The Amal Clan of the Ostrogoths

<claps and curtsies>

Thank you so much, Ben. This is a huge new contribution to geni.com.

This is fantastic - Gapt, Progenitor of the Amals is my 45th great grandfather!

http://www.geni.com/path/Noah+Tutak+is+related+to+Gapt+Progenitor+o...

Should we collect these profiles into a project?

Hi Noah:

If anyone would like to turn them into a project, I wouldn't object.

As to 45th ggf... seems like Gapt was somewhere in the upper 60s for me when I first added him to the tree in July. May have to scan through the birth and death dates on your lineage there. It's possible, of course:

1980 years / 47 generations = about 42 years per generation. But I'd be guessing that there are probably some generations skipped in that line. Either that or it's very much a paternal lineage...

Ever onward toward a more accurate tree, of course... -Ben.

Ben,

I can make the Project IF you give me a good summary URL for the overview to copy and paste.

You should probably also do a very brief explanation of the naming conventions you used.

Ben, you should path it again. I get 44th gg from Gapt which is consistent with Noah's results: you will get in the same neighborhood.

My lines go through Kings of Scotland, Vikings, and Franks, which have all been going through intense clean up activity.

I have some confidence in accuracy of my pedigree to here:
wife of Alexander Stewart

But there are likely some gaps of course.

Truly a wonderful addition. Thanks, Ben. It took some doing, but I finally got Geni to find a path to Gapt as a 42nd great grandfather. I'm particularly pleased that you resisted the equation Gapt = Gautr = Odin. (No offense to our Odin fans, I hope.) I have some stuff to send you to help flesh out the detail. Will do that soon, I promise.

Bravo, Ben! Thanks! I'm loving history more and more - especially when I become part of it. Gapt is a 44th great grandfather.

Okay... couldn't find the original lineage I saved, but I retraced it from one I did for Yaroslav Mudriy (Grand Prince of Kiev Rus); will share here starting at Generation 5 (with my daughter being Generation 0 and myself at Generation 1).

The Yaroslav lineage shares the common line through to Hugues de Vermandois, "faint-hearted" leader of the First Crusade. As a key, I've put the generation number first, then the name, then their birth and death years, then where they were, and lastly the year they became parent:

53. Theodomir (425-474, Hungary to Greece, 43)
52. Amalafreda (468-526, Hungary to Frankish Germany, Unknown)
51. Amfleda the Younger of Thuringia (d. 556, Thuringia, Unknown, but it isn’t 10)
50. Rodelinde of Thuringia (510-560, Thuringia to Italy, Unknown)
49. Grasulf of Friuli (d. 571, Lombard Italy, Unknown)
48. Gisulf of Friuli (d. 590, Lombard Italy, Unknown, but it isn’t 12)
47. Daughter of Gisulf (b. 585, Lombard Italy, 15)
46. “Fara of Bavaria” (600-641, Italy to Bavaria, 25)
45. Theodo II von Bayern (625-716, Bavaria, 32)
44. Daughter of Theodo II (657-707, Bavaria, 18)
43. Huoching von Alemannia (675-744, Bavarian Rhine, 60)
42. Imma von Alemannia (735-783, Bavarian Rhine, 23)
41. Hildegard, wife of Charlemagne (758-783, Rhine region, 19)
40. Carloman/Pepin I d’Italie (777-810, Italy, 20)
39. Bernard I d’Italie (797-818, Italy, 18)
38. Pepin I (de Vermandois?, 815-850, Picardy, 33)
37. Heribert I de Vermandois (848-907, Picardy, 32)
36. Beatrix de Vermandois (880-931, Picardy, 18)
35 Hugues the Great (898-956, France, 42)
34. Hugues Capet (940-996, France, 32)
33. Robert II de France (972-1031, France, 36)
32. Henri I de France (1008-1060, France, 45)
31. Hugues I “Le Maisne” de Vermandois (Comte de Vermandois, First Crusade Leader, 1053-1102, Normandy, 35)
30. Isabelle de Warenne (de Vermandois, 1088-1131, Normandy to Surrey England, 32)
29. Gundred de Lancaster (de Warenne, 1120-1166, Surrey England to Northern England, 34)
28. William II de Lancaster (Baron of Kendal, 1154-1184, Northern England, 18)
27. Hawise FitzReinfrid (de Lancaster, 1172-1226, Northern England, 28)
26. Hawise de Brus (de Lancaster, 1200-1246, Northern England, 30)
25. Agnes de Faucomberge (de Brus, 1230-1280, Yorkshire, England, 40)
24. Anice Engaine (de Faucomberge, 1270-1323, Yorkshire, England, Unknown age)
23. Sir John Engaine (Unknown)
22. Elizabeth Pabenham (Engaine, Unknown)
21. Katherine Aylesbury (Pabenham, 1372-1436, West Country, England, 35)
20. Eleanor Stafford (Aylesbury, 1407-1467, West Country, England, 20)
19. Sir Humphrey III Stafford (Yorkist Leader in War of the Roses, 1427-1486, West Country, England, 44)
18. Anne Neville (Stafford, 1471-1513, West Country to Yorkshire, England, 23)
17. Margaret Willoughby (Neville, 1494-1517, West Country, England, 16)
16. Elizabeth Greville (Willoughby, 1510-1562, West Country, England, 45)
15. Catherine Reed (Greville, 1555-1611, West Country, England, 23)
14. Elizabeth Brent (Reed, 1578-1631, West Country England, 34)
13. Anne Calvert (Brent, 1612-1645, West Country England to Maryland Colony, 30)
12. William Calvert (1642-1682, Yorkshire England to Maryland Colony, 26)
11. George Calvert (1668-1739, Maryland to Virginia Colony, 26)
10. George Calvert (1694-1771, Virginia Colony, 30)
9. John Calvert (1724-1788, Virginia Colony, 37)
8. Chloe Jackson (Calvert, 1761-1850, Virginia to Kentucky, 17)
7. William Evan Jackson (1778-1867, Virginia to Kentucky, American Civil War, 46)
6. William Jackson (1824-1883, Kentucky to Indiana, 24)
5. Burrel A. Jackson (1848-1908, Indiana to Wyoming, 47)

The Lombard lineage is a bit messed up at the moment, as people are still merging in with dates that are completely off (probably one of my next projects is to fix all that). And of course the Charlemagne zone between him and Robert I remains a complete mess, with Charlemagne coming up as Robert's grandfather through Adelaide (who died in childhood - neat trick, that).

Now, reviewing earlier correspondence with my wife, Theodomir was originally generation 57, so I lost 4 generations somewhere by cutting out the Jean de Conteville link to the House of Flandres (which is apparently wholly fictitious). But this lineage I've greater confidence in (though the "Fara of Bavaria" link is still weakly supported).

I think another problem area is Argotta. She doesn't come up as a daughter of Theodimir in research, and her apparently lifespan and birthing years are appearing to be frightfully long.

In short, I think everyone coming up with early 40s for generations to Gapt is probably a case of Garbage-In-Garbage-Out. But it at least highlights problem areas in the tree that need fixing.

Okay, now to respond to Erica:

Summary overview? Probably the best ones would be the first three from Hisarnis - the one for Jordanes' Getica, the one for Medlands Hungary Kings, and the one for English Wikipedia's list of Ukrainian Rulers. Also, Hodgkin's work on Theodoric was useful for providing the epithets. Also the link to the Ermanrich the Goth action figure... :)

And a response to Justin: If the research would have supported Gaut, I'd have gone with it (I think I originally did). But there was a good passage that described some pretty strong reasons to go against it (as there was against linking Hulmul to Humble of the Danes and Angles, and Hisarnis to the Celts, though his name is actually Celtic for Iron). In the end, we had only one source for these names and their connections to anything - all else is speculative with nothing to back it.

To everyone else - I'm encouraging you to keep building up the tree. We're getting there...

PAX/PEACE Dear Mr. Ben, Kind Sir. How are you all doing there today now then, Angel? Well? God bless you real good, Sir. XO I LOVE this line! I have most of what you have, but you have exceeded my research by about 3 generations! XO WOO HOO! We's CUZINS, Mr. Ben! XO This is just the coolest thing since popcorn at the movies! I LOVE IT! Thank you for all of this hard work! Bless your heart! XO

Thank you Ben!!!!!

Gapt, Progenitor of the Amals is your 48th great grandfather.

Thanks Anita, but not by my count... :) (We still need to fix the tree a bit... see above.)

45 generations through one of my favourite legendary Vikings, Sigurd "snake-in-the-eye".... but that's a minority opinion about Sigurd, not his MP...

Which Sigurd is this one? Hadn't known about that lineage into the Ostrogoths...

Harald, I've seen a few mistakes in the MPs too, such as imaginary daughters where the couple (according) to have had only one known son... and my line came from the imaginary daughter, so that's a 'non-line' right there.

Harald, I've seen a few mistakes in the MPs too, such as imaginary daughters where the couple (according) to have had only one known son... and my line came from the imaginary daughter, so that's a 'non-line' right there.

Ben,

Here's the path between the Master profile for http://www.geni.com/people/Sigurd-Orm-i-%C3%B8je-Snake-Eye-Ragnarss... and your top 100 ancestor, Gapt, Progenitor of the Amals:

http://www.geni.com/path/Sigurd+Orm+i+%C3%B8je+Snake+Eye+Ragnarsson...

Let's try the validated Snake Eye again:

Sigurd "Snake-in-the-eye" Ragnarsson

Hmm -- possible mix up here?

Hildur "Hevor" Heidreksdatter

Curator note is : Don't mix up with Hildis of the Vandals.

I'd say it's quite likely a mix-up... in any case, Amfleda is targeted as one of the next ones to be worked over more completely, once I get through with all the merge request stuff I'm trying to work through today. (Someday, I'll come back to Salem...)

I've been finding more witch trials you know. Just not ready to go there.

Definetly something hokey in the relationship line on Geni.

To see if the problem causing my relationship (48th ggreat-grandfather) had been fixed to closer to what Ben thought it was (mid 50's), I clicked on Gapt's profile again.

Today he is my 17th great aunt's 30th great grandfather....???

Sounds like an issue in the Great Capetian-Carolingian War Zone... Of course these will all be taken care of at some point, but this lineage makes a great barometer on the state of the tree.

Acutally, I found that Amalasuintha was separated from Theodoric near the bottom of the Amal lineage. I've fused her back into the tree... I'm wondering if that might be the fix on the relationship line...

I just re-ran it Ben...no change in my relationship to Gapt.

Will keep looking it over... right now I'm trying to get Theodoric untangled... still trying to figure out who Argotta is...

Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to... put a family tree together...

Anita,

Remember that the database is re-indexed several times a week, so changes made in the tree -- even a substantial generational change -- may not be immediately reflected.

Erica, but I want it NOW! :)

You got me so curious about "Snake Eye" I had to check him out. He's my 27th gr grandfather.

Oh...no, Erica, I didn't know that!