Hi,
the ancestry of my great-grandmother Leah (Leni) Singer is not clear.
(I am a descendant of Sara Singer/Ungar through my father's mother. and my wife is a descendant of her sister Chana Singer/Friedman. My uncle's wife (my father's brother Joel Fischer's wife) is also a descendant of him through his son Aron Moshe Singer. So we are connected with this Singer family in many ways.)
Here is the information that I am certain of:
The name of Leah/Lani Singer is clear from the birth records of her children, where her name appears as Lani and her husband's name appears as Max on legal documents. They lived in Gyöngyös (also known as Jemering) right after their marriage, where they had their first set of twin girls. Max/Mordechai's gravestone indicates he was from Salgótarján, although it's uncertain if he was born there.
We also know for certain Lani's Jewish name as Leah and we also know her father's Jewish name as Efraim. which is documented within the family. also, someone (not sure who) has added the name Efraim here on Geni to Lani's profile as her Father. and we've also found the name Efraim in a different family tree from our Klein cousins. https://www.myheritage.co.il/site-family-tree-334384611/%D7%A9%D7%9...
so this is the info that I personally know for certain.
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Here are the uncertainties we are trying to clarify:
Частный профиль has written "Hello Mr . Fischer!
as for Lani Gelb,s Father his name Sigmund Gelb who was 25 years old, His father was Simon Gelb, and Sigmund Mother was
Sali Haas.
Sigmund married Mari Kohn 22 years old whose father was Samuel Kohn . the marriage was 1864
Szept. 18 I think.
I do not Know about the name Efraim, but I will look at the birth recordsThere was a big branch of the Gelb family who lived Sarospatak Hungary but they died in the holocaust. look the records in Yad Vashem. You coul try to ask the neolog jewih community in Budapest the may know who looks after the cemetery records in Gyongyos
Regards Zoltan Leipnik"
see discussion here
https://www.geni.com/discussions/277050
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A R ( a descendant of Lani's daughter Rosa) has added the following info to Lani:
her father's name a Simon and Her mother's name as Rosa (Schwartz)
Rosa Schwarcz, (Rachel)
(I have Migled with the profiles, apologies for that I thought than that I was sure with the info)
I found this same profile of Simon And Rosa Gelb (/Schwartz) Added by Частный профиль here Rosa Gelb
A R has also written the following:
"Hi Hershy. According to different records for Miksa Singer’s children he was born in Pilisvorosvar, Pest. I do not know exactly when he moved to Salgotarjan, so the fact that it says that he was from there in his grave could be due to the fact that he emigrated from there or even grew up there, I would think.
As for Leni, she was born in Beckov, so I went through the Beckov catalog on familysearch and looked for records on her and her family. This was a long time ago, and now I’ve gone through the books again and couldn’t find Leni's birth there. I could indeed have mistaken her for someone else. Do you happen to know the source of Leni's father’s name being Sigmund (Efraim)? Regards :)"
"Hi, again Hershy! I have found Sigmund, son of Simon and Sali Haas, and Mari Kohn's marriage record on Jewishgen and I am a bit confused as to how they could have been Leni's parents since they were born in 1839 and 1842 respectively.
In the Beckov books, there is a birth record for a Sali, daughter of Simon Gelb, born in 1849. Maybe there is a chance that that is Leni and the Hungarian name is just different (I have come across similar cases before). But of course, it is hard to prove that Sali and Leni are the same person :) all the best."
see our discussion here
https://www.geni.com/discussions/277747
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Here are the uncertainties i am trying to clarify:
1. whats the source that Max was Born In Pest?
2. What's the source that Lani's grave is in Salgótarján? Who added it to her profile? Yes, it makes sense because on Max's gravestone it says that he was from Salgótarján, so it makes sense that he moved back. However, I need the source. Even if you can find a Lani gravestone in Salgótarján, who says it's the same Lani?
3. What's the source that Lani was born in Beckov? Even if you can find such birth records, who says that it is the same Lani? I would guess that she was born in Gyöngyös (Jemering) where she had her first two children. That was the custom at that time, where the groom moved to the bride's living place. Again, nothing is certain; it's just my assumption.
4. As for the information added by Частный профиль, stating that Lani's father was Sigmund Gelb, born in 1839, and Mari (Kohn), born in 1842, this information can't be true if Lani was born in Beckov in 1848 because her parents would have been children at that time. But again, who says that this Lani from Beckov, born in 1848, is the same Lani as Max Singer's wife? I would guess that this is a different Lani. I would assume that our Lani was born in Gyöngyös, where she lived right after her marriage.
5. another reson Sigmund and Mari (Kohn) cannot be the parents of Lani Gelb because we have marriage records indicating that they got married on 09/18/1864, and Lani had already given birth to twins on 11/17/1867. So, Lani is clearly not Sigmund's child, as suggested by Частный профиль?through=6000000006637675005. Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that Lani was Simon's and Rosa Schwarcz, (Rachel) daughter because the name Simon does not indicate the name Efraim in any way, and we have no reason to believe that this is the same Lani whose birth records in Beckov show her born in 1848.
6. why should we think that Simon Gelb is Max Singers wife, Lani's father?
if this is the case to be true there is a different Gelb familiy.
so we have a Sigmund Gelb getting married in Gyöngyös in 1864 but he is not Lani's Father. I believe we have to look in Gyöngyös for another Gelb who might be her father. I am not sure that she is from Gyöngyös, but as I said, this is my assumption due to her living there right after her marriage.
Another point that would be worth pointing out: i am not sure if the name Lani was used in hungary so this makes me think if she was realy born there. We find the name Leah used by her descendants, but more Hungarian-like names such as Ilona and Ilonka.
Ilona Esther Schreiber
and Ilonka Leah Koppel The same is with the name Efraim. I would expect a name such as Froim/Ferencz/Francz/Franz. Just ideas of names to look for when we're researching because my belief is that we have not yet identified our family.
All the best!
