Change in what you can see on some Profiles - due to what??

Lois - it is my understanding that this is due to a release and that it differs, depending upon the individual's privacy setting. I believe that this is being addressed and that we will get back the views that we had before or at least more than we see now, but I will check to see where the discussion is tonight in the discussion thread about this.

We just released many updates that put back what we think should be viewable on these profiles. The primary purpose of this is enhanced privacy, particularly for people who have elected to NOT be publicly searchable (at http://www.geni.com/account_settings/permissions )

As always, we're interested in hearing your feedback.

Mike, here is the new result. This is a collaborator
Private User

Eldon keep in mind that I don't see David's profile the same way you do -- I'm not collaborating with him. So I'll ask you for your opinion: do you feel like the profile is missing anything that you consider essential to your ability to collaborate with him on public profiles?

Mike, Hatte -

Yes, much has returned. Looks like Activity, Projects now visible again.

However, when I click on Mike Stangel's name above (in blue) I see your profile with Current Location, Immediate Family, and Added by: (as well as comment that "You are connected to Mike Stangel"). When I click on Hatte's name above (in blue) I do not get a message saying she is connected to me, do not see family, do not see Added by:

Mike -- I can see nothing in the settings at : http://www.geni.com/account_settings/permissions that would account for this difference. If you do, please elaborate for me. My suspicion remains it has to do with Connected or not -- not with settings.
Hatte - any other privacy settings that you are aware of that can account for this? Also, Hatte - is there another discussion thread about this, or were you referring to this one?

A problem, in my view, is when you present a potential merge. It used to be you could click on the other family members to get their family info. Just had a situation where someone said "Yes, think these two are the same" -- based on her first and last name matching plus her husband's name matching - that was it. I had lots on her, little on her husband. Wondered if the other person had come to her via her husband, and thus did not have her siblings, parents, etc. By clicking on her husband (in view /compare the two profiles, on the profile not managed by me) - could see info on her husband's family - so had something to compare with info I had found for him - but last time I checked -- poof - clicking on his name no longer got me his family info.

Considering that Familly Info/Immediate Family shows after the geni-search -- is there a reason to hide it on the profile?

Lois there is another discussion thread at http://www.geni.com/discussions/92365

Lois: Mike has indicated that the key privacy setting that can account for the different ways you see different profiles is the setting

"Let the public search for me (profile privacy settings apply)"

at http://www.geni.com/account_settings/permissions

Finally logged out, looked - do see when logged out, Hatte is "Private User" (which I believe means has set to not searchable by Public), Mike still has name showing in blue (so guess has set to yes, let the public search for you). So perhaps it is not Connected or not connected - but is choosing "Let the public search for me" - Yes shows family on profile to Geni members, no does not; Yes tells if you are connected to the Person, No does not. And what other differences? Not at all obvious that choosing not to let Public search for one would affect what Geni members see. Think this should be a separate column.

Will look at discussion David mentions to see if it is addressed there. Thanks for that link David.

David -- your response popped above mine when I finally finished and saved it. (according to time stamp, 7 minutes after you did your entry.)

The comments I made above on non-obviousness, etc. still stand.

Lois - people choose privacy settings. My privacy setting is for people to see my location and profile photo but not About Me, other photos, maiden name. So the difference between people has to do with what options they have clicked on in their privacy settings.

I don't know what people saw before since I see everything. Maybe Geni can explain what changed.

Lois I agree with your comment that it is not at all obvious what "Let the public search for me (profile privacy settings apply)" really means in practice.

Hatte - Nope, Currently your Location is not showing when I click on you. So that is not where they are taking this info from. However, unlike when I started this discussion - I can now see in your Profile - your Activity, your Projects, your Collaborators, your Followers and who you are Following, your User Statistics, and your Public Guestbook - none of which I could see then. All this but not your Family or if we are connected.

Mike, Maybe I'm unusual but I want to be able to learn about people I am collaborating with. If they are keeping things private, I want to know. Even if the family names are there that's fine. I also want to be able to see the tree. This is a family tree isn't it?. I had no problems before the changes. I would just ignore anyone who was private figuring they did not want to be disturbed. Also you cant tell now if the person has abandoned a tree so you can report it.

Hatte Blejer (absent until Nov 1), Mike Stangel
Near to Privacy settings menus we need something like "Profile Preview" - I think that similar functions are in LinkedIn, FaceBook, Orkut etc.

User shall know how her/his profile page will look:
A) For Immediate Family
B) For other family group members
C) For collaborators (and also Curators)
D) For other Geni user (inside the Geni)
E) For all public (outside the Geni, logged off, no cookies etc)

Without these 5 profile previews nobody can choose own privacy settings correctly.

NB! It will be nice if manager can have these 5 profile previews somehow available also for each managed profiles category:

1. Private child (living)
2. Private living
3. Private deceased
4. Public living
5. Public deceased
6. Halfly claimed (Claimed user who hadn't set permanent password and has still manager).

Lauri
P.S. If needed - open Help Tickets for these requests!

P.S. As it can be read from here: http://www.geni.com/discussions/89069?msg=692755
The new privacy changed also rights to Photos and Albums so some Profile Photos are already "lost"

Since yesterday I have problems too.
This here is what some profiles outside my tree now looks like:

Send Message
Request to Collaborate

And the text is placed in the middle of the profile - not as usual to the right.

How on earth should users on Geni who are not pro etc. be able to find duplicate profiles. It was difficult before - but now it looks impossible :)

Lauri Kreen - I agree. We need to have different levels.

I didn't not realize that my privacy settings hid so much from collaborators and fellow curators. I actually thought when I choose those settings that it was the search from outside Geni that I was choosing the privacy level.

I would like to have a part of my About Me that is public but have the rest only accessible to those who I collaborate with, or in my family group, or curators. Otherwise I guess I have to keep my About Me entirely impersonal.

I started a couple of weeks ago to put the About Me in my public profiles in a document. Because I found out that all my information in About Me appeared in Google.

But what about the problem with the lay out in other profiles outside my tree. Is it going to be solved or is it the way it'll look from now on? (my post 12:52).

The relationship path at the top should not have been hidden -- that's a bug and we'll be fixing it within the hour.

I agree that it seems odd that claimed profiles differ based on "Let the public search for me." One way to make sense of it, is to think of it as making your own profile either public or private (except that collaborators and curators can edit/merge public, unclaimed profiles but not "public" claimed profiles). Maybe there's room to remove that setting altogether, and just put the public/private checkbox on your own profile.

Regarding "what Google sees" vs. "what other Geni users see" there are so many Geni users that from an actual privacy perspective there's not much difference. I agree with Eldon that it's nice to know something about the people with whom you're collaborating, but I don't think it's fair for Geni to make that compulsory -- just because I'm willing to work with someone on the Mayflower profiles, doesn't mean I should be able to see personal information about their kids.

We've been slowly adding data to the side-by-side merge comparison to the point where a private profile is no longer private if you can paste its profile ID into a merge/compare URL. That's the fundamental reason for the merge permissions changes.

The rules are currently as follows. You may view the merge comparison if:
1. You have permission to view both profiles, or
2. You have permission to view one profile, and the other is a tree match, or
3. You have permission to view one profile, and the other has already been approved to merge.

In other words, you're going to be allowed to see a private profile in the side-by-side comparison only if the Geni system or a user who can edit that private profile thinks the merge is valid. Many of you have seen permissions errors when clicking the "requested merge" icon in the tree (blue circle w/ white +) -- we obviously need to fix those so that we're not baiting you to click on something and then telling you that you cannot see it.

I totally agree with Lauri Kreen's suggestions.
Let me know if/when there is a Help Ticket for it, and I will "Me Too" it.

Definitely also think privacy from Geni users should be separate from "Don't let the Public Search for me" -- which I ended up checking when Geni switched from Forum (where we could use pseudonym) to Public Discussions and these had our name attached to our discussion -- and if we Let the Public Search -- then it was there when they view discussions from outside Geni - if we don't let public search, then it says "Private User" if we look from outside Geni.

Last I looked -- Help messages always show us by our name -- no way to have Privacy at all, no way to avoid showing up on Google Search if enter comment in Help -- is this correct?

Mike wrote:
The rules are currently as follows. You may view the merge comparison if:
1. ...
2. You have permission to view one profile, and the other is a tree match, or
3. ...

It seems rule 2 only applies if you use the Pro tree matching functionality. You cannot set up a merge with a private duplicate that you spot in the search engine, even if the Geni system does think the merge is valid.

This morning I set my merge center to Managed by My Collaborators. Requested Merges. The first 18 Gave me the You don't have permission to view this page message. The system is clearly still broken.

David, some of these were yours so I can't help you.

Eldon, I can't help myself either! I have the same problem in my own merge centre.

Simply put, three weeks ago, Mike Stangel wrote:

"Many of you have seen permissions errors when clicking the "requested merge" icon in the tree (blue circle w/ white +) -- we obviously need to fix those so that we're not baiting you to click on something and then telling you that you cannot see it."

This was "obvious" three weeks ago, and I believe it is still obvious now, but the fix is not yet implemented.

Working on it... :-)

Mike Stangel, you said:
"We've been slowly adding data to the side-by-side merge comparison to the point where a private profile is no longer private if you can paste its profile ID into a merge/compare URL."

What data has been added? I've only been a Geni user for a year but during this time I've only seen data taken from the side-by-side merge comparison not added. If I remember correctly there used to be maiden names for private profiles and half-siblings in the merge request view.

I do not understand how is a private profile less private if search results return more data than the side-by-side merge comparison, i.e half-siblings?

"You may view the merge comparison if:
1. You have permission to view both profiles"

Could you explain please how adding to your family group every manager of a duplicate profile improves privacy? After you are a manager's relative you only have the option to merge not to request for it to be approved by both sides.

"2. You have permission to view one profile, and the other is a tree match"

Merge centre is now only useful for matches found by Geni - there are so many cases when magic bubbles appear for children and one spouse but not the other even when there is no difference in the spelling of names or other data. The result is a half merged tree and even when boxes appear pink and blue in tree conflict view and you're able to drag them together you end up with an error message (in red, as if you've done something wrong only by trying to follow Geni's goal of one profile per person).

"3. You have permission to view one profile, and the other has already been approved to merge."

Approved to merge by who? I may be mistaken but to compare 2 private profiles you need to have edit rights for both of them and then the only option is to merge not to request one.

"In other words, you're going to be allowed to see a private profile in the side-by-side comparison only if the Geni system or a user who can edit that private profile thinks the merge is valid."

Not all managers are active but they may have family members who are. Now relatives are unable to complete merges in merge centre as they are never requested because the manager has not responded to a family group invitation.

Mike Stangel My PRO renewal is coming up next month. In light of the obstacles now in the way of working with Geni, can you give me reasons why I should renew?

The most problematic thing is that even the curators don't have official way to initiate merges of private profiles (as without family group we also have no rights to see these private ones).
Is the Family Group limit still 500? I will soon reach it (due to new privacy rules).

There is no limit in family group, - I am listed with 2139 extra family group members.

We've released some updates to the privacy problem on requested merges, that I hope will make the issue easier to manage while still protecting the privacy of other users' private profiles.