Guillaume II "Talvas" de Bellême, seigneur d'Alençon

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_II_Talvas_de_Bell%C3%AAme

http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00177416&tree=LEO

LINKS

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY%20NOBILITY.htm#GuillaumeB...

------------------------------

MEDIEVAL LANDS

GUILLAUME [II] "Talvas" de Bellême (-after [1050/54]). Guillaume de Jumièges names (in order) "Guérin, Foulques, Robert et Guillaume" as the four sons of "Guillaume de Belesme, fils d'Yves", commenting that they were perfectly similar to their father in character[117]. Guillaume de Jumièges records that Guillaume Talvas succeeded after the death of his brother Robert[118], commenting that he was "plus mauvais encore que tous ses frères". "Guillelmus de Belismo" founded the church of Saint-Léonard de Bellême by charter dated to [1023/27][119]. Sire d'Alençon. Guillaume de Jumièges records that Robert and Raoul avenged the mutilation of their brother Guillaume by devastating the lands of Guillaume [II] "Talvas" Sire d'Alençon[120]. "…Willelmus filius Guillelmi…" witnessed the charter dated to [1042] under which Guillaume II Duke of Normandy donated "nostras insulas Serc et Aurrene, propter medietatem Grenere" to the abbey of Mont-Saint-Michel, supported by "Rannulfo filio Anschitilli"[121]. Guillaume de Jumièges records his being sent into exile by his son Arnoul[122].

m firstly HILDEBURGE, daughter of ARNOUL & his wife ---. Guillaume de Jumièges names "Hildeburge fille d'Arnoul" as wife of Guillaume Talvas, recording that her husband had her strangled on her way to church[123].

m secondly --- de Beaumont, daughter of RAOUL [V] de Beaumont Vicomte du Maine & his first wife Emma de Montevrault Dame de Lude. Guillaume de Jumièges records that the second wife of Guillaume Talvas was the daughter of "Raoul vicomte de Beaumont" but does not name her[124].

Guillaume [II] & his first wife had two children:

a) ARNOUL de Bellême (-murdered). Guillaume de Jumièges names "Arnoul et Mabille" as children of Guillaume Talvas and Hildeburge, recording in a later passage his revolt against his father whom he forced into exile, and his being strangled in his bed[125].

b) MABILE (-murdered Bures 2 Dec 1079, bur 5 Dec 1079 Troarn). Guillaume de Jumièges names "Arnoul et Mabille" as children of Guillaume Talvas and Hildeburge[126]. According to Orderic Vitalis, Mabile was "a forceful and worldly woman, cunning, garrulous and extremely cruel"[127]. Guillaume de Jumièges records that her father arranged her marriage to "Roger de Montgomeri" after his exile[128]. "Rogerius comes…et sua uxor Mabilia atque suus filius Rotbertus" donated property to Notre-Dame de Bellême by charter dated to [1070/79][129]. She was murdered by Hugh Bunel, son of Robert "de Jalgeio" from whom she had taken his castle, who found her "relaxing in bed after a bath [and] struck off her head with his sword"[130]. "Roger ex Northmannis Northmannus son of Roger" donated property to St Martin, Troarn for the soul of "his wife Mabel lately deceased" by charter dated to [1079/82], subscribed by "Rogerii comitis, Rotberti filii eius, Hugonis, Rogerii, Philippi, Arnulfis [filiorum eius]"[131].

m ([1050/54]%29 ROGER [II] de Montgommery, son of ROGER [I] de Montgommery Seigneur de Montgommery and Vicomte de l'Hiémois & his wife Josceline --- (-Shrewsbury 27 Jul 1094, bur Shrewsbury Abbey). Sire d'Alençon. He was created Earl of Shrewsbury in 1074.

Guillaume [II] had one illegitimate child by an unknown mistress:

c) OLIVIER de Mesle (-after 28 May 1053). Guillaume de Jumièges names Oliver as brother of Arnoul, recording that he was suspected of murdering his brother and later became a monk at Bec[132]. It is assumed that he was illegitimate as the same source in another passage names the two children of Guillaume [II] by his first wife. Yves Bishop of Sées confirmed the sale of the church of Courgains, with the consent of "fratre episcopi Willelmo, et Oliverio et Warino et Rodulfo episcopi nepotibus", by charter dated 28 May 1053[133]. A later charter of Abbé Avesgaud summarises the sale, stating that it was made with the consent of "episcopi Sagiensis, Ivonis nomine, et Willelmi fratris predicti Sagiensis episcopi…etiam Warino et Willelmo filiis Roberti, Olivario Willelmi filio, Radulfi filio Warini, et Seginfredo filio Willelmi de Bellisimo"[134]. He left descendants known as "Oison"[135], but the primary source which confirms their existence has not yet been identified.

http://armidalesoftware.com/issue/full/Thaler_847_main.html#N1

Section KC: Descendants of Count Fulk de Corbonais

David Thaler

18043 NE 132nd St, Redmond WA 98052

Send questions and corrections to: dthaler@microsoft.com

HTML generated by Issue v1.3.6 on 8 Dec. 2008

http://www.armidalesoftware.com/issue/

From Thaler_export.ged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generation One

1. COUNT FULK1 DE CORBONAIS was born between 827 and 983, and died between 887 and 1093. He married ROLAIS. [3]

Child: + 2 i. IVRES I2 DE BELESME, d. in 997; m. GODCHILDE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generation Two

2. IVRES I2 DE BELESME (Fulk de CORBONAIS1), son of (1) Count Fulk1 and Rolais, was born between 887 and 983, and died in 997[3]. He married GODCHILDE. [3]

Child: + 3 i. COUNT GUILLAUME I3 DE ALENCON, d. in 1028; m. MAUD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generation Three

3. COUNT GUILLAUME I3 DE ALENCON (Ivres I de BELESME2, Fulk de CORBONAIS1), son of (2) Ivres I2 and Godchilde BELESME, was born between 918 and 998, and died in 1028[3]. He married MAUD. [3]

Child: + 4 i. WILLIAM4 TALVAS, d. in 1070; m. HILDEBURGE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generation Four

4. WILLIAM4 TALVAS (Guillaume I de ALENCON3, Ivres I de BELESME2, Fulk de CORBONAIS1), son of (3) Count Guillaume I3 and Maud, was born between 966 and 1012, and died in 1070[1]. He married HILDEBURGE. [3, 2]

Child: + 5 i. MABEL5 of Alencon, Eure, France, b. circa 1026, d. in 1079; m. (AAL-5) ROGER DE MONTGOMERY, EARL OF SHREWSBURY in 1048.

William was also called Guillaume II d'Alençon.

William was a cruel and barbarous man.

He married Hildeburge (?), daughter of Arnoul (?) chevalier, before 1005.

William cursed the Conqueror (William the Bastard, long before he conquered anything) in his cradle in 1028.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p348.htm#i4645 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )

Spouses:

1. Hildeburg

2. (daughter) de Beaumont

LINKS

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#GuillaumeBell...

------------------------------

MEDIEVAL LANDS

GUILLAUME [II] "Talvas" de Bellême (-after [1050/54]). Guillaume de Jumièges names (in order) "Guérin, Foulques, Robert et Guillaume" as the four sons of "Guillaume de Belesme, fils d'Yves", commenting that they were perfectly similar to their father in character[117]. Guillaume de Jumièges records that Guillaume Talvas succeeded after the death of his brother Robert[118], commenting that he was "plus mauvais encore que tous ses frères". "Guillelmus de Belismo" founded the church of Saint-Léonard de Bellême by charter dated to [1023/27][119]. Sire d'Alençon. Guillaume de Jumièges records that Robert and Raoul avenged the mutilation of their brother Guillaume by devastating the lands of Guillaume [II] "Talvas" Sire d'Alençon[120]. "…Willelmus filius Guillelmi…" witnessed the charter dated to [1042] under which Guillaume II Duke of Normandy donated "nostras insulas Serc et Aurrene, propter medietatem Grenere" to the abbey of Mont-Saint-Michel, supported by "Rannulfo filio Anschitilli"[121]. Guillaume de Jumièges records his being sent into exile by his son Arnoul[122].

m firstly HILDEBURGE, daughter of ARNOUL & his wife ---. Guillaume de Jumièges names "Hildeburge fille d'Arnoul" as wife of Guillaume Talvas, recording that her husband had her strangled on her way to church[123].

m secondly --- de Beaumont, daughter of RAOUL [V] de Beaumont Vicomte du Maine & his first wife Emma de Montevrault Dame de Lude. Guillaume de Jumièges records that the second wife of Guillaume Talvas was the daughter of "Raoul vicomte de Beaumont" but does not name her[124].

Guillaume [II] & his first wife had two children:

a) ARNOUL de Bellême (-murdered). Guillaume de Jumièges names "Arnoul et Mabille" as children of Guillaume Talvas and Hildeburge, recording in a later passage his revolt against his father whom he forced into exile, and his being strangled in his bed[125].

b) MABILE (-murdered Bures 2 Dec 1079, bur 5 Dec 1079 Troarn). Guillaume de Jumièges names "Arnoul et Mabille" as children of Guillaume Talvas and Hildeburge[126]. According to Orderic Vitalis, Mabile was "a forceful and worldly woman, cunning, garrulous and extremely cruel"[127]. Guillaume de Jumièges records that her father arranged her marriage to "Roger de Montgomeri" after his exile[128]. "Rogerius comes…et sua uxor Mabilia atque suus filius Rotbertus" donated property to Notre-Dame de Bellême by charter dated to [1070/79][129]. She was murdered by Hugh Bunel, son of Robert "de Jalgeio" from whom she had taken his castle, who found her "relaxing in bed after a bath [and] struck off her head with his sword"[130]. "Roger ex Northmannis Northmannus son of Roger" donated property to St Martin, Troarn for the soul of "his wife Mabel lately deceased" by charter dated to [1079/82], subscribed by "Rogerii comitis, Rotberti filii eius, Hugonis, Rogerii, Philippi, Arnulfis [filiorum eius]"[131].

m ([1050/54]%29 ROGER [II] de Montgommery, son of ROGER [I] de Montgommery Seigneur de Montgommery and Vicomte de l'Hiémois & his wife Josceline --- (-Shrewsbury 27 Jul 1094, bur Shrewsbury Abbey). Sire d'Alençon. He was created Earl of Shrewsbury in 1074.

Guillaume [II] had one illegitimate child by an unknown mistress:

c) OLIVIER de Mesle (-after 28 May 1053). Guillaume de Jumièges names Oliver as brother of Arnoul, recording that he was suspected of murdering his brother and later became a monk at Bec[132]. It is assumed that he was illegitimate as the same source in another passage names the two children of Guillaume [II] by his first wife. Yves Bishop of Sées confirmed the sale of the church of Courgains, with the consent of "fratre episcopi Willelmo, et Oliverio et Warino et Rodulfo episcopi nepotibus", by charter dated 28 May 1053[133]. A later charter of Abbé Avesgaud summarises the sale, stating that it was made with the consent of "episcopi Sagiensis, Ivonis nomine, et Willelmi fratris predicti Sagiensis episcopi…etiam Warino et Willelmo filiis Roberti, Olivario Willelmi filio, Radulfi filio Warini, et Seginfredo filio Willelmi de Bellisimo"[134]. He left descendants known as "Oison"[135], but the primary source which confirms their existence has not yet been identified.

http://armidalesoftware.com/issue/full/Thaler_847_main.html#N1

Section KC: Descendants of Count Fulk de Corbonais

David Thaler

18043 NE 132nd St, Redmond WA 98052

Send questions and corrections to: dthaler@microsoft.com

HTML generated by Issue v1.3.6 on 8 Dec. 2008

http://www.armidalesoftware.com/issue/

From Thaler_export.ged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generation One

1. COUNT FULK1 DE CORBONAIS was born between 827 and 983, and died between 887 and 1093. He married ROLAIS. [3]

Child: + 2 i. IVRES I2 DE BELESME, d. in 997; m. GODCHILDE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generation Two

2. IVRES I2 DE BELESME (Fulk de CORBONAIS1), son of (1) Count Fulk1 and Rolais, was born between 887 and 983, and died in 997[3]. He married GODCHILDE. [3]

Child: + 3 i. COUNT GUILLAUME I3 DE ALENCON, d. in 1028; m. MAUD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generation Three

3. COUNT GUILLAUME I3 DE ALENCON (Ivres I de BELESME2, Fulk de CORBONAIS1), son of (2) Ivres I2 and Godchilde BELESME, was born between 918 and 998, and died in 1028[3]. He married MAUD. [3]

Child: + 4 i. WILLIAM4 TALVAS, d. in 1070; m. HILDEBURGE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generation Four

4. WILLIAM4 TALVAS (Guillaume I de ALENCON3, Ivres I de BELESME2, Fulk de CORBONAIS1), son of (3) Count Guillaume I3 and Maud, was born between 966 and 1012, and died in 1070[1]. He married HILDEBURGE. [3, 2]

Child: + 5 i. MABEL5 of Alencon, Eure, France, b. circa 1026, d. in 1079; m. (AAL-5) ROGER DE MONTGOMERY, EARL OF SHREWSBURY in 1048.

William was also called Guillaume II d'Alençon.

William was a cruel and barbarous man.

He married Hildeburge (?), daughter of Arnoul (?) chevalier, before 1005.

William cursed the Conqueror (William the Bastard, long before he conquered anything) in his cradle in 1028.

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p348.htm#i4645 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )

read more

William I Talvas From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Map of the lands of Bellême

William I Talvas (c. 995 – 1052), seigneur of Alençon. According to Orderic Vitalis his nickname Talvas meaning shield, presumably alluded to his hardness or callousness like that of a shield. He was a member of the House of Bellême.

Contents

   1 Life

   2 Family

   3 Notes

   4 References

   5 External links

Life

He was a son of William of Bellême and Mathilde of Condé-sur-Noireau. He held lands at Bellême, Domfront and Alençon,[1] He obtained the lands of Bellême from his brother Yves de Bellême, Bishop of Séez[a][2] who held them of the King of France while Alençon was held of the Duke of Normandy and Domfront of the Count of Maine[3]

While as treacherous and self-serving as any of his family before him he surpassed them in wickedness and cruelty.[4] He had married a Hildeburg, daughter of a nobleman named Arnulf, but he had his wife strangled on her way to church, according to Orderic, because she loved God and would not support his wickedness.[4] William married secondly a daughter of Ralf de Beaumont, Viscount of Le Mans.[5]

Among the private feuds going on during the minority of Duke William was one that erupted between William Talvas and William fitz Giroie. William fitz Giroie was a vassal of William Talvas and his father Giroie, Lord of Échauffour had assisted Talvas' father and uncle in the struggles against Herbert I Wake-dog, Count of Maine.[b] William fitz Giroie himself had greatly assisted William Talvas in obtaining his own lands, apparently by force.[4] But William fitz Giroie was also a vassal of Geoffrey de Mayenne, an adherent, in turn, of the Count of Maine. About 1044 William Talvas attacked the castle of Montaigu which was being defended by William fitz Giroie. Unable to defeat the castle William Talvas captured Geoffrey de Mayenne and held him prisoner until William Fitz Giroie destroyed the castle of Montaigu.[6] William fitz Giroie immediately razed his own castle to free his lord and in return Geoffrey de Mayenne built fitz Giroie a new castle at St. Cenery on the river Sarthe.[7] This apparently caused great resentment in William Talvas.[6]

On the occasion of his second wedding, William Talvas invited William fitz Giroie to attend. Suspecting nothing fitz Giroie while a guest at the festivities was suddenly seized by Talvas' men and imprisoned, then according to Orderic horribly mutilated and blinded before being released.[6] Somehow William Giroie survived his torture and mutilation and retired to Bec Abbey to live out the remainder of his life as a monk.[8] To avenge this atrocity the sons and kinsmen of William fitz Giroie sacked and destroyed the lands of William Talvas who would not face them in the field.[9] Finally, Talvas' son Arnulf rebelled and exiled his father, now reviled by everyone.[9] He wandered until he was taken in by the de Montgomery family whose son Roger agreed to marry his daughter Mabel in return for the lands William lost.[6] It seems certain that after the death of Arnulf the following year, that William Talvas recovered his lands.[6] William confirmed a gift to St. Aubin of Angers made by his brother Yves circa 1060-2 and after that nothing more is heard of him.[6]

William II, Signeur d'Alencon and Belesme Talvis

–1070

Birth Unknown

Death ABT 1070

William II, Signeur d'Alencon and Belesme Talvis was born, the son of William. He had one daughter with Hildeburg. He died in 1070.

Death of Father

His father William, Count of Alencon passed away in 1031.



William, Count of Alencon Talvis

–1031

ABT 1031

1067

Death of Wife

His wife Hildeburg passed away in 1067.



Hildeburg

–1067

1067

ABT

1070

Death

William II, Signeur d'Alencon and Belesme Talvis died in 1070.

ABT 1070