Elen ferch Llewelyn, the elder

Not the same as Elen ferch Lleywelyn, the younger

Biography

updated 7 November 2024

Elen ferch Llywelyn was born about 1208. She was the daughter of Llywelyn Fawr ap Iorwerth and Joan, natural daughter of King John of England. She is sometimes called Elen, or Helen, the Elder, because another Helen is attributed to Llywelyn, born a couple of decades later, and referred to as Helen the Younger.

Elen the Elder, also called Elen of Wales, died before 5 August 1253 when royal escheators were ordered to restore to her husband Robert de Quincy "lands that his deceased wife had held, as he had a child by her." [7] An inquest post mortem was held for her on 10 November 1253.

A writ after the death of "Eleanor, sometime the wife of John Earl of Chester", dated "the eve of St Martin 38 Hen III", records the "partition of her lands between Si J. de Bayllol, Robert de Brus, and Henry de Hasting, the heirs of the said earl"[291]. [2]

Family

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Scotland,_Earl_of_Huntingdon

John of Scotland (or John de Scotia or John le Scot), 9th Earl of Huntingdon and 7th Earl of Chester (c. 1207 – 6 June 1237), sometimes known as "the Scot", was an Anglo-Scottish magnate, the son of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon by his wife Matilda of Chester, daughter of Hugh de Kevelioc.

John married Elen ferch Llywelyn, daughter of Llywelyn the Great, in about 1222.

John died childless on 6 June 1237, aged 30. He too, like his uncle Ranulph before him, left three sisters as his co-heirs.

From https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ferch_Llewelyn-1

Matthew of Paris records that it was suspected that his wife "filia Leolini" poisoned John “the Scot”[290]. [2]

She was forced by King Henry III (her mother's half-brother) to marry Sir Robert de Quincy, before 5 December 1237. Robert de Quincy, Lord of Ware, was the son of Saher de Quency, 1st Earl of Winchester and Margaret de Beaumont.

Children of Helen ferch Llywelyn and Robert de Quincy, Lord of Ware, born after their marriage in 1237:

1. Anne, a nun[6]
2. Joan de Quincy (-25 Nov 1284), married Humphrey de Bohun, son of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex, & his first wife Maud de Lusignan[6]
3. Hawise ([1250]-before 27 Mar 1285), married (before 5 Feb 1268) Baldwin Wake, son of Hugh Wake & his wife Joan de Stuteville[6]

Sir Robert de Quincy died at a tournament at Blie in August 1257, without male issue.

Descendants

Their daughter, Hawise, was married to Baldwin Wake, Lord Wake of Lidel. Hawise and Baldwin’s granddaughter, Margaret Wake, was the mother of Joan of Kent, later Princess of Wales.

Joan of Kent was the wife of Edward, the Black Prince and the mother of Richard II of England, who was deposed and died without heirs.

Notes

Countess of Huntingdon and Chester
House of Aberffraw (by birth)
House of Dunkeld (by marriage)
The arms of the Aberffraw House of Gwynedd were traditionally first used by Elen's grandfather, Iorwerth Drwyndwn.

Disambiguation

There is also a record of a "Helen" daughter of "Llywelyn of Wales" who married Mormaer Maol Choluim II, Earl of Fife and later married Domhnall I, Earl of Mar. The dates appear to rule out this being Elen, since Maol Chaluim II did not die until 1266 while Elen's death is recorded in 1253. Some genealogists propose the existence of another Elen, an illegitimate daughter born towards the end of Llywelyn's life, but there is no clear evidence for this. Another possibility is that this Helen might have been an illegitimate daughter of Llywelyn the Last born when he was a young man, but there is also no evidence of the theory being true. More likely this lady was Susannah ferch Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, who was sent to England in 1228 and married the earl of Fife in the summer of 1237.

See more at https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WALES.htm#Llywellyndied1240B

Prince Llywelyn had four illegitimate children by Mistresses (3) - (7):

9. [HELEN] (before [1230]-after 16 Feb 1295). ... m [firstly] [as his first wife,] MALCOLM Earl of Fife, son of DUNCAN Macduff of Fife & his wife Alice Corbet (-1266). [m secondly (after 1266) DONALD Earl of Mar, son of WILLIAM Earl of Mar & his first wife Elizabeth Comyn of Buchan (-after 25 Jul 1297).]

Genealogy

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WALES.htm#Llywellyndied1240B

Prince Llywelyn m secondly/thirdly (after 16 Apr 1205) JOAN [of England], illegitimate daughter of JOHN King of England & his mistress Clementia Pinel (-30 Mar 1237).

Prince Llywelyn and his second/third wife had three children:

2. HELEN (-1253 before 24 Oct). The Annales Cestrienses record in 1222 that “Johannes filius comitis David” married “filiam Lewelini” in accordance with the agreement between him and “comitem Cestrie”[307]. The Annals of Dunstable record that “Johannes comes Cestriæ” died in 1237 and “eius uxor…filia Lewelini” married “Roberto [de Quinci]” against her father´s wishes[308]. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified. Matthew Paris records that it was suspected that his wife "filia Leolini" poisoned John “the Scot”[309]. A writ after the death of "Eleanor, sometime the wife of John Earl of Chester", dated "the eve of St Martin 38 Hen III", records the "partition of her lands between Si J. de Bayllol, Robert de Brus, and Henry de Hasting, the heirs of the said earl"[310].

m firstly (1222) JOHN "the Scot" Earl of Huntingdon, son of JOHN of Scotland Earl of Huntingdon & his wife Matilda of Chester ([1207]-Darnal [5/7] Jun 1237, bur Chester St Werburg). He was created Earl of Chester 21 Nov 1232.

m secondly (1237 before 5 Dec) ROBERT de Quincy, son of SAHER Earl of Winchester & his wife Margaret of Leicester (-Aug 1257).

References

1. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ferch_Llewelyn-1 cites
   1. Wikipedia: Elen ferch Llywelyn (the Elder). Accessed Feb 26, 2016
   2. Charles Cawley. Llywellyn ap Iorwerth, entry in "Medieval Lands" database (accessed 18 April 2019). https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WALES.htm#Llywellyndied1240B
   3. Cawley, John Scot, database entry (accessed 18 April 2019). https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SCOTLAND.htm#JohnScotdied1237
   4. John of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon, Wikipedia.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Scotland,_Earl_of_Huntingdon
   5. The Annales Cestrienses; d. 1237 (The Annals of Dunstable)
   6. Cawley, Robert de Quincy, database entry (accessed 18 April 2019). https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL2.htm...
   7. 'Close Rolls, August 1253', in Calendar of Close Rolls, Henry III: Volume 7, 1251-1253, ed. A E Stamp( London, 1927), British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-close-rolls/hen3/vol7/pp402-415 [accessed 7 November 2024]. (Subscription needed)
   8. "Royal Ancestry" Douglas Richardson 2013 Vol. V. p. 302
   9. Chauncy, Henry. The Historical Antiquities of Hertfordshire (J.M. Mullinger, London, 1826) Vol. 1, Page 398 < GoogleBooks >
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elen_ferch_Llywelyn cites
   1. "Llywelyn ap Iorwerth". Dictionary of Welsh Biography. National Library of Wales.
      1. Pierce, T. J., (1959). LLYWELYN ap IORWERTH (or 'Llywelyn the Great', often styled 'Llywelyn I', though in strictness the first prince of that name was Llywelyn ap Seisyll; 1173-1240, prince of Gwynedd. Dictionary of Welsh Biography. Retrieved 7 Nov 2024, from https://biography.wales/article/s-LLYW-API-1173 Spouse: Joan. (8 children listed). Helen ferch Llywelyn ap Iorwerth. "... A statesmanlike desire to conciliate his neighbours of the march is seen in the marriages which he arranged for his children: ... and Helen married John, the nephew of her father's closest ally, Ranulf, earl of Chester."
   2. Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Families: The Complete Genealogy (London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 194.
   3. Deborah Fisher (2005). Princesses of Wales. University of Wales Press. p. 15. ISBN 9780708319369.
   4. "Child of the Phoenix". barbara-erskine.co.uk.
   5. "The Welsh Trilogy". sharonkaypenman.com. 17 February 2022.
3. Helen ferch Llywelyn, https://thepeerage.com/p10776.htm#i107759 cites
   1. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Families: The Complete Genealogy (London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 194. Hereinafter cited as Britain's Royal Families.
   2. [S1126] K. Thompson, "re: Helen ap Llywelyn," e-mail message to Darryl Lundy, 19 August 2004. Hereinafter cited as "re: Helen ap Llywelyn."
   3. [S16] Jirí Louda and Michael MacLagan, Lines of Succession: Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe, 2nd edition (London, U.K.: Little, Brown and Company, 1999), table 12. Hereinafter cited as Lines of Succession.
   4. [S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume III, page 169. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage.
   5. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Families, page 209.
4. John the Scot, 10th Earl of Huntingdon https://thepeerage.com/p10776.htm#i107758
5. Robert de Quincy, Lord of Ware https://thepeerage.com/p10776.htm#i107760