Irchaimbert, seigneur de Grandson - Correcting the Grandson tree

Started by Erica Howton on Wednesday, November 23, 2022
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Is there any reason not to align this tree with Cawley’s article at FMG / Medlands?

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/burgkvaud.htm#_Toc50992889

The ancestry of Adalbert de Grandson and Lambert de Grandson, ancestors of the two branches of the seigneurie de Grandson, is not known. Gingins-La-Sarraz identifies Lambert as the “dernier comte laïque du Pays-de-Vaud” (Lambert [II] Comte [de Vaud]), noting that, having fallen into disgrace, Rudolf III King of Burgundy in 1011 deprived him of his county which he granted to the bishop of Lausanne (no source cited)[1110]. Gingins-La-Sarraz’s suggestion appears impossible from a chronological point of view: Comte Lambert is named between [1001/02] and 1018, whereas the sons of Lambert de Grandson survived well into the 12th century. Charrière names “Adalbert et Lambert auteurs de deux branches de [la] famille [de Grandson]” as sons of Comte Lambert [II], recording in later passages the descendants of Adalbert as “la branche aînée” and of Lambert as “la branche cadette”[1111]. While a close relationship between the Vaud and Grandson families is indicated by both using the names Lambert and Adalbert, the chronology suggests that Lambert de Grandson belonged to a later generation than Adalbert (in another passage Charrière names Lambert “neveu du sénieur Adalbert”[1112]). For presentational purposes, they are shown below as possible uncle and nephew. Lambert’s descendants are recorded as “seigneur de Grandson” from [1110/11], suggesting a family agreement with the descendants of Adalbert to share the seigneurie. No trace of such agreement has been found.

Two possible brothers:

  • 1. ADALBERT de Grandson ([before 1025?]-after 27 Sep 1049). … Adalbert is named as father of Othon, Conon and Rigaud in the [1075/87] charter quoted below. [see below, SEIGNEURS de GRANDSON (line of ADALBERT).]
  • 2. [--- de Grandson .] m ---. One child:
    • a) LAMBERT de Grandson [see below, SEIGNEURS de GRANDSON (line of LAMBERT)].

Notes:

Tagging Sharon Doubell who worked on Adalbert de Grandson, "Adalgold" dit "de la Sarraz"

He’s been disconnected from them.

If there are sources for that parentage, he can be reconnected.

Thanks for spotting Erica. I'm disconnecting Irchaimbert, seigneur de Grandson and Hildtrud de Grandson as Adalbert de Grandson, "Adalgold" dit "de la Sarraz" 's parents, pending the provision of primary sources.

oh well @Erica great maneuvers..
they needed, it was necessary in this "redundancy DIY loop" node :D
(my searches had taken me to a Genealnet which cited another Genelanet, which cited Geni with cited not having found any feedback about it.. cited in the Genealnet itself :)

So summarizing the imperial connection has been cut for unsourced parents of Mathilde d'Ardenne, princesse d'Ardenne et comtesse de Chiny
..& her husban Arnold l, comes (still Grandson COA & surname under display name)
..I don't even remember how he was related to Adalbert de Grandson, "Adalgold" dit "de la Sarraz" (1st Grandson ML sourced)

Thank you both.

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