High Kings?

Ugh, that was supposed to parse wiki markup. Pretend that middle paragraph is quoted.

It would be more accurate to label them as High King of ireland or Ard-rí na h'Éireann. Scholars doubt the institution. They believe that Ireland was dotted with regional / tribal kingdoms, and that there was no overall king. So if there was no overall king, there would not have been a King of Ireland.

Our medieval sources give us lists of High Kings. Our only options are (1) follow the sources and call them High Kings, or (2) follow modern scholarship and strip them of the title altogether.

The second is very tempting. We could give them their lesser title (King of Leinster, King of Connaught, etc.), but for consistency we'd need to also follow modern scholarship: correct the medieval sources as far as we're able, remove the kings who are thought to be fictitious or mythological, and cut their relationships to one another unless supported by other evidence.

In the end, I would argue that it is better to leave these lines intact as given in the medieval sources, with their traditional title of High King, and a warning that neither the individuals nor their titles are fully supported by modern scholarship.

I tend to follow the modern theories, that they were most likely tribal chiefs (for lack of a better word) and that we should title them (at most "Ri na Ciannacht" (for Connaught) or a generic "Ri na h'Éireann" and the like.

I especially get confused by the numbered lists of kings (i. e., 104th High King of Ireland) which seem to account differently for titles, joint rulers, tribes, and dynasties. Maybe we should name our projects by the academic method so that we'd have "Medieval High Kings of Ireland", "Historical Rulers of Ireland" (which would follow the theories of modern research), "Kings of Cruithne", "Milesian Dynasty of the Kings of Ireland", et. al., so that we can account for historically accurate and mythological variants of the accounts of the Kings.

That was supposed to be "Maybe we should name our projects by both the academic and mythological methods".

Excellent suggestion! The nice thing about projects is that we can divide them in many ways and allow people to find the focus they want to see.

Great! So we'll use this project for the rulers that modern academia asserts held title "High Kings of Ireland?"

If you originally intended this project to be for some other purpose, I will defer to you to create those projects. "All Rulers of Ireland" would be a great top-level project. I'd be a good person to head up the ancient dynastic projects, say, pre-1000 AD. Any opinions you have on this would be appreciated.

Let's leave this project as the full list of traditional High Kings, then create the other projects we need for the subsets. I created a Kings of Tara project a few days ago, intending that one to become the historical kings - but, that's up for discussion and debate. Maybe there's a better name for them.

i like both of you all's suggestions: retain the titles and then add the modern correction. It makes the most sense and would help to compartmentalize the different kings according to their situations.

Less confusion if both conventions are observed; it might actually create a line of clarity for others who come along to read up on the "High Kings of Ireland".

So, I didn't see Maguire/mcguire on your list, but Maguires were well known kings and their history is not made of fiction or fantasy, as they ruled for quite a long time and most recently. We also have a Maguire castle and Maguire bridge. Please add us in there! Thanks

Lettie,

There is already a Kings of Fer Manach (Fermanagh) project. I added a few of the kings this morning. If you have good information, you might want to make this your pet project. I don't know much of anything about them, and it sounds like you do!

http://www.geni.com/projects/Kings-of-Fer-Manach

I finished enumerating the Milesian Dynasty (except for three whose ancestry I couldn't find) today, and updated this project as well.

Erin, I've been watching your progress over the past few days. You are one amazing woman! And, just in time for St. Pat's. I intend to treat myself to a (very small) whisky tonight, and I'll be sure to raise a toast to you.

Happy St. Patricks Day to all!!!

Thanks, Justin! :D

According to Irish law, High King is combined Kingdoms. It is a newer form of the name since the William the Conqueror merging of all the families. According to the law, any royal family member can make a High king claim as we are all equal cousins, equally descent of all Kingdoms. It can also be called King of Kings and Lord of Lords, or Emperor as these titles are all merged. That is the clear definition of High King. At one time High King may have been just one branch but now it refers to the entire family.

Any global governance will revive the High King Laws.