Normandie, based on le Roman de Rou, names "le sire de S. Wallery" among those who took part in the conquest of England in 1066[852].

m ---. The name of Bernard's wife is not known. Bernard & his wife had two children:

a) GAUTHIER de Saint-Valéry . Orderic Vitalis names him and his father851. William of Tyre names "Walterius de Sancto Valerius Bernardusque filius eius" among those present at the capture of Nikaia in 1097[853].

m ---. The name of Gauthier's wife is not known. Gauthier & his wife had one child:

i) BERNARD de Saint-Valéry . William of Tyre names "Walterius de Sancto Valerius Bernardusque filius eius" among those present at the capture of Nikaia in 1097[854]. Orderic Vitalis also names him as son of Gauthier, with whom he was present at the capture of Nikaia in 1097[855].

b) RICHARD de Saint-Valéry . Orderic Vitalis names him and his father, specifying that he "for many years fought for the duke of Normandy his great uncle" who arranged his marriage[856]. Orderic also says that Richard established "a borough on the Scie, in the place formerly called Isneauville, which he named Auffay". He supported Guillaume II Duke of Normandy against the rebellion of Guillaume d'Arques in [1054][857].

m as her second husband, ADA, widow of HERLUIN de Heugleville, daughter of ---. She is named wife of Richard by Orderic Vitalis, who also names her father857. Richard & his wife had two children:

i) GILBERT d'Auffay . He is named as son of Richard by Orderic Vitalis, who also names his wife, father-in-law, and their three children[858].

ii) ADA de Heugleville . She is named as daughter of Richard by Orderic Vitalis, who also names her husband who helped his father-in-law during the rebellion of Guillaume d'Arques[859].

m (before 1054) GEOFFROY de Neufmarché, son of THURKILL de Neufmarché & his wife ---.

Papia was born before 996.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p58.htm#i7146 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p237.htm#i27033 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )