Héribert I de Vermandois, comte de Vermandois, Senlis, Péronne

https://familypedia.wikia.org/wiki/Herbert_I_de_Vermandois_(c848-907)

Herbert I of Vermandois (c. 848/850 – 907), Count of Vermandois, lord of Senlis, of Péronne and of Saint Quentin, was the son of Pepin of Vermandois

Stewart Baldwin's Henry Project page on Herbert I,Count of Vermandois

Heribert I

• Count of Vermandois, 896-900×6.
• Count of Soissons and lay-abbot of Saint-Crépin, before 898-900×6.

Heribert first appears in 877, when he and his brother Pépin were among those sent by emperor Charles the Bald to prepare for a meeting between the pope and emperor ["Quapropter praemisit Odacrum secundi scrinii notarium, Goiramnum comitem et Pippinum atque Heribertum, ad procuranda ipsius papae servitia." Ann. Bertin., s.a. 877, 136].

In 893, he and Pépin are found with Charles the Simple upon his elevation as king ["Odone rege in Aquitania commemorata, Francorum principes ex permaxima parte ab eo deficiunt, et agnetibus Folcone episcopo, Heriberto et Pippino comitibus, in Remorum civitate Carolus filius Hludowici, ex Adalheide regina, ut supra meminimus, natus, in regnum elevatur." Regino, s.a. 892 (misdated), MGH SS 1: 605].

In 896, Heribert killed Raoul, brother of count Baldwin II [Ann. Vedast., s.a., 896, 78], who had been expelled earlier that year from the countship of Vermandois, and it is probably in this year that Heribert became count of Vermandois and lay-abbot and Saint-Quentin.

Heribert last appears in 900 (the year that Annales Vedastini end), and he was killed not long afterward by a follower of Baldwin II of Flanders.

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Date of Birth: Unknown.

Place of Birth: Unknown.

Date of Death: 900×906.

• Regino of Prüm, writing ca. 906, in comments added to the obituary of king Bernard of Italy under the year 818, mentions that Bernard's grandson Heribert had killed count Rodulf, son of Baldwin, in Regino's own time, and that Heribert was killed not long after by a supporter (also named Baldwin) of Rodulf's brother Baldwin [II] of Flanders ["qui Heribertus Rodulfum comitem, filium Balduini interfecit nostris temporibus, et non multum post occisus est a Balduino, satellite Balduini, fratris Rodulfi, qui Balduinus hucusque in Flandris ducatum tenet." Regino, s.a. 818, MGH SS 1: 567]

Place of Death: Unknown.

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Father: Pepin/Pippin, d. after 840, count (near Paris).

Mother: Unknown.

• The conjecture that she was a member of the "Nibelungen" family (descendents of Childrebrand, son of Charles Martel) is based on the fact that Heribert I's predecessors in some of his possessions belonged to that family, and on the presence of the name Heribert in that family [see Werner (1960), 101-6].

Spouses: Unknown.

• See the Commentary section.

Children (very probable):

• It is rather surprising to see the extent to which modern scholars have glossed over the lack of direct documentation for the relationship between Heribert I and Heribert II. In fact, I did not notice this gap in documentation until the question of documentation for the parentage of Heribert II was raised on the soc.genealogy.medieval/GEN-MEDIEVAL internet newsgroup/mailing list on 13 September 2005 by Steve Barnhoorn, and soon after discussed in more detail by Peter Stewart.
• Indeed, in his detailed critical study of this family, Karl Ferdinand Werner started his paper by indicating that the Carolingian descent was well documented ["Im Gegnsatz zu den meisten andern westfränkischen Fürstengeschlechtern stellt das Haus Vermandois der Forschung nicht das heikle Problem der Herkunft - zumindest nicht in Mannesstamm. Der karolingische Ursprung ist sicher bezeugt." Werner (1960), 87], followed by a footnote which did in fact document the descent of Heribert I from Charlemagne, but then just stated that Heribert II was a son of Heribert I, without offering any direct documentation there or elsewhere in the paper.
• Brandenburg (1964) and Settipani (1993), both of them sources which should state such documentation (or at least mention the lack thereof), state the link without documentation or further comment.
• The earliest source which would appear (at least at first glance) to offer such documentation is an eleventh century Angevin genealogical table, in which Adèle de Troyes, wife of count Geoffroy Grisegonelle of Anjou, is called a daughter of Robert, son of Heribert, son of another Heribert. [Poupardin (1900), 207; see also the page of Heribert's great-granddaughter Adèle, which shows the table] Unfortunately, there is a serious error which undermines this source (which is, of course, not comtemporary anyway). In this table, it is the elder Heribert who is stated to be the captor of king Charles the Simple, whereas that deed was actually performed by Heribert II. Because Heribert II did have a son named Heribert, the exact nature of the error remains unclear (is Robert being erroneously assigned as son of his own brother, or was the captor of Charles simply misidentified in an otherwise correct genealogy?), and this source is therefore not good evidence for the parentage of Heribert II.
• The strongest piece of indirect evidence for Heribert II's parentage is that he is found in possession of the lands which were also held by his namesake Heribert I, e.g. Soissons, Vermandois. Also of note is the statement of the annalist Flodoard that Heribert had a cousin (consobrinus) named Bernard ["..., et Heribertus comes Bernardum, consobrinum suum, cum aliis legatis consilium quod per illos agebatur, ut fertur, ignorantibus, ad Karolum dirigit." Flodoard, Annales, s.a. 923, 15].
• Since Heribert I had a brother named Bernard, this also gives good onomastic evidence. Thus, despite the lack of direct documentation for the relationship, it is very probable that Heribert II was the son and successor of Heribert I. (In the unlikely event that Heribert II was not a son of Heribert I, he would in that case almost certainly be a son of either Bernard or Pépin, brothers of Heribert I.)

1. Heribert II, b. say 880, d. 23 February 943, count of Meaux, Soissons, and Vermandois, and abbot of Saint-Crépin and Saint-Médard (Soissons), 900×7-943; m. before 907, Adèle, daughter of Robert of Neustria (later Robert I, king of France).

2. NN, m. Udo, count of Wetterau.

• An entry in Flodoard's annals for the year 946 shows that Udo (identified as a brother of Hermann) had married an amita of bishop Hugues, also mentioning Arnulf, who had married the bishop's sister ["Videns autem praesul Hugo obsidionem se tolerare non posse, neque tantae resistere multitudini, locutus est cum quibusdam principibus qui videbantur sibi esse amici, videlicet cum Arnulfo, qui ejus sororem, et Uddone, qui amitam ipsius habebat uxorem, sed et cum Hermanno, Uddonis fratre, quaesivit ab eis, quid sibi foret agendum." Flodoard, Annales, s.a. 946, 102].
• Since Hugues was a son of Heribert II and Arnulf (I of Flanders) was married to a daughter of Heribert II, Udo's wife would be a sister of Heribert, assuming that amita is to be interpreted in the usual sense as paternal aunt.
• The suggestion that her name was Cunégonde is an unverified conjecture [See Settipani (1993), 222-3; Jackman (1997), 36, 38].

Commentary

Falsely attributed wife (fictional): Berthe, daughter of Guerri (Wedricus), count of Morvois, and his wife Eva.

• The main basis of the claim is Historia Walciodorensis Monasterii, a very legendary account of the founder of Waulsort monastery, Ybert de Ribemont (Eilbertus, Elbertus), which includes a fabricated genealogy which, among other false claims, makes this Ybert a brother of count Heribert of Saint-Quentin, and states that Ybert and his brother Heribert were responsible for the famous capture of king Charles the Simple, thus clearly identifying Heribert as Heribert II.
• Eilbertus and comes Heribertus de Sancto Quintino are listed among the seven supposed sons of Ebroinus by his wife Berta, who brought Florennes to her husband as the daughter of Widricus and Eva. ["... Eius itaque pater comes Ebroinus fuit, vir armis strenuus. Hic armis strenuus et omni honestate preclarus. Iste igitur Ebroinus industria sua et virtute multa acquirens, filiam Wederici comitis et eius uxoris Evae, quae in nominis agnitione Berta nuncupabatur, sumpsit in coniugum, accipiens cum ea, dante ipso genitore atque genetrice, Florinas et quicquid ad eundem pagum Florinensem pertinet. ..." Hist. Walc. Monast., c. 1, MGH SS 14: 505; "... Iste autem Ebroinus ex prefati comitis Wederici et eius uxoris Evae filia, quae, ut superius prefati sumus, Berta dicebatur, septem habuit filios, qui terram longe lateque post decessionem patris tenuerunt hereditario iure et sibi prudentia sua multa acquisierunt. ..." Hist. Walc. Monast., c. 2, MGH SS 14: 505; "Primus itaque in ordine generationis come Eilbertus fuit, maior et natu et dignitate, secundus post hunc comes Uddo de Roix, deinde comes Heribertus de Sancto Quintino, Gerardus de Odenarde, comes Boso, comes Witerus et Macuardus venerabilis episcopus. ..." Hist. Walc. Monast., c. 3, MGH SS 14: 505-6; "Igitur anno ab incarnatione Domini nongentisimo vicesimo secundo Karolus rex Francorum captus ab Eilberto et fratre eius Heriberto usque ad Pernam et ab eisdem sub vinculis carceralis custodiae ibidem diebus multis religatur. ...", Hist. Walc. Monast., c. 5, MGH SS 14: 506].
• From this starting point, the "logic" on which this false claim is based is easy enough to see. It has been assumed by some authors that the sibling relationship between Ybert and Heribert is at least partly correct, i.e., through their mother. If this argument is accepted, then Ybert's mother Berthe becomes the wife of Heribert I [e.g., Chaume, 1: 543 (table VIII)]. However, the account of Historia Walciodorensis Monasterii is legendary, and attempts to deduce genealogical truths from such legends are not valid.
• Indeed, for a very different genealogical scenario based on the same legends, see the page of Wigeric, d. 916×9, count of Bidgau, where more details are included.

Falsely attributed daughter: Beatrix, m. Robert of Neustria (later Robert I, king of France).

• The claim that Robert married a sister of Heribert II appears occasionally from the twelfth century on ["Habebat enim idem Robertus sororem istius Herberti in conjugio; de qua ortus est Hugo Magnus." Historia Francorum Senonensis, MGH SS 9: 366; "..., a Herberto comite, cuius sororem predictus Robertus habebat in uxorem, ..." Ex Stephanni Normannico Dracone, i, 24, MGH SS 26: 157].
• However, since contemporary sources verify that Heribert II was married to Robert's daughter, these later accounts are more likely to be confused accounts of Heribert's marriage. Robert did have a wife named Beatrix, but she was not a daughter of Heribert [See Schwager (1994), Excurs 4, 406-9].

Conjectured daughter (existence doubtful): Adèle, m. Gebhard, count of Ulfgau.

• [Jackman (1990), 134-5, 178; Jackman (1997), 36, 38] The existence of this supposed daughter is based on a chain of arguments which will only be outlined here. It is closely related to the question of the parentage of Heribert, count of Kinziggau (d. 992) [for whom a page on this website is planned, but as yet unwritten].
• In what might be called the "orthodox" account of Heribert's parentage, he is a son of the above marriage of count Udo with a daughter of Heribert I, and there is no need to hypothesize another daughter as a wife of Gerhard (a first cousin of Udo).
• In what might be called the "alternate" account of Heribert's parentage (proposed notably by Armin Wolf and Donald Jackman), Heribert was a member of another branch of the Konradiner dynasty, a son of Konrad, son of Gebhard of Ulfgau. In this second case, another daughter of Heribert I is hypothesized (and identified with an Adela who appears on a Reichenau memorial list) in order to explain the appearance of the name Heribert in this branch of the Konradiner dynasty.
• Thus, in order to accept the existence of this daughter, one must first accept the "alternate" scenario of Heribert's parentage, and even then it is still no more than a conjecture.

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From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy Medlands page on Frankish Nobility (covering his marriage):

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKISH%20NOBILITY.htm#Pepindiedaf...

PEPIN [I], son of BERNARD I King of Italy [Carolingian] & his wife Cunegundis --- ([815]-after 850).

• Regino names "Pippinum" son of "Bernhardus filius Pippin rex Italiæ"[560].
• Seigneur de Péronne et de Saint-Quentin[561].
• Comte near Paris after 834.
• He supported Emperor Lothaire after the death of Emperor Louis I "le Pieux", despite having sworn allegiance to Charles II "le Chauve"[562].
• The Annales Bertiniani name "Ratholdus…episcopus, Bonifacius comes, Pippinus consanguineus imperatoris" as supporters of Emperor Louis I in 834[563].

m ---. The name of Pépin's wife is not known.

• Settipani suggests[564] that the wife of Comte Pépin was --- [du Vexin], daughter of THEODERIC, son of NIBELUNG Comte du Vexin, bearing in mind that Pépin's descendants inherited estates in the Vexin.

Comte Pépin & his wife had five children:

1. BERNARD [I] ([845]-[before 893]).

• Regino names (in order) "Bernardum, Pippinum et Heribertum" as the three children of "Pippinum"[565]. According to Italian authors[566], Bernard went to Italy and was the ancestor of the Bernardhengi. Settipani is sceptical about this, particularly as the names Pepin and Heribert are not found among the alleged descendants. He suggests that comte Bernard may be the same Bernard recorded as one of the executors of Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks in 877[567].
• "Adelelm et Bernard comtes de la region du Laonnais" donated property to Sainte-Marie de Laon as executors of the testament of Charles II "le Chauve" King of the Franks[568].

2. PEPIN [II] ([845]-after 28 Jan 893]).

• Regino names (in order) "Bernardum, Pippinum et Heribertum" as the three children of "Pippinum"[569].
• At the court of Emperor Charles “le Chauve” in 877[570], thereafter Comte to the north of Paris.
• Emperor Karl III confirmed a grant of property including "villamque in Pipenensi comitatatu quæ Nogenlis dicitur" to the church of Grandval by charter dated 20 Sep 884[571].
• Regino names "Folcone episcopo, Heriberto et Pippino comitibus in Remorum civitate" when recording that they supported the accession of Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks in 892 in opposition to King Eudes, but does not specify the relationship between Heribert and Pepin[572].

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3. HERIBERT ([850]-killed [900/6 Nov 907]).

Regino names (in order) "Bernardum, Pippinum et Heribertum" as the three children of "Pippinum", specifying that Heribert killed "Rodulfum comitem filium Balduini comitis"[573]. "Heribertus, Bernhardi frater" is named in the Vita Hludowicis Imperatoris[574].

Regino names "Folcone episcopo, Heriberto et Pippino comitibus in Remorum civitate" when recording that they supported the accession of Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks in 892 in opposition to King Eudes, but does not specify the relationship between Heribert and Pepin[575].

Heribert became Comte de Vermandois in 896.

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4. [CUNEGUNDIS.

• Cunegundis was cited in a list of relations of comte Odo, son-in-law of Héribert I Comte de Vermandois, without any indication of how she may have been related to the family[576].]

5. [daughter .

• [m firstly BERENGER Comte [de Bayeux], son of --- (-13 Dec [892 or after]).
• The necrology of Le Mans Cathedral records the death "Id Dec" of "Beringerius comes"[577]. One way of reconciling the apparently contradictory sources which recount the origin of Poppa, wife of Rollo of Normandy, is that her mother married firstly Berengar Comte de Bayeux and secondly Guy Comte de Senlis. There is no proof that this is correct.]
• m [secondly] WIDO [Guy] Comte de Senlis , son of ---. [One possible child] [of second marriage].

References:

• [560] Reginonis Chronicon 818, MGH SS I, p. 567.
• [561] Rösch, p. 86.
• [562] Nithard, Historiarum libri IV, ed. P. Lauer (Paris, 1926), cited in Settipani, C. and Kerrebrouck, P. van (1993) La préhistoire des Capétiens 481-987, 1ère partie, Mérovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens (Villeneuve d'Ascq), p. 214.
• [563] Annales Bertiniani I 834.
• [564] Settipani, C. and Kerrebrouck, P. van (1993) La préhistoire des Capétiens 481-987, 1ère partie, Mérovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens (Villeneuve d'Ascq), p. 215.
• [565] Reginonis Chronicon 818, MGH SS I, p. 567.
• [566] Pocchetino, G. (1922), 'I Pipinidi in Italia (sec. VIII-XII)', Archivio storico Lombardo, 54 (1927), pp. 1-43, and Violante, C. (1974) 'Quelques caractéristiques des structures familiales en Lombardie, Emilie et Toscane aux XI et XII siècles', Famille et parenté dans l'Occident medieval (Rome), pp. 87-147, 128, both cited in Settipani (1993), p. 215.
• [567] Settipani (1993), p. 215 footnote 177.
• [568] Bourgeois, E. (1885) Le capitulaire de Kiersy-sur-Oise (Paris), p. 23.
• [569] Reginonis Chronicon 818, MGH SS I, p. 567.
• [570] Settipani (1993), p. 215.
• [571] D Karl 108, p. 172, headed "verunechtet" in the compilation.
• [572] Reginonis Chronicon 892, MGH SS I, p. 605.
• [573] Reginonis Chronicon 818, MGH SS I, p. 567.
• [574] Vita Hludowici Imperatoris, MGH SS II, p. 633.
• [575] Reginonis Chronicon 892, MGH SS I, p. 605.
• [576] Settipani (1993), p. 217.
• [577] Nécrologe du Mans, p. 329.

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From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Northern France (covering his married life):

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#HeribertIdied...

HERIBERT [I], son of PEPIN [Carolingian] Seigneur de Péronne et de St Quentin, Comte near Paris ([848/850]-murdered [900/6 Nov 907]).

Regino names (in order) "Bernardum, Pippinum et Heribertum" as the three children of "Pippinum", specifying that Héribert killed "Rodulfum comitem filium Balduini comitis"[1400]. "Heribertus, Bernhardi frater" is named in the Vita Hludowicis Imperatoris[1401].

He was at the court of Emperor Charles II “le Chauve” in 877.

• Comte de Soissons 886/898.
• Abbé de St Crépin.
• Comte de Meaux et de Madrie 888/889[1402].
• He became Comte de Vermandois in 896.

The Annales Vedastini record that "Rodulfus comes" disrupted the peace in 896 and took the property of "Heribertus et Erkingerus", that "Odo rex" besieged "castrum sancti Quintini et Peronam" and expelled Raoul's supporters, and that Héribert killed Raoul[1403].

Comte Héribert opposed Eudes King of France, but was reconciled with the king in 897, an event which may have been confirmed by the marriage of Héribert's daughter to the king's nephew Robert[1404].

Baudouin II Count of Flanders attacked Vermandois, was driven out by 900 but reconquered it and killed Héribert [I] Comte de Vermandois in revenge for his brother's death[1405].

m [LIETGARDIS], daughter of --- (-27 May ----).

• The name of the wife of Comte Héribert is not known. However, a "Comtesse Liedgardis", different from the daughter of Comte Héribert [II], is named who could have been his wife[1406]. If this is correct, the necrology of Reims which records the death "VI Kal Jun" of "Letgardis comitissa"[1407], may refer to the same person[1408].
• According to the Histoire de Guise, Albert Comte de Vermandois constructed the abbey of Saint-Michel at Rochefort in 945 "d'accord avec la comtesse Hérésinde sa femme", while in 947 Hérésinde founded the nearby Benedictine convent of Bucilly[1409]. The source assumes that this refers to Albert Comte de Vermandois, but his supposed marriage to Hérésinde is not mentioned by Settipani[1410].
• According to the introduction to the Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Bucilly, Bucilly was founded by "Gerberge, femme d'Albert I Comte de Vermandois" although it notes that "certains auteurs ont voulu faire remonter [sa foundation] à la libéralité de Hersinde femme d'Herbert Comte de Vermandois morte en 901"[1411]. No other reference has been found to Hérésinde being the wife of Comte Héribert ]I].

Comte Héribert [I] & his wife had four children:

1. HERIBERT [II] ([880]-23 Feb 943, bur Saint Quentin).

• None of the sources so far consulted states explicitly that Heribert [II] and his sister Beatrix were the children of Heribert [I] but this looks probable.
• He succeeded his father in [900/907] as Comte de Meaux, de Soissons et de Vermandois.

2. BEATRIX de Vermandois ([880/83]-after 26 Mar 931).

• None of the sources so far consulted state explicitly that Heribert [II] and his sister Beatrix were the children of Heribert [I] but this looks probable.
• Her birth date range is estimated from her eldest daughter giving birth to her own first child in [915].
• The Historia Francorum Senonensis records that "sororem Herberti" was the wife of "Robertus princeps" who rebelled against Charles III "le Simple" King of France[1412]. Guillaume de Jumièges records that Duke Robert's wife was the sister of Héribert, and that the couple had a son named Hugues[1413].
• The marriage may have been arranged to confirm her father's reconciliation with Eudes King of France, who was her husband's uncle[1414]. Werner suggests [897] as the date of the marriage, on the assumption that it followed the political reconciliation between Béatrix's father and Robert's uncle[1415].
• As discussed in relation to Robert's first marriage in the document CAPET, there is a possibility that Robert's first wife was still alive in 907, which would of course mean that Béatrix's marriage took place after that date.
• m ([897]%29 as his second wife, ROBERT Marquis en Neustrie, son of ROBERT “le Fort” Marquis en Neustrie & his wife --- ([860]-killed in battle near Soissons 15 Jun 923). Comte de Paris 898. He was elected 22 Jun 922 as ROBERT I King of France.

3. [daughter [ADELA] .

• Jackman suggests[1416] that the wife of Graf Gebhard [Konradiner] was the daughter of Héribert [I] Comte de Vermandois, although this appears supported only by onomastic indications. The name of Graf Gebhard's wife is not given explicitly in the sources. However, an "Adela" is named in a name-list in the Reichenau memorial book dated [926/32] which appears to include members of the Konradiner family, Jackman suggesting that she is well placed in the list to be Graf Gebhard's wife[1417], although this is not the only possible interpretation of the text.
• m GEBHARD Graf im Ufgau, son of EBERHARD Graf in der Ortenau [Konradiner] & his wife Wiltrud --- (-after 15 Jan 947).]

4. [daughter [CUNIGUNDIS] ([890/900]-after 943).

• The Vermandois origin of Graf Udo's wife is suggested by the fact that Flodoard refers to the wife of "Uddone [frater Hermanno]" as amita of "Hugo [de Vermandois Archbishop of Reims]"[1418]. The name of Graf Udo's wife is not given explicitly in the sources. However, a "Cunegundis" is named in a name-list in the Reichenau memorial book dated [926/32] which appears to include members of the Konradiner family, Jackman suggesting that she is well placed in the list to be Graf Gebhard's wife[1419], although this is not the only possible interpretation of the text.
• Her birth date range is estimated from her estimated marriage date.
• m ([915]%29 UDO Graf in der Wetterau, son of GEBHARD Graf in der Wetterau [Konradiner] & his wife Hidda --- (-12 Dec 949).]

References:

• [1400] Reginonis Chronicon 818, MGH SS I, p. 567.
• [1401] Vita Hludowici Imperatoris, MGH SS II, p. 633.
• [1402] Settipani, C. and Kerrebrouck, P. van (1993) La préhistoire des Capétiens 481-987, 1ère partie, Mérovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens (Villeneuve d'Ascq), p. 220.
• [1403] Annales Vedastini 896, MGH SS II, p. 530. .
• [1404] Settipani (1993), p. 407.
• [1405] Nicholas (1992), p. 19.
• [1406] Depoin, J. 'Etudes préparatoires à l'histoire des familles palatines. III. Thibaud le Tricheur fut-il bâtard et mourut-il presque centenaire?', Revue des etudes historiques (1908), p. 595 and footnote 105, cited in Settipani (1993), p. 408.
• [1407] 'Obits mémorables tirés de nécrologes luxembourgeois, rémois et messins', Revue Mabillon VI (1910-1911), p. 274.
• [1408] Settipani (1993), p. 227 footnote 265.
• [1409] L´abbé Pécheur (1851) Histoire de la ville de Guise (Vervins), p. 47, citing "Charte de Raoul évêque de Laon, Lelong, N. Hist. du diocèse de Laon, p. 598".
• [1410] Settipani (1993), p. 236.
• [1411] Barthélemy, E. de (ed.) (1881) Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Bucilly, Introduction.
• [1412] Hugonis Floriacensis, Historia Francorum Senonensis, MGH SS IX, p. 366.
• [1413] WJ II.21, p. 58.
• [1414] Settipani (1993), p. 407.
• [1415] Werner, K. F. (1967) 'Die Nachkommen Karls des Großen bis um Jahr 1000 (1.-8. Generation)' Karl der Große, IV, p. 458, cited in Settipani (1993), p. 407.
• [1416] Jackman, D. C. (1997) Criticism and Critique, sidelights on the Konradiner (Oxford Unit for Prosopographical Research) pp. 36 and 38.
• [1417] Jackman (1997), p. 38.
• [1418] Flodoard 946, MGH SS III, p. 393.
• [1419] Jackman (1997), p. 38.

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Död: omkring 902 Mördad

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From the Francogene page on Herbert Ier de Vermandois:

http://www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/010/010409.php

The family of Héribert Ier de VERMANDOIS and .. [10409] VERMANDOIS (de), Héribert Ier (Pépin .. & .. [10410]), comte, seigneur de Peronne et de Saint-Quentin, died 902

• married , from .. (France) .., .. (..)

     1) Béatrice, married Robert Ier de FRANCE

Bibliographie : Mémoires (Société généalogique canadienne-française)

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Herbert I of Vermandois

• Born: Cir 840
• Marriage: Bertha de Morvois
• Died: Cir 905 aged 65
• Cause of his death was murder.
• Another name for Herbert was Hubert I.

General Notes:

• Herbert ble myrdet mellom 900 og 908.

Noted events in his life were:

• Acceded: Count of Vermandois, 896.
• He was a Count of Senlis.
• Herbert married Bertha de Morvois.

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1. ID: I28880
2. Name: Herbert I of Vermandois
3. Given Name: Herbert
4. Suffix: I of Vermandois
5. Prefix: Count
6. Sex: M
7. Birth: ABT 0848 in of Vermandois, Neustria
8. Death: 0902
9. Ancestral File #: 9G83-0H
10. _UID: 01348172DDBDD611BF694445535400000174 1
11. Change Date: 1 Sep 2002 at 01:00:00

Father: Pepin Quentin II of Vermandois b: ABT 0818 in of Vermandois, Neustria

Mother: of Vermandois b: ABT 0820 in of France

Marriage 1 of France b: ABT 0862 in France

• Children
  • 1. Has No Children Beatrice de Vermandois b: ABT 0880 in of Vermandois, Neustria
  • 2. Has Children de Vermandois b: ABT 0882 in of Vermandois, Neustria
  • 3. Has No Children Herbert II of Vermandois b: ABT 0884 in of Vermandois, Neustria

Sources:

1. Title: #719 (Undefined, and therefore not a source.)

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Om Herbert de Vermandois

Herbert I Vermandois (c. 848/ 850 till 907), greve av Vermandois, Lord of Senlis, av Peronne och San Quentin, var son till Pippin av Vermandois.

Han gifte sig med Bertha de Morvois. [2] De fick följande:

• 1. Herbert II Vermandois[3] (c. 880-943)
• 2. Beatrice av Vermandois (c. 880-931), gift med kung Robert I av Frankrike.
• 3. Cunigunde av Vermandois (d. 943)
• 4. Adele av Vermandois
• 5. Berenger av Vermandois, Greve av Bayeaux vars sonson var Conan jag i Rennes.

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Translated version of the English Wikipedia page on Herbert I of Vermandois:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_I_of_Vermandois

Herbert I Vermandois (c. 848/ 850 till 907), greve av Vermandois, Lord of Senlis, av Peronne och San Quentin, var son till Pippin av Vermandois[1].

Äktenskap och utfärda

Han gifte sig med Bertha de Morvois. [2] De fick följande:

• 1. Herbert II Vermandois[3] (c. 880-943)
• 2. Beatrice av Vermandois (c. 880-931), gift med kung Robert I av Frankrike.
• 3. Cunigunde av Vermandois (d. 943)
• 4. Adele av Vermandois
• 5. Berenger av Vermandois, Greve av Bayeaux vars sonson var Conan jag i Rennes.

Referenser

1. ^ Ancestral Roots av vissa amerikanska nybyggare som kom till Amerika före 1700, Skapad av Frederick Lewis Weis, fortsätts av Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, 8th Edition, 2004, utgiven av Genealogiska Publishing, 50:16, 50:17

2. ^ Ancestral Roots av vissa amerikanska nybyggare som kom till Amerika före 1700, Skapad av Frederick Lewis Weis, fortsätts av Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, 8th Edition, 2004, utgiven av Genealogiska Publishing, 50:17

3. ^ Ancestral Roots av vissa amerikanska nybyggare som kom till Amerika före 1700, Skapad av Frederick Lewis Weis, fortsätts av Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, 8th Edition, 2004, utgiven av Genealogiska Publishing, 50:17, 50:18

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From the French Wikipedia page on Herbert I de Vermandois (mostly based on Settipani):

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Ier_de_Vermandois

Herbert Ier de Vermandois, né vers 850, mort entre 900 et 907. Il fut seigneur de Péronne et de Saint-Quentin, comte de Soissons, comte de Vermandois et de Meaux de 896 à sa mort. Il était fils de Pépin, petit fils de Bernard, roi d'Italie.

Il apparaît en 877 à la cour du roi Charles le Chauve et est cité en 889 comme un fidèle du roi Eudes. Il devient comte de Vermandois en 896, succédant au Nibelungide Théodoric, qui était probablement son grand-père maternel. Dans les années qui suivent, il hérite de plusieurs comtés (Soissons, Meaux et Vexin), tenus par d'autres Nibelungides. Cet ensemble forma une marche militaire créée en 890 pour lutter contre les Normands.

Mariage et enfants

Son épouse est inconnue. Des études récentes laissent penser qu'elle se prénommait Leutgarde, et qu'elle serait fille du comte de Troyes Adalelme. Il a eu :

• 1. Herbert II (880 † 943), comte de Vermandois, de Meaux et de Soissons ;
• 2. Béatrice, mariée vers 895 à Robert Ier, roi de France († 923) ;
• 3. Cunégonde, mariée vers 915 à Odon Ier, comte de Wetterau.

Herbert Ier de Vermandois

Comte de Vermandois

• Précédé par Théodoric
• Suivi par Herbert II

Comte de Meaux

• Précédé par Théodebert
• Suivi par Herbert II

Source

Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4)

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In English:

Herbert I de Vermandois was born about 850 and died between 900 and 907. He was lord of Peronne and St-Quentin, Comte de Soissons, Comte de Vermandois and Meaux from 896 until his death. He was the son of Pippen, grandson of Bernard, King of Italy.

He appears in 877 at the court of King Charles the Bald and is cited in 889 as a loyal follower of King Odo. He became Comte de Vermandois in 896, succeeding the Nibelungid leader Theodroic, which was probably his maternal grandfather. In the years that followed, he inherited several counties (Soissons, Meaux, Vexin) that were held by other Nibelungids. The group formed a military march in 890 to defend against the Normans.

Marriage and Children:

His wife is unknown. Recent studies suggest that Leutgarde was her first name, and that she was the daughter of the Comte de Troyes, Adalelm. They had:

• 1. Herbert II (880-943), Comte de Vermandois, Meaux, and Soissons.
• 2. Beatrice, who married Robert I, King of France, in 895 (d. 923).
• 3. Cunegonde, who married Odo I, Comte de Wetterau, in 915.

---------------------------------

From the English Wikipedia page for Herbert I, Count of Vermandois: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_I,_Count_of_Vermandois

Herbert I of Vermandois (c. 848/850 – 907), Count of Vermandois, lord of Senlis, of Péronne and of Saint Quentin, was the son of Pepin of Vermandois.[1]

Marriage and issue

He married Bertha de Morvois.[2] They had the following:

• 1. Herbert II of Vermandois[3] (c. 880-943)
• 2. Béatrice of Vermandois (c. 880-931), married King Robert I of France.
• 3.Cunigunde of Vermandois (d. 943)
• 4. Adele of Vermandois

Count of Vermandois.

• Preceded by Pepin
• Served 896–907.
• Succeeded by Herbert II .

References

1.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:16, 50:17

2.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:17

3.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:17, 50:18

---------------------------

From the German Wikipedia page on Heribert I. (Vermandois), (mostly based on Rudolf Schieffer):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heribert_I._%28Vermandois%29

Heribert I. (* wohl 850; † 6. November 900/907) aus dem Haus der Karolinger war durch seinen Vater Pippin ein Enkel des Königs Bernhard von Italien.

Er wurde 886/898 Graf von Soissons und Abt von Saint-Crépin in Soissons, 888/889 Graf von Meaux und Madrie, und war in dieser Zeit gemeinsam mit dem Erzbischof Fulco von Reims (Foulques le Venerable, 882–900) einer der Anführer der Adelsoppostion gegen den neuen König Odo von Paris, der 888–898 der erste Robertiner auf dem französischen Thron war.

Am 28. Januar 893, dem Jahrestag von Karls des Großen Tod, krönten Heribert und Fulco Karl den Einfältigen, den Sohn Ludwigs des Stammlers zum Gegenkönig, eine Maßnahme, die erst nach Odos Tod 898 Erfolg hatte, unter anderem deswegen, weil Odo nach und nach die Parteigänger Karls auf seine Seite zog, darunter schließlich auch Heribert, dem er dafür 896 die wichtige Grafschaft Vermandois übergab. Heribert weitete nach dem Erwerb des Vermandois seine Macht in die Champagne aus, ohne vom König dafür zur Rechenschaft gezogen zu werden.

Ebenso wie Fulco von Reims wurde auch Heribert I. von Vermandois im Auftrag des Grafen Balduin II. von Flandern ermordet.

Heribert war vielleicht mit Bertha von Morvois[1], verheiratet, und hatte vier Kinder, einen Sohn und drei Töchter:

• 1. Heribert II. (* wohl 880, † 23. Februar 943) 900/907 Graf von Meaux, Soissons und Vermandois, 907 Abt von Saint-Médard in Soissons, begraben in Saint-Quentin, ∞ vor 21. Mai 907 Adela, Tochter des Markgrafen Robert von Neustrien (ab 922 als Robert I. König von Frankreich) (Robertiner)
• 2. Beatrix (* wohl 886, † nach 26. März 931) ∞ um 895 Robert Markgraf von Neustrien († 923), ab 922 als Robert I. König von Frankreich (Robertiner)
• 3. Tochter ∞ (Gebhard Graf im Ufgau 940 (Konradiner)) † nach 15. Januar 947
• 4. Tochter (vermutlich Adela/e) ∞ Udo Graf in der Wetterau († 949) (Konradiner)

Literatur

Rudolf Schieffer: Die Karolinger, Stuttgart 2000, ISBN 3-17-016480-5

Weblinks

Heribert I. bei mittelalter-genealogie

• http://www.mittelalter-genealogie.de/heribertiner/heribert_1_graf_v...

Fußnoten [Bearbeiten]

1. ↑ zur Richtigkeit dieser Angabe siehe dort

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http://www.mittelalter-genealogie.de/heribertiner/heribert_1_graf_v...

Heribert I.

• Graf von Vermandois (896-907)
• Graf von Soissons (886/98-907)
• Graf von Meaux, Madrie und Ormois
• um 840-6.11.900/07 ermordet

Abt von S. Crepin

Sohn des Grafen Pippin I.; Urenkel des Kaisers KARL DER GROSSE

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Lexikon des Mittelalters: Band IV Spalte 2154

Heribert I., Graf von Vermandois

• + 6. November 900/06

Enkel Bernhards von Italien, Sohn Graf Pippins und vermutlich einer Dame aus dem Hochadel des Pariser Raums, war als KAROLINGER im Mannesstamm eng mit den Führungsschichten Neustriens und der Francia verwandt

Begründer des Hauses „VERMANDOIS“

Vergleichbar mit anderen Herrschaftsbildungen in W-Franken (ROBERTINER in Neustrien, Rudolf in Burgund, Balduin in Flandern), vollzog sich der Aufstieg der „VERMANDOIS“ im späten 9. Jh. Zwischen 886 und 898 erwarb Heribert die Grafschaft Soissons und die Laienabbiate von St-Crepin und St. Medard/Soissons. Enge Bindungen zu König Odo verschafften ihm 888/89 die Grafschaften Meaux (mit Chateau-Thierry) und Merezais, eventuell auch Beauvais, Vexin und Senlis, die Heribert zur Abwehr der Normannen zusammenfaßte. 893 in Opposition zu Odo, waren Heribert I. und sein Bruder Pippin neben Erzbischof Fulco von Reims maßgeblich an der Erhebung Karls III. beteiligt. Ein erneuter Parteiwechsel zu Odo brachte den Erwerb der Grafschaft Vermandois und des Laienabbiats von St-Quentin 896. Während seiner Auseinandersetzungen mit den Grafen von Flandern wurde Heribert zwischen 900 und 906 erschlagen. Brandenburg Erich: Tafel 1

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"Die Nachkommen Karls des Großen"

V. Generation 3.

Heribert I. Graf (wohl von Vermandois) 893

• ca. 840, + nach 900, vor 908 ermordet

Gemahlin: N

Anmerkungen: Seite 114

V. 3. Heribert I.

Das Geburtsjahr kann nur schätzungsweise angegeben werden. 877 und 892 wie bei Nr. 2. Er erscheint nie ausdrücklich als Graf von Vermandois, war aber wohl sicher schon im Besitz dieser später von seinen Nachkommen verwalteten Grafschaft. Er wurde ermordet von einem Dienstmann des Grafen Balduin von Flandern, Regino 818, S. S. 1, 567. Der Zeitpunkt ist ungewiß. Heribert kommt zuletzt vor im Sommer 900, Ann. Vedast., S. S. 1, 531; er muß 908 tot gewesen sein, da Regino, der in diesem Jahr seine Chronik vollendete, seinen Tod erwähnt. Meist wird 902 als sein Todesjahr angenommen, ich kenne aber keinen Grund dafür. [V 3]

• Ergänzung (Werner): * ca. 850, + 6. XI. 900/07 (ermordet)
• 886/98 Graf von Soissons und Abt von St. Crepin,
• 888/89 Graf von Meaux, Madrie,
• 896 Graf von Vermandois.

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Werner Karl Ferdinand: Seite 455

"Die Nachkommen Karls des Großen bis um das Jahr 1000 (1.-8. Generation)"

V. Generation 1

Regino nennt zu 818 (ed. Kurze 73) als ältesten Sohn Pippins, des Sohnes König Bernhards von Italien, Bernhardus, vor seinen Brüdern Pippin und Heribert. Zu 893 I 28, der Erhebung Karls III. als Gegen-König in Reims (ed. 140f) erwähnt er nebeneinander die Brüder und Grafen Heribert und Pippin. Es ist möglich, daß Bernhard zu diesem Zeitpunkt nicht mehr lebte. Die Aufstellungen von Guiseppe Pochettino, I Pippinidi in Italia (sec. VIII-XII), Archivio storico lombardo, Serie sesta 54 (1927) 1-43 sind zu unsicher, um berücksichtigt werden zu können. Er unterstellt für Bernhard, er habe in Italien weitergelebt und dort Nachkommen gehabt. Dabei stützt er sich lediglich auf Vorkommen des (verbreiteten) Namens Bernhard: Kein einziger Pippin oder Heribert (Leitname der Familie von Bernhards Mutter, vgl. Werner, Unters. 101f.) begegnet unter diesen vermeintlichen Nachkommen. Dagegen könnte Bernhard durchaus identisch sein mit dem Grafen dieses Namens, der ND de Laon als Testamentsvollstrecker KARLS DES KAHLEN einen Codex überbrachte, siehe E. Bourgeois, Le capitulaire de Kiersy-sur-Oise, Paris 1885,23. Thiele Andreas: Band II, Teilband 1 Tafel 32

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"Erzählende genealogische Stammtafeln"

Heribert I. baute sich nach und nach im Raum Paris eine überragende Machtposition auf als treue Stütze des königlichen Vetters KARL II. DER KAHLE. Er wurde Graf von Beauvais, Senlis, Madrie, Chartres und Teilen von Artois und beherrschte damit die gesamte Ile de France. Wie die ROBERTINER stützte er sich auf markgräfliche Rechte im Kampf gegen die Normannen, schlug sie 885/86 bei Paris zurück und baute Schloß Chateau-Thierry als Zentrum aus. Er bekämpfte besonders die Grafen von Flandern wegen Peronne und St. Quentin, ermordete 896 den Grafen Rudolf und wurde von dessem Bruder ermordet. Heribert wählte 893 zusammen mit Erzbischof Fulco von Reims Karl III. mit, fiel 896 von ihm ab und erkannte ihn 898 endgültig an. Er war Laienabt von St. Quentin, Peronne, St. Medard und St. Crepin und neben dem Herzog von Burgund der mächtigste französische Kronvasall seiner Epoche.

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Schwager Helmut: Seite 24,26-31

„Graf Heribert II.“

Heribert I. und sein Bruder Pippin tauchten in der engsten Umgebung Kaiser KARLS II. DES KAHLEN auf; und zwar sandte sie der westfränkische Herrscher im September 877 auf seinem zweiten Italienzug mit seinem Notar Audacher und dem Grafen Goiram nach Oberitalien, um Papst Johannes VIII. das Geleit nach Pavia zu geben. Der Autor der Annales Bertiniani, Erzbischof Hincmar von Reims, nennt dabei beide HERIBERTINER ohne Rangbezeichnung, weswegen sie anscheinend lediglich am Hofe KARLS DES KAHLEN lebten und damals noch keine Grafen gewesen sind.

b) Graf Heribert als Begründer der heribertinischen Machtstellung in der Francia

Der weitere Aufstieg der HERIBERTINER im nördlichen Gallien vollzog sich erst in den Wirren, in die das W-Fränkische Reich nach dem unerwartet frühen Tod von KARLS DES KAHLEN Sohn König Ludwig II. der Stammler (+ 879) stürzte. Frühestens Ende 886 gelang es Heribert I., die Grafschaft Soissons nebst dem Kloster Saint-Crepin in Soissons zu erhalten, zumindest hat man von seinem Vorgänger Graf (H)erich, der am 25. Oktober 886 eine Urkunde für das Kloster Saint-Crepin ausfertigen ließ, seitdem nichts mehr gehört. Sicher bestätigt wird Graf Heriberts I. Herrschaft im Soissonnais jedoch erst am 17. Mai 898 durch eine Urkunde König Karls III. für das Kloster Saint-Crepin! Um die Jahrhundertwende 888/89 wurde Graf Heribert I. weiter mit der Grafschaft Meaux belehnt, nachdem deren bisheriger Graf Tetbert im Sommer 888 im Kampf mit den Normannen vor Meaux gefallen war. Zur Grafschaft Meaux gehörten noch das Omois mit der wichtigen Festung Chateau-Thierry und das Queudois. Graf Heribert I. erhielt diese Grafschaft bereits als Anhänger des 1. nicht-karolingischen westfränkischen Königs, des ROBERTINERS/KAPETINGERS Odo, des Sohnes Markgraf Roberts des Tapferen von Neustrien. Zusammen mit seinem Bruder Pippin, der in dieser Zeit eine Grafschaft nördlich von Paris, wahrscheinlich Senlis, erhalten hatte, begannen beide nun mit dem Aufbau der heribertinischen Machtposition im östlichen N-Gallien als Leiter der Normannenabwehr an der Oise unnd der unteren Seine. Ungefähr zur gleichen Zeit wird Graf Heribert I. auch die Grafschaft Merezais/Madrie erhalten haben, wozu noch wichtiger Besitz im Vexin kam, dergestalt stabilisierte sich der Machtkomplex der HERIBERTINER. Noch am 30. Dezember 889 erschien Graf Heribert I. als Intervenient in einer Urkunde König Odos; doch bald geriet der HERIBERTINER in zunehmenden Konflikt mit dem westfränkischen König, der einerseits versuchte, die steigende Macht der westfränkischen Aristokratie zu begrenzen und andererseits selbst eine hemmungslose robertinische Hausmachtpolitik betrieb. Im Jahre 892 verbanden sich Graf Heribert I. und sein Bruder Graf Pippin von Senlis mit Erzbischof Fulco von Reims und anderen westfränkischen Gegnern des ROBERTINERS König Odo und erhoben am 28. Januar 893 zu Reims den KAROLINGER Karl III. den Einfältigen, dritten Sohn König Ludwigs II. des Stammlers, zum Gegen-König im W-Fränkischen Reich. Deshalb rückte König Odo mit großer militärischer Übermacht heran und drängte die Aufrührer bereits 894 in die Defensive. Zur Jahreswende 894/95 mußten Graf Heribert I. und seine Freunde sogar die Francia verlassen und in die Burgundia fliehen. Als ihnen König Zwentibold von Lothringen zu Hilfe kam, brachte ihnen dies nur wenig Nutzen. Denn gerade die Intervention der Lothringer spaltete das Lager König Karls III. endgültig: Graf Balduin II. von Flandern und sein Bruder Graf Rudolf (+ 896) verbündeten sich mit ihnen und trieben Expansionspolitik auf eigene Faust, die ihnen Peronne und das befestigte Kloster Saint-Quentin einbrachte. Währenddessen versuchten Graf Heribert I. und andere Aufständische eine Fühlungnahme mit König Odo, nachdem dieser dem HERIBERTINER die meisten Burgen abgenommen hatte. Als zur Jahreswende 895/96 Graf Rudolf die Verhandlungen mit den ROBERTINERN torpedierte, unterwarfen sich die HERIBERTINER, später sogar Erzbischof Fulco von Reims, der Coronator König Karls III., dem legitimen westfränkischen König Odo. Der KAROLINGER Karl der Einfältige war daraufhin gezwungen, nach Lothringen zu fliehen. Währenddessen rückte König Odo, unterstützt von Graf Heribert I., auf Saint-Quentin vor, das er mit der Abtei Saint-Quentin-en-Vermandois eroberte und nebst Peronne an den wieder getreuen HERIBERTINER gab. Der erboste Graf Rudolf fiel darauf plündernd in die Besitzungen der Abtei ein, worauf er von Graf Heribert I. gestellt und in einem Gefecht am 28. Juni 896 erschlagen wurde. Tatsächlich war der HERIBERTINER erst seitdem Graf von Vermandois, wie er allerdings nie genannt worden ist. Dies trifft auch auf seinen Sohn Graf Heribert II. zu, der vor allem von Flodoard und Richer nie derart tituliert worden ist, weswegen jeder Versuch, Saint-Quentin und Vermandois als Kern der heribertinischen Besitzungen hinstellen und deswegen von einem Hause "VERMANDOIS" sprechen zu wollen, zum Scheitern verurteilt ist. Wie dem auch sei, als es im Jahre 897 zu einem Friedensschluß und einer reichsteilung zwischen König Odo und König Karl III. kam, vermittelte der ROBERTINER zwischen dem HERIBERTINER und dem KAROLINGER. Inzwischen tobten aber heftige Kämpfe im NO um Peronne zwischen Graf Heribert I. und dem rachedürstenden Grafen Balduin II. von Flandern. Diese Auseinandersetzungen setzten sich auch im Jahre 898 fort, als der KAROLINGER Karl III. alleiniger König des W-Fränkischen Reiches wurde. Er entriß 899 dem Grafen Balduin II. die Abtei Saint-Vaast bei Arras und gab sie seinem Erzkanzler Erzbischof Fulco von Reims. Dieser jedoch tauschte sie bei Graf Alkmar von Artois (+ ca. 920) gegen die wichtige Abtei Saint-Medard bei Soissons ein. Die Folge war nun eine angrundtiefe Feindschaft zwischen Erzbischof Fulco und Graf Heribert I. einerseits und Graf Balduin II. von Flandern andererseits. Als Ergebnis dieser Antipathie wurde Erzbischof Fulco von Reims am 17. Juni 900 durch Winemar und andere flämische Vasallen Balduins II. ermordet. Dies nützte aber Graf Heribert I. sofort aus und okkupierte die Abtei Saint-Medard bei Soissons, die nun bis 1048 seiner Familie gehören sollte. Allerdings erbte der HERIBERTINER auch die alte Todfeindschaft, die schließlich im Zeitraum von 900 bis 906 an einem unbekannten Zeitpunkt zur Ermordung Graf Heriberts I. durch Balduin und andere Vasallen Graf Balduins II. führte. Beim Tode des HERIBERTINERS und der Herrschaftsübernahme durch seinen einzigen Sohn Heribert II. waren die heribertinischen Besitzungen in der Francia bereits zu einem solchen Machtkomplex geworden, daß ihnen nur noch die ROBERTINER um Paris sowie die BALDUINE in Flandern an politischer und militärischer Macht gleichkamen. Daher mußte zwischen ihnen die Entscheidung im Kampf um die Vormacht in der Francia fallen! Graf Heribert II. trat jedenfalls bestens ausgerüstet in diese Auseinandersetzung ein!

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oo Adele von Meaux, Erb-Tochter des Grafen Theutbert

Kinder:

1. Heribert II. Graf von Vermandois (880-23.2.943)

2. Beatrix (880- nach 3.931), 895 oo 2. Robert I. Herzog von Neustrien (um 860-15.6.923)

3. Kunigunde ( - nach 943) oo Udo IV. Graf von der Wetterau ( -12.12.949)

Literatur:

• Dümmler Ernst: Die Chronik des Abtes Regino von Prüm. Verlag der Dykschen Buchhandlung Leipzig Seite 8,104 -
• Dümmler Ernst: Geschichte des Ostfränkischen Reiches. Verlag von Duncker und Humblot Berlin 1865 Band II Seite 53,383,433,517 -
• Hlawitschka Eduard: Lotharingien und das Reich an der Schwelle der deutschen Geschichte. Anton Hiersemann Stuttgart 1968 Seite 117,205,247 -
• Riche Pierre: Die Karolinger. Eine Familie formt Europa. Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag GmbH & Co. KG, München 1991 Seite 277, 293 -
• Schieffer Rudolf: Die Karolinger. W. Kohlhammer GmbH Stuttgart Berlin Köln 1992 Seite 193,199,224 -
• Schwager, Helmut: Graf Heribert II. von Soissons. Verlag Michael Lassleben Kallmünz/Opf. 1994 Seite 5,22,24,26-31,36,63/64,68,85,233,318,336,359,398,406 -
• Werner Karl Ferdinand: Die Nachkommen Karls des Großen bis um das Jahr 1000 (1.-8. Generation) Band IV in: Braunfels Wolfgang: Karl der Große Lebenswerk und Nachleben. Verlag L. Schwann Düsseldorf Seite 455 -

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Forrás / Source, Darryl Lundy's Peerage page:

• http://www.thepeerage.com/p10477.htm#i104764

Heribert I, Comte de Vermandois (1)

• M, #104764, b. circa 850
• Last Edited=30 May 2009

Heribert I, Comte de Vermandois was born circa 850. (1) He was the son of Pepin II, Seigneur de Peronne.

Heribert I, Comte de Vermandois gained the title of Comte de Vermandois. (1)

Child of Heribert I, Comte de Vermandois

• -1. Heribert II, Comte de Vermandois+ b. c 880, d. 23 Feb 943 (2)

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From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps04/ps04_299.htm

Herbert was Count de Vermandois, Siegneur of Senlis, Peronne and St. Quentin. {- ref. "Ancestral Roots of Sixty New England Colonists," by F.L.Weis (Lancaster, Mass., 1950, p. 64).} Allstrom's "Dict. of Royal Lineage," Vol. ii, p. 755, states that Herbert m. Richilde, dau. of Robert the Strong who died in battle, 866/67. Herbert I was Imperial Ambassador.

References: [Weis1],[AR7],[ES],[RFC] (Sources indecipherable, except for the two within text)

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b. 840 c., d. 902 (murdered)

Herbert (Hubert) de Vermandois I (Count of Senlis.Count of Vermandois; Seigneur of Senlis, Peronne and St. Quentin), m Bertha de Morvois (d. of Count Guerri I and Eve of Roussillon),

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Count de Vermandois, Siegneur of Senlis, Peronne & St. Quentin.

Source: The book, 'The Oxford History of Medieval Europe'

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Born circa 840

Died (murdered) circa 900 – 908

Married Bertha, a daugher of Guerri (I), Count of Morvois and they had the following children:

Sprota or Adela of Senlis who married William (I) Longsword 2nd Duke of Normandy as his first wife.

Herbert (II), Count of Vermandois

Beatrice de Vermandois, born in 880, who married Robert (I), King of France.

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Occupation: Count of Senlis

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http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konradiner Udo d.949 graf in der Wetterau.....m. NN von Vermandois, tochter des grafen Heribert I. (Karolinger)

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http://larryvoyer.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I158260&tree...

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5. HERBERT (I) COMTE DE VERMANDOIS, b. 840 Peronne, Italy, d. Nov 16, 902, m. Berthe de Paris, b. 850

Beartix, Queen of France, b. 876, d. 929

Herbert (II) de Vermandois, b. 880 Vermandois Picardie, d. Feb 23, 943 Saint Quentin, Aisne

Hildebrande, b. 890, d. 949

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Pedigree Resource File

name: Herbert I Count of /Vermandois/

sexo: male nacimiento: 0848

                        Vermandois, , Normandie Province, France defunción: 	 0902  matrimonio: 	 aproximadamente 0878 

                        Vermandois, France

Padres Padre: Paepin, Pepin I /De Senlis/ Count of Vermandois madre: Rothaïde /De Bobbio/ Countess of Vermandois

Matrimonios (1) cónyuge: Bertha /de Morvois/ matrimonio: aproximadamente 0878

                        Vermandois, France

Ocultar hijos (2) hijo 1: Beatrice /De Vermandois/ sexo: female nacimiento: aproximadamente 0880

                        Vermandois, France defunción: 	 March 0931

hijo 2: Hebert II /De Vermandois/ Count of Vermandois & Troy sexo: male nacimiento: aproximadamente 0884

                        Vermandois, Normandy, France defunción: 	 23 February 0943 

                       St Quentin, France

Cita de este registro "Pedigree Resource File," database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/S5F5-2CJ : accessed 2014-05-10), entry for Herbert I Count of /Vermandois/.

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Son of Herbert I, Count of Vermandois & Bertha de Morvis

Links

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_II,_Count_of_Vermandois

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_I,_Count_of_Vermandois

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Herbert I, Count of Vermandois

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (August 2007)

Herbert I of Vermandois (c. 848/850 – 907), Count of Vermandois, lord of Senlis, of Péronne and of Saint Quentin, was the son of Pepin of Vermandois.[1]

[edit] Marriage and issue

No surviving reliable source names the wife of Herbert I. Many secondary works call her Bertha de Morvois.[2] The main basis of the claim is Historia Walciodorensis Monasterii, an account of the founder of Waulsort monastery, Ybert de Ribemont (Eilbertus, Elbertus), which includes a fabricated genealogy.[3][4] They are commonly assigned the following children although, again, contemporary testimony is wanting:

Herbert II of Vermandois[5] (c. 880-943)

Béatrice of Vermandois (c. 880-931), married King Robert I of France.

Cunigunde of Vermandois (d. 943)

Adele of Vermandois

[edit] References

1.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:16, 50:17

2.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:17

3.^ The Henry Project

4.^ Charles Cawley, Medieval Lands, which speculates on the possibility of her his wife being a Ledgardis.

5.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:17, 50:18

Preceded by

Pepin

Count of Vermandois

896–907

Succeeded by

Herbert II

[edit] References

1.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:16, 50:17

2.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:17

3.^ The Henry Project

4.^ Charles Cawley, Medieval Lands, which speculates on the possibility of her his wife being a Ledgardis.

5.^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700, Created by Frederick Lewis Weis, Continued by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., 8th Edition, 2004, Published by Genealogical Publishing, 50:17, 50:18

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Herbert I of Vermandois (c. 848/850 – 907), Count of Vermandois, Count of Meaux, Count of Soissons, and lay abbot of Saint Quentin. He was a Carolingian aristocrat who played a significant role in Francia.

Herbert was the son of Pepin of Vermandois Herbert became count of Soissons before 889 and was probably charged with defending the Oise against Viking intrusions. A contemporary of Baldwin II, Count of Flanders he had the advantage of being a Carolingian, a grandson of Pepin of Italy, a son of Charlemagne.[1] Herbert controlled both St. Quentin and Péronne and his activities in the upper Somme river valley, such as the capture and murder (rather than ransom) of his brother Raoul in 896, may have caused Baldwin II to have him assassinated in 907.[2]

Herbert arranged a marriage alliance to Robert of Neustria by giving in marriage his daughter Beatrice as Robert's second wife.[1] As a part of this pact Herbert also agreed to his son Herbert II of Vermandois marrying Adela, Robert's daughter by his first wife.[1]

Marriage and issue[edit]

He married Bertha de Morvis and their children are: Herbert II, Count of Vermandois, succeeded his father.[3] Béatrice of Vermandois (c. 880–931), married King Robert I of France.[3] An unnamed daughter († aft. 943) who married Eudo, Count in the Wetterau.[3]

References[edit]

1.^ Jump up to: a b c Jean Dunbabin, France in the making, 843-1180 (Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press, 2000), p. 95 2.Jump up ^ Pierre Riché, The Carolingians; A Family who Forged Europe, trans. Michael Idomir Allen (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1993), p. 236 3.^ Jump up to: a b c Detlev Schwennicke, Europäische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten, Neue Folge, Band III, Teilband 1 (Marburg, Germany: J. A. Stargardt, 1984), Tafel 49

Herbert I av Vermandois (c. 848/850-907), greve av Vermandois, greve av Meaux, greve av Soissons og av Saint Quentin.

Han var en karolingiske aristokrat som spilte en betydelig rolle i Frankerriket. Herbert av Losinga var sønn av Pipin av Vermandois. Herbert ble greve av Soissons før 889, han sannsynligvis satt til å forsvare elven Oise mot vikingene. Herbert levde på samme tid som Balduin II av Flandern og hadde dermed fordelen av å være en karolinger, et oldebarn av Pipin av Italia, sønn av Karl. den store.

Herbert kontrollerte både St. Quentin og Péronne, Han hadde aktiviteter elvedalen i øvre Somme, der han fanget og drap Baldvins bror Raul i 896. Raul hadde blitt utvist tidligere samme år fra grevskapet Vermandois. Dette kan ha forårsaket at Herbert ble drept av en tilhenger av Baldwin II i 907.

Herbert allierte seg med Robert i Neustria da han arrangerte et ekteskap for datteren Beatrix mellom henne og Robert, som en del av denne pakten ble de også enige om at Herberts sønn Herbert II av Vermandois skulle gifte seg med Adela, datter av Roberts første kone,

Hans kone er ukjent, men det er antatt at hun hette Lietgarde. Bertha of Morvois er også nevnt Han hadde 4 barn Herbert II, Beatrix, Adela og Cunigundis

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#HeribertIIdie...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_I,_Count_of_Vermandois