Feige Freud - Feige Wenkart/Freud's birth

The only record I have found with her birth date, is her 1925 death record from Vienna (indexed by GenTeam and accessed online at FamilySearch Centers). I have checked the JRI-Poland index and the Gesher Galicia index for both Feiga Freud and Feiga Bergmann (since her mother's last name had been Bergmann). I have not noted birth record for her in Obertyn. If you would like a copy of Feiga's death record, let me know.
~ Emily Garber
emilyhgarber@gmail.com

Hi Emily and Itai,
Thank you, that was very helpful!

I don't think we can be 100% sure that the death record is indeed the same Feige Wenkart, unless it also provides some more detail than the name. I have only found a transript on JewishGen so far (1925, Volume 189 25), and it specifies the "Town" as Mödling, but otherwise does not give place or date of birth. Have you found a scan with more information, perhaps?

However, I found the marriage record from 1910-03-20 for David and Feige, also as a transcript on JewishGen: https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/glue_s2.php?test=Y&rec=0412... . This record does indeed have her birth as 1875-03-10 in Obertyn.

I'm a descendant of Feige's sister Mariem Bergmann (née Freud) and am very much interested in exchanging information on the Freuds, Bergmanns, Spinners and related families in Obertyn.

Regards,
Ivo Spira
ivo.spira@gmail.com

I have uploaded to Geni the two death related records I located for Feiga Wenkert/Wenkart. The first is her death register entry (indexed as record no. 538 in JewishGen's index) which identifies her birthplace as Obertyn, her date of death as 5 March 1925, and her date of birth as 15 August 1856. The second record is Feige Wenkart's gravestone, which I requested from and received via a Find A Grave volunteer in Vienna Zentralfriedhof. The years of birth and death are shown as 1856 and 1925. In addition, the gravestone includes memorials for family members killed during the Shoah: Lea and Nathan Wieselberg (Feige's daughter and son-in-law) and Marie Stein. I cannot recall right now who Marie Stein was, but I researched her and she is a relative by marriage.

JewishGen lists two records for Feiga Wenkert/Wenkart. One (538) I have uploaded from the digitized entry I found while visiting a FamilySearch Center. I am not clear on the origins of the second one (no. 189 25). Based upon the similar dates of death and the age, the two records are likely for the same person. Usually, I use Genteam.at as my go-to place for indexing Vienna records (JewishGen has indexed many of the same records). But no. 189 25 is not also listed on GenTeam. If I can figure out where this record is filed and I can get a copy, I will let you know. If an image of a record is available, I never go solely by the indexed version.

Two other things. Modling is a suburb of Vienna. Begr. (under comments) is probably an abbreviation for the German word Begrabnis-Statte. That means burial place - in this case, Vienna. But until we see a record, it is merely conjecture.

10 March 1875 (the same for both David and Feiga in their marriage record) is not their birth date. David is identified as 52 years old (b. about 1858) and Feige as 51 (born about 1859) in the marriage record. I believe the notation regarding the 1875 date is the date of their ritual marriage in Obertyn. This 1910 marriage is the civil registration of their marriage.

Thank you, Emily that was very thorough. I should have looked more closely at the 1875-03-10 date, which, as you say, can't be the birthdate (although it's been indexed that way). It's always better to get to the actual document.

I also somehow overlooked that there were two death records on JewishGen. Thanks for pointing this out. It does look like it's for the same person. A further puzzle, however, is that the field for the place of death in 538 gives two places: Mannswörth (to the south-east, in Schwechat) and Fischerstiege 8 in the 1. district, with the word "Wohnung" (residence, appartment) in between. Perhaps she died in Mannswörth, but lived in Fischerstiege? No doubt we can find out by looking at other records. The other record (no. 189 25) has "Mödling", however, which is also to the south of the city, but more westwards.

538 also states that she died by drowining... ("Tod durch Ertrinken").

It seems that one has to go to a FamilySearch Centre to get at some of the scans. I should try that, then.

If, as you say in you other message to me, that you plan to go to Vienna, then you should be able to see the records from the Jewish community there. FamilySearch, of course, photographed them in Vienna.

Happy New Year!

Thanks, Happy New Year!