Especially tagging Ric Dickinson, Geni Curator Also Sharon Doubell who curates Élisabeth de Courtenay
From https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/psv2U0Vkd-s/m/... Nov 6 2019
Dear Newsgroup ~
Below is my current file account of Reynold de Courtenay (died c.1191). This man was obviously from a good background, as he served as witness for numerous charters of King Henry II issued in the period, 1164–1188.
Complete Peerage 4 (1916): 317 (sub Devon) (ped.) alleges without evidence that Renaud de Courtenay, seigneur of Courtenay, living 1149, is the same person as the later individual Reynold de Courtenay, died 1190–1, of Sutton, Berkshire and Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire.
Charles Cawley of Medlands adopts the view that the two men were the same person. Mr. Cawley refers us to Burke’s Peerage which states that Louis VII, King of France quarrelled with Renaud de Courtenay, seigneur of Courtenay, while on the Second Crusade, confiscated his French possessions, and bestowed them on his younger brother Pierre whom he married to Renaud’s daughter Elisabeth. This would presumably explain why the French Renaud subsequently surfaced in the train of the English king. Cawley admits, however, "it has not been possible to trace primary sources which justify all these statements." No primary sources = red flag.
When asked by me to provide additional evidence that the two men were the same person, Mr. Cawley has been unable to do so. It is certainly common in the medieval period for two men to have the same name. This is no surprise. It is insufficient evidence, however, to presume that two men with the same name are the same person.
I accept that there was a connection between the French and English Courtenay families. Complete Peerage 4 (1916): 465, footnote b indicates that the arms of the Courtenays, both English and French, were, Or, three roundlets Gules (with various brisures). These were borne (seals, 1205, 1212) by Pierre, Sire de Courtenay, Count of Nevers, Auxerre, and Tonnerre, s. and h. of Pierre de France, citing Du Bouchet, Maison de Courtenay (1661): 89–99, preuves, 13–15. I haven't reviewed this evidence but I have no reason to doubt it.
At the present time, however, I remain unconvinced that Renaud de Courtenay, seigneur of Courtenay, living 1149, is the same person as Reynold de Courtenay, of England, died c.1191.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Historian and Genealogist
REYNOLD DE COURTENAY (or CURTENAY, CORTENAY), of Sutton, Berkshire, and Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire, and, in right of his 2nd wife, of Okehampton and Musbury, Devon, Hemington, Somerset, etc., of uncertain parentage. He married (1st) an unidentified wife, _____, kinswoman of Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine (wife of King Henry II of England). They had three sons, William, Robert, and Reynold, and one daughter, Egeline. He was a witness in 1150 at Rouen in Normandy of a charter of Henry, Duke of Normandy (afterwards King Henry II of England). He held lands in Sutton, Berkshire in 1160–1, and received a grant of the manor from King Henry II sometime in the period, 1175–84. He witnessed numerous charters of King Henry II issued in the period, 1164–88. He was frequently in the king’s train on his itineraries in England and France. In 1171 he accompanied the king in his campaign in Ireland. He married (2nd) after 1173 MAUD FITZ ROBERT, daughter of Robert Fitz Roy (illegitimate son of King Henry I of England), by Maud, daughter of Robert d’Avranches [see ENGLAND 2.i for her ancestry]. In 1174 he witnessed an agreement between King Henry II and William the Lion, King of Scots. He was first recorded as holding lands in Devon in 1175–6. Sometime prior to his death, he granted two islands in the Thames between Witteneiam [?Wittenham] and Wadeiam [?Waddeson] to Abingdon Abbey. REYNOLD DE COURTENAY was living Michaelmas 1190, and died before Michaelmas 1191. In 1200 William de Préaux made fine with the king to have the wife of Reynold de Curtenay with his land; Maud allegedly went abroad to evade this marriage. In 1204–5 the king presented to the chapel of Musbury, Devon, which should have been in his widow, Maud’s gift. In 1213 Maud obtained letters of safe conduct permitting her to return to England and petition for the king’s favor. In 1215 the king directed the Constable of Wallingford to deliver to her seisin of the vill of Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire, which formed part of her dower. She presented to the church of Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire about 1215. In 1220 she sued the Prior of Burcester regarding her dower lands in Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire. The same year In 1220 she sued Robert de Courtenay and Reynold de Courtenay (her nephews and step-grandsons) for the manors of Oakhampton, Chawleigh, Chulmleigh, Kenn, and Musbury, and Sampford, Devon and Hemington, Somerset, which she claimed as her right; Robert answered that no claims under French titles were valid; Maud rebutted that the properties were in England and she was English. Maud died shortly before 3 August 1224. In 1227 a mandate was sent to the sheriff of Gloucestershire ordering him to make enquiry of Peter Fitz Herbert concerning scutage for the manor of Okehampton, Devon which belonged to Maud de Courtenay.
References
Pole, Colls. towards a Desc. of Devon (1791): 2–5 (charter of Maud de Courtenay, lady of Oakhampton; another charter of Reynold de Courtenay granted with consent of Maud his wife). Kennett, Parochial Antiqs. of Ambrosden, Burcester 1 (1818): 277. Coll. Top. et Gen. 1 (1834): 184, 189 (“List of charters in the cartulary of St. Nicholas Priory, Exeter: Coll. Top. et Gen. 1 (1834): 189 (undated charter of Reynold de Courtenay and his wife, Maud; charter witnessed by William and Robert de Courtenay). Hardy, Rotuli Normanniae in Turri Londinensi Asservati (1835): 40. Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum 5 (1846): 377–382 (Ford Abbey, Fundationis et Fundatorum Historia: “Fuit autem iste dictus Reginaldus de Courtney filius domini Flori, filii regis Franciae Ludovici, cognomento Grossi; ac etiam ista Hawisia vicecomitissa uxor ejus secunda, de sanguine regio Anglicano, ex parte dominae Albredae neptis etiam regis Willielmi Bastardi matris aviae suae dominae Adeliciae vicecomitissae primitus memoratae generosae exorta.”). Collectanea Archæologica 1 (1862): 263–284. Bain, Cal. of Docs. rel. to Scotland 2 (1884): 15 (Robert de Courtenay [son of Reynold] styled “kinsman” [cognatus] of Queem Eleanor of Aquitaine). Maitland, Bracton’s Note Book 2 (1887): 133–134, 137–138; 3 (1887): 355–356, 450–452. Notes & Queries 6th Ser. 3 (1881): 1–3; 7th Ser. 4 (1887): 430; 8th Ser. 7 (1895): 441–443. Note-book of Tristram Risdon (1897): 53–56. Round, Cal. Docs. Preserved in France 1 (1899): 316–317. Phillimore, Rotuli Hugonis de Welles Episcopi Lincolniensis 1209–1235 2 (Canterbury & York Soc. 3) (1907): 49. C.P. 4 (1916): 465, footnote b (Courtenay in Gâtinais. The arms of the Courtenays, both English and French, were, Or, three roundlets Gules (with various brisures). These were borne (seals, 1205, 1212) by Pierre, Sire de Courtenay, Count of Nevers, Auxerre, and Tonnerre, s. and h. of Pierre de France, citing Du Bouchet, Maison de Courtenay (1661): 89–99, preuves, 13–15). C.P. 4 (1916): 317 (sub Devon) (ped.) (author alleges without evidence that Renaud de Courtenay, seigneur of Courtenay, living 1149, is the same person as Reynold de Courtenay, died 1190–1, of Sutton, Berkshire). Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe Michaelmas 1190 (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 1) (1925): 31. Stenton, Great Rolls of the Pipe Michaelmas 1191 & Michaelmas 1192 (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 2) (1926): 162, 276. Curia Regis Rolls, 8 (1938): 32, 213; 9 (1952): 36–37, 71–72, 293–294; 10 (1949): 22, 53. Curia Regis Rolls 9 (1952): 36–37. Seversmith, Colonial Fams. of Long Island, New York & Connecticut 5 (1958): 2419–2424. Darlington, Cartulary of Worcester Cathedral Priory (Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 38) (1968): 132–133. Keefe, Feudal Assessments & the Political Community under Henry II & his Sons (1983): 104, 109. Schwennicke, Europäische Stanmtafeln 3(2) (1983): 354 (illegitimate children of King Henry I of England); 3(4) (1989): 629. Traditio 41 (1985): 145–179 (author suggests that Reynold de Courtenay above is possibly the “Renaud” or “Renaud Pauper” who witnessed charters dated 1152 and 1155 as “cognatus” [kinsman] for Robert, Count of Dreux, younger son of King Louis VI of France). Kemp, Reading Abbey Cartularies 1 (Camden 4th Ser. 31) (1986): 232; 2 (Camden 4th Ser. 33) (1987): 232–233. Schwennicke, Europäische Stanmtafeln 3(2) (1983): 354 (illegitimate children of King Henry I of England); 3(4) (1989): 629. Slade & Lambrick, Two Cartularies of Abingdon Abbey 1 (Oxford Hist. Soc. n.s. 32) (1990): 170–171 (charter of Reynold de Courtenay dated pre-1194). Hanna, Christchurch Priory Cartulary (Hampshire Rec. Ser. 18) (2007): 281 (charter of Maud de Courtenay dated before 1224).
Hanna Christchurch Priory Cartulary (2007): 281. Cornwall Rec. Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice, AR/1/557 (no date [12th century?]; in his court at Cuwyk [Cowick]. Confirmation by Reginald de Courtenay, for the souls of himself and Maud his wife, and of his children and parents, of the gift by Osbert [sic, for Osbern] de Hyduna and Geoffrey his brother, and later by Richard de Hydona and John his son, to the church and canons of Tanton, of the land of Middelduna, as freely as attested by charters of Robert son of King Henry and of John de Hydona; also of a ferling of Madecombe which John de Hydona gave, and of the land of Sinderhull which Agnes daughter of the said Osbert gave; Witnesses: Robert de Courtenay and William his brother, William Dapifer, Henry the chaplain, William de Punchard[un], Guy de Bryan, Anthony de la Bruer', Henry his brother, Richard Ottele [?], 'Hatelinus' de Hydona, William de Hemiok, Henry Hostiar', Simon Delpyt, Roger his brother, Walter Pipinus, Richard son of Brian, Brian his brother, William Talebot, Richard his son, Richard de Hydona, Arnold de Burdeuyle, Robert Anechorus Cophinus (available at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.ukhttp://www.a2a.org.uk/searc...). Devon Rec. Office: Petre, 123M/TB281 (grant dated late 12th c. in fee farm with warranty Matilda de Curtenai lady of Oke [Okehampton] to Ailmar de Siete. Mill of Misbire [Musbury], which was at farm for 18s. annually, to hold at fee farm by hereditary right to Ailmar from Matilda. Rent 20s. Consideration Ailmar’s homage and service --- a certain gold ring and 100s. which Ailmar gave to Matilda in her court of Cuwic [Cowick, St. Thomas’s Exeter] in aid of her --- her relief and fine made to the king. Matilda should warrant the mill for 20s. with all mulcture, land, meadow, pasture, common.) (available at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk). National Archives, DL 34/1/34 (Writ of H[ubert] de Burgh, justiciar, to Hugh de Neville requesting him to restrain the bailiffs of Brill forest from exacting unjust services from Maud de Courtenay and from her manor of Waddesdon, Bucks. Date: 1215–1224) (available at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.ukhttp:// www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp). Devon Rec. Office: Petre, 123M/TB281 (grant dated late 12th c. in fee farm with warranty Matilda de Curtenai lady of Oke [Okehampton] to Ailmar de Siete. Mill of Misbire [Musbury], which was at farm for 18s. annually, to hold at fee farm by hereditary right to Ailmar from Matilda. Rent 20s. Consideration Ailmar’s homage and service --- a certain gold ring and 100s. which Ailmar gave to Matilda in her court of Cuwic [Cowick, St. Thomas’s Exeter] in aid of her --- her relief and fine made to the king. Matilda should warrant the mill for 20s. with all mulcture, land, meadow, pasture, common.) (available at http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp).
——
Apparently updated at Wikitree.
