Mattfried II, Graf von Eifelgau

Matfrid II (Manfred VI), Graf von Eifelgau- Son of - Matfrid I (Manfred V), Graf von Eifelgau-Orleans

It took a while and many hours of frustration, prayer and persistence. Many times you want to throw your hands up in the air and just quit but that is when 'Passion' takes over. Genealogy, is mainly a jigsaw puzzle to be solved by logical and deductive reasoning.

After spending the past two weeks cross referencing every suggested, possible and/or logical relation, sifting historical data and crunching all the numbers... It finally became apparent, Mattfrid II, Graf von Eifelgau-Orleans was the only logical person to be the father of Mattfrid I, von Wied.

Matfried III, von Wied (Engersgau, 1093-1123), had, yet another road block, in this line. He (Matfrid III) had, from multiple sources, three fathers to chose from: [A] Ruckerus von Wied; [B] Wigger II von Engersgau; [C] Richwin IV, von Wied.

Having dealt with 'Ruckerus' and deduced that, while he could be father, it was more likely,Richwin III, was his father. Then in the 'Medieval Germany: An Encyclopedia' (ref. 2b), it made the claim Mattfried III ( von Wied, also Engersgau ) was the son of Wigger II von Engersgau- to justify the 'Engersgau' surname. It also, 'suggested' (Pg. 824) that 'He' (Mattfried III) was related to the Matfrid's (d'Orleans) but through a matrilineal line.

This is ruled out, with all the evidence compiled, that it's not only likely but logical that Mattfried III (von Wied-Engersgau) was related to the Matfrid's (d'Orleans) but instead through the patrilinal line.

Matfrid I, von Wied and Matfrid III von Eifelgau (d'Orleans) dates are very similar.

Wikapedia states: "The third Matfrid, presumed son of the second, was active in the period 867 to 878"
(ref. 1)

In the, 'Medieval Germany: An Encyclopedia', it states: "Matfrid III, the son of Matfrid II, flourished 867-878 as a count in Lotharingia and also in Eifelgau. He appears to have property in the part of Lothar II's realm that went to Charles the Bald in 870, probably in the Waberngau and in the Verduner Gau. In 877, with other magnates he was appointed at Queirzy as counselor to Charle's son, as often as he should be in the Meuse region. Matfrid III followed his father as lay abbot St. Vaast, and died about 883." (ref. 2b)

Matfrid I, von Wied is cited to have been born between 850-860 and that he died around 886 that is only a three year difference between both Matfrid's date of death. Neither Matrfrid (in question) has a specific or set date for their death. Due to the lack of information and/or evidence, there's really not a good reason, to believe they are or were different people.

(Well, unless your a descendant of the Hapsburg's :P)

Reference 'Alternative Genealogy' Below

Matfrid I, Matfrid II d'Orleans and Matfrid von Eifelgau (Wied) Descendant Chart

1) Famille et pouvoir dans le monde franc (VIIe-Xe siecle): Essai d'anthropologie sociale (Histoire ancienne et medievale) (French Edition)

By Regine Le Jan

===LINK:===

http://books.google.com/books?id=v8vwhSwhWogC&pg=PA444&lpg=PA444&dq...

Reference Sources

1a) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/949V-C6X : accessed 2013-05-28), entry for Matfrid II von Eifelgau Graf.

2a) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/3M72-QHM : accessed 2013-05-28), entry for Mattfried Graf /VonEifelgau/.

3a) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/393M-GNH : accessed 2013-05-28), entry for Matfried II /de Orleans/ * Graf im Eifelgau & Comte de Orleans.

Alternative Genealogy

( Mattfried I, Graf von Wied - Son of - Mattfried II, Comte d'Orleans - Son of - Mattfried I, Comte d'Orleans )

1b) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/3M72-DQH : accessed 2013-05-28), entry for Mattfried I /VonWied/.

2b) Medieval Germany: An Encyclopedia

edited by John M. Jeep

===LINK:=== http://books.google.com/books?id=0Sdo1gNF4D8C&pg=PA1497&lpg=PA1497&...

3b) Genealogy Online / Stamboom Kyle Wilempse : Wigger Ii von Engersgouw

-http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKISH%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc371156050
a) [MATFRIED [II] ([820]-after 18 Sep 882). A close family connection between Matfried [II] and Matfried [I] is suggested by the name. This is confirmed by the letter dated 878 from Pope John VIII to "Mactefrido illustri comiti" referring to Engeltrud wife of Boso (who was the daughter of Matfried [I]%29 as "proxime vestre"[263], although this wording suggests a more remote relationship than father and son. "Hlotharius…imperator augustus" granted property "in pago Lugdunense" to "cuidam vassallo…Immoni", at the request of "Matfredus…comes vel ministerialis noster", by charter dated 15 Dec 843[264]. Graf von Eifel: "Hlotharius…imperator augustus" granted property "in pago Eiflense…in villa…Bettinga" to "cuidam fideli nostro Fulcrado", at the request of "Matfridus…ministerialis noster", by charter dated 17 Feb 844[265]. "Hlotharius…imperator augustus" granted property "in pago Riboariense in comitatu Iuliacense" to "vassallo…Matfredi…comitis, Hrotgario", at the request of "ministerialis nostri Matfridi…comitis", by charter dated 7 May 846[266]. "Hlotharius…imperator augustus" donated property "in pago Eiflinse in comitatu Matfridi" to Kloster Prüm by charter dated 28 Jan 855[267]. "Hlotharius…rex" donated property "in pago Eiflinse in comitatu Matfridi" at the request of "Adalardus et Matfridus…comites" to "vassallo præfati Matfridi Otberto" by charter dated 28 Jun 856[268]. An agreement between Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks and his brother Ludwig II "der Deutsche" King of the East Franks dated Jun 860 names "nobilis ac fidelibus laicis…Chuonradus, Evrardus, Adalardus, Arnustus, Warnarius, Liutfridus, Hruodolfus, Erkingarius, Gislebertus, Ratbodus, Arnulfus, Hugo, item Chuonradus, Liutharius, Berengarius, Matfridus, Boso, Sigeri, Hartmannus, Liuthardus, Richuinus, Wigricus, Hunfridus, Bernoldus, Hatto, Adalbertus, Burchardus, Christianus, Leutulfus, Hessi, Herimannus, item Hruodulfus, Sigehardus"[269]. An agreement dated 14 Jun 877 of Emperor Charles II "le Chauve", presumably written with his own death in mind, names "Arnulfus comes, Gislebertus, Letardus, Matfridus, Widricus, Gotbertus, Adalbertus, Ingelgerus, Rainerus" as those willing to support the emperor's son if he travels across the Meuse[270]. Pope John VIII wrote a letter to "Mactefrido illustri comiti" dated 878 referring to the property of the two daughters of Count Boso in upper Italy & his wife Engeltrud "proxime vestre"[271]. "Hildebertus filius quondam Berengarii comitis" donated property "res…mee in comitatu Vuabrinse prope fluvio…Cherus villam…Beuram" for "germano meo Berengario" to Verdun Sainte-Vanne by charter dated 18 Sep 882, subscribed by "Stephanus comes, Matfridus comes, Witpertus comes"[272].

m ---. The name of Matfried's wife is not known.] Count Matfried [II] & his wife had one possible child: