https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dudley,_1st_Duke_of_Northumberland does not show Agnes 'Alice' Wheeler as a daughter of John Dudley, 1st Duke of Northumberland, 1st Earl of Warwick and his wife Jane Guildford, Duchess of Northumberland
She's been detached from them.
Here's the path from my tree:
https://www.geni.com/path/Amanda-Torrey-Moyer+is+related+to+Agnes-W...
Are you saying this is incorrect? we'd better fix this yes?
So you descend from Richard Wheeler, of Cranfield and we need to check that link as well.
Yes, she's been detached from parents.
What sources do you have for this family? Where did the maiden name of Dudley come from?
I found this comment about Agnes or Alice Dudley at Wikitree:
https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/969152/comments-on-alice-dudley-wheeler
On 12 Jan 2020 Anonymous Angel wrote on Dudley-1393:
Grappling with the same dear lady. Supposedly she is a daughter of Sir John Dudley Duke of Northumberland. He and Jane Guildford had about sixteen children but I can't find definitive proof she was their daughter. I have seen her as Lady Agnes Wheeler but then I find bits of information that makes me think she was as common as muck, just like myself, ha ha... Generally speaking, nobility have better pedigree record keeping than the poor in England during the time as the only true record of births, deaths, marriages and the like were written in family bibles. Still, sometimes the record-keeping of the church parishes where almost surely most nobility would be recorded would be burned, faded, handled too much to be readable any longer. I do hope if you find any credible information regarding Agnes Dudley Wheeler you would let me know. She has been most elusive! Many thanks!
(no answers yet!)
Private User - you had added Simon Feake as a husband of Alice Dudley. Do you have a reference for this?
I've detached because they are not very near each other. He's of Norfolk (in East Anglia) and she's of Bedfordshire, some 115 miles away.
But if you have good citations, we can restore the connection.
Let us know.
1. How much of this can we use?
There were few vital statistics filed in state of North Carolina in the 18th Century before the American Revolution. What we do find of most of the early settlers in the Carolinas are in tax rolls and land deeds. In this case, however, Mary is married to William Batchelor Denmark, Jr. and has a close connection to Barbara Bond through her mitchondrial connection to George Moye, father of Mourning Moye, Anne's mother.
Sarah Margaret Denmark was the oldest of William and Mary's 9 children. Amanda Torrey is a descendant of this couple.
Family and Property
Whether either Mary or Anna ever legally married William Denmark, it is certain between the two wives he sired 20 children. Mary was his first "wife" and of these 20 Mary was mother to his first 9 being:
1) Sarah Margaret (Denmark) Wise (named after her aunt Sarah Margaret)
2) Eleanor (Denmark) Hodges
3) William Denmark
4) Thomas Denmark
5) Seaborn Denmark
6) Elizabeth (Denmark) Burton
7) John Denmark
8) James Thomas Denmark Jr.
9) Margaret (Denmark) Bizzell
Will: 21 Jan 1795 Effingham Co., Georgia 6
On his father's death, sometime before 1758, William Batchelor Denmark inherited his father's land in Hyde County, North Carolina. This land was originally patented by Henry Eborn on October 5, 1730 and willed to his son Littleton Eborn who then sold it to William Denmark, "blacksmith". In Pitt County in 1766, William Batchelor Denmark and his wife, Mary Moye Denmark, sold that land to Stephen MackDowell. A deed from William Batchelor and Mary Denmark, dated August 27, 1766, conveyed 270 acres on the North side of the Machapongo River and the south side of Broad Creek, referred to as land he inherited from his father (Hyde Co., NC DB-B, p. 194-195), to Stephen MackDowell for 20 (?) pounds.
William Batchelor Denmark was on the 1762 list of taxables for Pitt County, taxed for only a poll and not owning any slaves. But he owned land in Pitt County, North Carolina as early as 1765. On May 1, 1765, a deed recorded that "William Denmark, batchelor" sold 320 acres for 23 pounds to Thomas Coomes (Pitt County, NC DB-C, p. 292). Perhaps this is when he began to use the middle name "Batchelor". John Smith of Craven County sold William Denmark 100 acres for 25 pounds on December 29, 1772. (Pitt Co., NC DB-E, p. 227). On October 11, 1774, Denmark sold land to John Gray Blount for five pounds, the deed witnessed by "Amey Moy" and Jeremiah Cox (Pitt Co., NC DB-O, p. 327).
In 1778 he was involved in three land transactions. The first was on January 18 when William Denmark of Craven County sold 280 acres to Pearson Tuter for $120 (Pitt Co., NC DB-H, p. 19). The next was on April 21 when he sold 150 acres for three pounds to Jeremiah Cox (Pitt Co., NC DB-F, p. 390). The last that year was on July 21 when he sold 150 acres for 100 pounds to Edward Buck, the deed witnessed by Henry Moye and Isaac Buck (Pitt Co., NC DB-O, p. 209).
By 1779 his estate was assessed for tax purposes by Craven County at 1,824 pounds, the county where he was living when he joined the Revolution. On January 25, 1782 William Denmark of Craven County, as #926, was allowed the sum of nine pounds and fourteen shillings for militia duty, per Captain Jesse Bryan's payroll for the New Bern Military District. Another voucher allowed him 400 pounds for "sundries". He used the two vouchers to pay his 1781 taxes to Craven County, endorsing the vouchers on the back.
Described as "of Craven County", on December 12, 1784 he sold land again to Edward Buck. This was, as in 1778, 150 acres for 100 pounds (Pitt Co., NC DB 1, p. 531). The former owner was John Smith who had obtained a patent for it in 1774. One of the witnesses to the deed was William's son Stephen Denmark and the other was Daniel Wilson. This sale may signal his departure for Georgia.
William Batchelor Denmark's first wife was Mary Moye and he later married her sister, Anna Moye. We do not know the relationship between the Moye sisters and William Batchelor Denmark's mother, Mourning Moye. There appears to have been a most unusual relationship between William and the two sisters. He had a number of children by Anna while still married to Mary. It appears that Anna and their children accompanied him to Effingham County, Georgia while Mary stayed behind with several of her children by him. However, Mary's son Seaborn accompanied his father when he migrated to Georgia. Mary eventually moved to Duplin County, North Carolina where she died in 1793.
By July 1786, William and some of his family were in Effingham County, Georgia where he applied for land grants and registered the marks of his cattle. He received grants of 200 acres on January 24, 1791 and 300 acres on June 2, 1791 both "on the Great Ogeechee river." His son Redden also received grants of land in the same area and by November 24, 1796 the two of them owned 947 acres, all in one body. On that date they sold the entire tract to Eleazer Bell who, on March 19, 1798, sold it to Joseph Holiday.
At some time before January 21, 1795, William and Anna made their informal marriage formal. In a deed of gift of that date, he gave property to his "wife", Anna and their children Stephen Denmark, Susannah Jones, Jemima Denmark, Clarissa Denmark, Martha Denmark, Lavinia Rester and Redden Denmark (Effingham Co., GA DB CD, p. 279). Anna died in 1806.
On November 10, 1810, William Batchelor Denmark and several others were granted passports by Georgia's Governor David B. Mitchel to travel from Bulloch County through the Creek Indian Nation to Warren County where William was to see his sister Abegail Travis and his daughter Susannah Jones who was married to Rev. Adam Jones. There he met and, on May 13, 1813, married Mary Cochrum. It is said that he died at the Jones home in Warren County. The 1820 census for Warren County shows a William Denmark household with one male over 45, one girl less than 10 and one female 26-45.
Death and Legacy
DNA Connections
(MUCH OF THIS INFORMATION ON WILLIAM BATCHELOR DENMARK CAME FROM RESEARCH BY JAMES H. DENMARK.) Change Date: 10 APR 2004 at 10:07:43
Father: William Denmark b: 1705/1708 in Hyde Co.,North Carolina,Or Virginia Mother: Mourning Mittom Moye b: 1718 in Hyde Co.,North Carolina Or English Province,Virginia
Marriage 1 Mary Moye b: 1745 in Ireland Married: Abt 1756 or 1761 in Beaufort Co.,North Carolina
Marriage 2 Anna Moye b: 1742 in Hyde Co.,North Carolina Married: 1730 in English Province,North Carolina Or Virginia
Sources
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=gocha... ( Marriages wives of William Batchelor Denmark)
pennypgunn originally shared this on 07 Mar 2015
[edit]
How is this relevant to Alice (d. 1620)? You descend from a "son" of Agnes', so without a daughter line, you cannot track her mt DNA. Am I right?
Try running the descendant report from Agnes' daughter Margaret Cletherow
There seems to be some transitional process happening in FamilySearch to WorldConnect
Agnes was being detached or something as Rootsweb was being moved or something
familysearch.org/tree/person/collaborate/LZGS-M5V
"The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record,"
"The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record," 86(1955):132-148, 209-221, "The Feake Family of Norfolk, London, and Colonial America," by George E. McCracken:
"Midway across the north coast of Norfolk lies the Hundred of North Greenhoe and in it, about three miles south of the sea, the parish, sometime manor, of Wighton in which the Feake family, as early as 1435, is found numerously settled. That this family reached prominence only after certain of its sons migrated to London in the sixteenth century and there became prosperous goldsmiths is evident from the complete absence of the surname from the "Visitations of Norfolk in 1563, 1589, and 1613" (Harleian Society, vol. 32), the "Visitations of Norfolk in 1664" (ibid. vol. 81; Norfolk Record Society, vols. 4-5), and Walter Rye's great work, "Norwich Families" (Norwich, 1913). The London branch of the family is represented in the records of colonial America by Henry Feake of Lynn, Sandwich, and Flushing (no. 46); by Henry's second cousin, Lieutenant Robert Feake of Watertown, Dedham, and Greenwich (no. 49); by Robert's niece Judith, wife successively, of William Palmer, Jeffrey Ferris, and John Bowers (no. 87); and by Judith's brother, Captain Tobias Feake, R.N., of Flushing (no. 88).
Since extensive and on the whole accurate accounts of the American careers of the three men were long ago printed by the late John J. Latting in "The Record," vol. II, beginning with page 12, we here turn our attention rather to the English ancestry of these four colonists which Mr. Latting was unable to identify, though he gathered some useful material on the subject.
The wills, parish registers, and other ancillary sources normally used for such a study as this, have in the present instance been augmented by framework derived from the following seventeenth-century pedigrees, none of which is at all complete, though they fit together with a minimum of inconsistency: (a) a pedigree made in 1623 for Edward Feake, son of William and grandson of James Feake of Wighton, published by Joseph Jackson Howard, ed., "Visitacon of Surry Made A° 1623, by Samuel Thompson, Windsor Herauld, and Augustyne Vincent, Rougcroix (London, no date), p.7; (b) the same pedigree with additions dating from 1667 taken from Harleian MS 1430, fol. 50, printed in the Surrey Archaeological Collections 6:310 f.; (c) a pedigree made in 1634 for John Feake, son of John, grandson of Simon, and great-grandson of the aforesaid James Feake of Wighton, contained in the Visitation of London in 1634 (Harleian Society 15:268); (d) a version of the preceding, dated 1664, taken by Mr. Latting from Harleian MS 1096, fol. 119, and, so far as we are aware, now in print only in "The Record,"11:13; (e) a partial pedigree continuing the two preceding, to be found in the "Visitation of Staffordshire 1663-4" (Staffordshire Record Society 5:126 f.); and (f) a variant of the last included in Gregory King's Staffordshire Pedigrees 1680-1700" (Harleian Society 63:85). See also John Ross Delafield, "Delafield the Family History" (privately printed, 1945), 2:540-6, appendix 16 on Feake; and Charles E. Banks, Manuscripts in the Rare Book Room, Library of Congress, folio vol. DG, p. 433. Considerable information has been generously made available by Messrs. John Insley Coddington and Clarence Almon Torrey; from the latter, especially, many items discovered by Colonel Banks but not included in the volume cited above...
Simon Feake, second son of James Feake of Wighton (no. 7) by wife Agnes, appears in his father's will in 1539, and, though without his father's name, stands at the head of the 1634 pedigree as Simon Feake of Kerdeston, while in the 1664 pedigree his father's name is given as James Feake of Wighton. In the will of his brother William in 1595 he is mentioned as having children then living. Although Simon is not specifically said to be dead, there is nothing to prove he is not, and if no error has been made in putting the family together, he is the Simon Feake of Kettleston, co. Norfolk, tanner, whose undated will was probated June 12, 1570 (Consistory Court of Norwich: 42 [Brygge]. He mentions wife Alice; leaves £10 to son John Feake, and to any one of the rest of his children xxvi s viii d. This sum is one-third of four pounds, so the other children were probably three in number, for this man died in early life. In the will of his brother William the children of Simon are each left £3/6/8, unless they had already received this sum, and since this is precisely one-third of ten pounds, we think it probable that Simon had four children in all, of whom one may have died before 1595. Property in Wesingsett, Walsingham, Sherington, and Holte, all in Norfolk, is bequeathed. The children would all seem to have been minors, as brother Robert is named executor. Children: 4:
i. John.
ii. (poss.) Mary, m. Thomas Gibbons, at St. James's Clerkenwell, Dec. 2, 1593. As she was not daughter of Simon's brothers William, Edmond or James, we put her here.
iii. (poss.) Henry, matriculated pensioner from Emmanuel College, Cambridge, Lent 1584/5; was then of Norfolk; migrated to Caius; B.A. 1588/9; ordained priest at Norwich, Jan. 1, 1595/6, rector of Warham St. Mary and St. Margaret, Norfolk (Venn and Venn, "Alumni Cantabrigienses, Part I, 2:128). We know nothing of his subsequent history and place him here because his putative brother named a son Henry. He may have been father of a Henry Feekes who m. Alice Foorde, July 30, 1620, at St. James's, Clerkenwell, and was buried there as Henry Feakes, householder, Dec. 2, 1622. Katherine, daughter of this couple, was baptised Nov. 10, 1622, buried Aug. 29, 1623, same parish.
iv. Another, d. before 1595."
I think that's just a mixup of "Alice / Agnes" on FamilySearch. Ignore. It's got nothing to do with Wheelers.
I added the will of William Wheeler (dated 18 March 1569/70) to the profiles for him and Agnes his wife, who survived him.
Their genealogy may be findable in Raymond David Wheeler. The Wheeler Genealogy - The Ancestral Wheeler Family of Cranfield, Bedfordshire, England whose Descendents Settled in Colonial New England (Dolgville, New York: Kinsystems, 1994).
It may be possible Richard Wheeler, of Cranfield's burial record is correctly cited at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Wheeler-3140
But continuing down your tree, I see Dorothy Moye as the daughter of Richard Wheeler, of Cranfield & Elizabeth Wheeler
But she's shown born 1610
Ludham, North Norfolk, Norfolk, England
And this Wheeler family is from Cranfield.
What is your source for the parentage of Dorothy who married John Moye, Sr.
Have you seen anything more recent than this 2004 discussion?
https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/moye/506/
Gloria: None of the leads I followed up proved positive.I searched myself in London and hired professional researchers in London, Worcester and Ipswich but no one was able to identify either John Moye or Dorothy's Wheeler family.Next step is to search in Ireland as there is a suspicion that John Moy/Moye may have originated there.
Yes, but it's not relevant anymore, because so far I see nothing to indicate that Dorothy (Wheeler) Moyes is the daughter of Richard Wheeler, of Cranfield of Cranfield in Bedfordshire.
If you read the discussions from genealogy.com on the origins of John Moye & Dorothy Wheeler, you'll see they hired professional genealogists in England, who could not find records for them.
And there's a suspicion that perhaps they were from Ireland.
The discussion starts here (and see the links at the bottom for continuing posts)
https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/moye/223/
I don't work on FamilySearch, Geni is quite enough for me. I use other sites for research.
The current profile for your ancestor, Dorothy Wheeler (abt 1610-3 Feb 1656) at FamilySearch, is here:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/2MTW-QMF
No parents listed.
9 sources listed here you should explore and enter the good ones into her profile.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/2MTW-QMF
But really, if you want a serious inquiry into her origins, you need a different discussion. Because she's misplaced now.
I am detaching and locking with an "origins unknown" curator note.
IF that's the marriage. Other sources say she married 1637 (in London?)
And W.G. Stanard in "Some Emigrants to Virginia" 1911) wrote:
MOYE, JOHN (d. 1645), Lower Norfolk county; married a daughter of Richard Wheeler, citizen and Innholder, of London. V. M., XIII, 407. N. Y. Gen. & Biog. Record, XL, 86.[1]
But that's the record the researchers in 2004 could not find.
I started the new discussion here:
https://www.geni.com/discussions/283526?msg=1723500
I've contributed all I know, I think.