King David of Israel - Bloodly related!

Started by Private User on Monday, August 15, 2022
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Hi cousin, Ms. Opal Rebecca Carnes. There was a dscussion where some people claimed that biblical figures, including King David, were mythical, rather than real, and Geni decided to break the links so that no one could trace lineage to Kind David and Others. I was able to trace before this and took screenshots, as he is a great . . . .. grandfather.

I very strongly disagree with the decision and think that we should start a peaceful protest and a petition to bring back King David's connections!

1).I currently see Geni:
You are connected to King David of Israel.
Shortest in-law relationship
King David of Israel is your first cousin 27 times removed's wife's 21st great grandfather's
wife's aunt's husband's 6th great grandfather's wife's first cousin twice removed's
husband's fourth great aunt's husband's third great grandfather
2).09.2021 Geni made me:
Ingrīda Cinkmane (Dzelvīte) is related to King David of Israel
King David of Israel is Ingrīda Cinkmane (Dzelvīte)'s 19th cousin 110 times removed
See how you are connected to King David of Israel ;David
King David of Israel is your 19th cousin 110 times removed.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
You Ingrida Cinkmane (Dzelvite)
→ Elza Dzelvite (Grahpe,Grāpe)
your mother → Jānis Grāpe(Grahpe)
her father → Baron Arnold Julius von Vietinghoff-Riesch
his father → Carl Arnold Bar. von Vietinghoff
his father → Reinhold Johann Peter von Vietinghoff
his father → Augusta Christiane Isabella Elisabet von Vietinghoff
his mother → Reinhold Gustaf von Ungern-Sternberg
her father → Reinhold VII (Renaud) von Ungern-Sternberg
his father → Helene Zoege von Manteuffel
his mother → Helena Henriksdotter Horn af Kanckas
her mother → Anna Jönsdotter Snakenborg
her mother → Jöns Ulfsson Snakenborg (Bååt)
her father → Riksråd Ulf Henriksson Snakenborg
his father → Elin Ulfsdotter (Roos af Ervalla)
his mother → Ulf Pedersson (Roos af Ervalla)
her father → Peder Jonsson Ulfsson
his father → Ulv Jonsson (Roos af Ervalla)
his father → Baron Jon Havtoresson Roos
his father → Agnes Haakonsdatter
his mother → Håkon V Magnusson, king of Norway
her father → Queen Ingeborg Eriksdatter af Danmark
his mother → Erik IV Plovpenning, Konge af Danmark
her father → Berengária af Portugal, Dronning af Danmark
his mother → Sancho I, o Povoador, rei de Portugal
her father → Afonso I, o Conquistador, rei de Portugal
his father → Teresa de Leão, condessa de Portugal
his mother → Alfonso VI the Brave, King of Castile and León
her father → Sancha I, reina de León
his mother → Alfonso V 'el Noble' de León, Rey de León
her father → Bermudo II el Gotoso, rey de León
his father → Ordoño III, rey de León
his father → Adosinda Gutiérrez, reina consorte de León
his mother → Doña Aldonza Menéndez
her mother → Duquesa Hermesinda Gatonez de Bierzo
her mother → Gatón (Afaton) del Bierzo, conde de Astorga y del Bierzo
her father → Ramiro I, rey de Asturias
his father → Ozenda de Navarra, reina consorte de Asturias
his mother → Conde Flávio Atáulfo de Coimbra, Rey de Asturias
her father → Flavio Sisebuto, conde de Coimbra
his father → Witiza I, rey de los visigodos
his father → Cixilo Balthes, Emperatriz de Hispania
his mother → Ervigio, rey de los visigodos
her father → Artavasdes Balthes de los visigodos
his father → Flavia Juliana
his mother → Anastasia Aerobinda
her mother → Anastasius
her father → Flavius Anastasius Paulus Probus Sabinianus Pompeius Anastasius
his father → Flavius Sabianus Probus
his father → Flavia Magna
his mother → Maria
her mother → Petronius Maximus, Roman Emperor
her father → Anicius Probinus
his father → Sextus Claudius Petronius Probus
his father → Petronius Probinus
his father → Anicia
his mother → Amnia Demetrias
her mother → Flavia Minor
her mother → Claudia Capitolina
her mother → Tiberius Claudius Bassus Capitolinus
her father → Tiberius Claudius
his father → Tiberius Claudius
his father → Tiberius Claudius Capitolinus
his father → Tiberius Claudius Balbillus
his father → Aka Ii of Commagene
his mother → Iotapa
her mother → Athenais
her mother → Antiochos Théos, I, King of Commagene
her father → Mithridates I Callinicus, king of Commagene
his father → Sames II, king of Commagene
his father → Ptolemy I, king of Commagene
his father → Orontes IV, king of Armenia
his father → Arsames I, king of Armenia, Sophene & Commagene
his father → Samos I, satrap of Commagene
his father → Aroandes (Orontes) III, King of Armenia
his father → Mithridates / Mithrenes, King of Armenia
his father → Orontes II, king of Armenia
his father → Satrap of Sophene and Matiene Orontes I
his father → Satrap of Armenia Artasyrus, Satrap of Armenia
his father → Hidarnes III (Raja Armenia VIII)
his father → Hidarnes II (Raja Armenia VII)
his father → Hidarnes I (Raja Armenia VI (515-... SM))
his father → Vahagn (Raja Armenia V (535-515 SM))
his father → Tigran I (Raja Armenia IV (565-535 SM))
his father → Erouand I / Yervand I (Raja Armenia III (569-565 SM))
his father → Haikak II (Raja Armenia II (606-569 SM))
his father → Phavos (Raja Armenia I (631-606 SM))
his father → Kornak (Raja Arme-Supria V (666-631 SM))
his father → Pachouych (Raja Arme-Supria IV (679-666 SM))
his father → Pharnouas (Raja Arme-Supria III (701-679 SM))
his father → Hratchia (Raja Arme-Supria II (748-701 SM))
his father → Parouyr - Raja Arme-Supria I (805-748 SM)
his father → Skaiordi (Raja Armenia Kuno XXXVI (838-805 SM))
his father → Kipak (Raja Armenia Kuno XXXV (883-838 SM))
his father → Houssak (Raja Armenia Kuno XXXIV (941-910 SM))
his father → Hoy (Raja Armenia Kuno XXXIII (985-941 SM))
his father → Arboun (Raja Armenia Kuno XXXII (1002-985 SM))
his father → Perch (Raja Armenia Kuno XXXI (1137-1002 SM))
his father → Zarmair (Raja Armenia Kuno XXX (1180-1137 SM))
his father → Horo - Raja Armenia Kuno XXVIII (1194-1180 SM)
his father → Geghak (Raja Armenia Kuno XXVIII (1197-1194 SM))
his father → Endzak - Raja Armenia Kuno XXVI (1242-1197 SM)
his father → Hrant (Raja Armenia Kuno XXVI (1267-1242 SM))
his father → Gorak - Raja Armenia Kuno XXIV (1285-1267 SM)
his father → Kar (Raja Armenia Kuno XXIV (1289-1285 SM))
his father → Vestam - Raja Armenia Kuno XXII (1302-1289 SM)
his father → Norir (Raja Armenia Kuno XXII (1326-1302 SM))
his father → Shavarsh - Raja Armenia Kuno XX (1332-1326 SM)
his father → Arnak (Raja Armenia Kuno XX (1349-1332 SM))
his father → Ampak - Raja Armenia Kuno XVIII (1363-1349 SM)
his father → Haikak (Raja Armenia Kuno XVIII (1381-1363 SM))
his father → Vashtak - Raja Armenia Kuno XVI (1403-1381 SM)
his father → Havanag (Raja Armenia Kuno XVI (1433-1403 SM))
his father → Sour - Raja Armenia Kuno XIV (1478-1433 SM)
his father → Varnas (Raja Armenia Kuno XIV (1531-1478 SM))
his father → Zaven - Raja Armenia Kuno XII (1568-1531 SM)
his father → Arbag (Raja Armenia Kuno XII (1612-1568 SM))
his father → Paret - Raja Armenia Kuno X (1662-1612 SM)
his father → Anushavan `Sosanwer' (Raja Armenia Kuno X (1725-1662 SM))
his father → Ara Kardos (Raja Armenia Kuno IXI (1743-1725 SM))
his father → Ara `Geghetsik' `the Handsom' (Raja Armenia Kuno VIII (1769-1743 SM))
his father → Aram (Raja Armenia Kuno VII (1827-1769 SM))
his father → Harma (Raja Armenia Kuno VI (1858-1827 SM))
his father → Gegham - Raja Armenia Kuno IV (1908-1858 SM)
his father → Amasya - Raja Armenia Kuno III (1940-1908 SM)
his father → Aramaiyis (Raja Armenia Kuno III (1980-1940 SM))
his father → Armaneak / Armenia ., Raja Armenia Kuno II (2026-1980 SM
his father → Haik Nahapet ., Raja Armenia Kuno I
his father → Togarmah .
his father →'
Gomer . is your 127th great grandfather.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
his father →
(Female) ., Wife of Asshur .
his sister →
Nin Sun .
her daughter → Ur .
her son → Ora Chaldees .
his daughter → Serug .
her son → Cornebo .
his son → Amethelo .
his daughter → Patriarch Abraham
her son → Patriarch Isaac / יצחק אבינו
his son → Patriarch Jacob
his son → Judah .
his son → Shelah .
his son → Phozib .
his daughter → Thehara .
her daughter → Nahshon ben Aminadav
her son → Salmon .
his son → Boaz .
his son → Obed .
his son → Isaï (Jesse) .
his son → King David of Israel
his son

So basically even if you are Jewish you are still not Jewish enough to be related to king David or anyone else this is crazyness

I understand. It's highly controversial in the genealogical community to legitimately verify ancestry as far back as King David due to a variety of factors including missing records. It's reaĺly a matter of faith in one's personal ancestry, in my opinion. However. On a shared family tree like Geni, they want verification to back up claims of relatedness. Have had this discussion before, consider myself of Jewish Heritage as a descendant of King David, but respect the the views and rules of the sites that create and maintain shared or community trees. I understand your frustration, however, as i am of the same view. However, when in Rome, do as the Roman's do... no pun intended! 😉

Rajamim instead of discution, the Corvan of David Melej has made us all, and you children of Ysrael

the Exile is not ended, Remember that

Dear Elizabeth,

King David of Israel is your 108th great grandfather. This was a message from Geni on Jan 2 2021

The Jewish people kept meticulious genealogy records.
!
I think we should have a peaceful protest and petition to bring the relationsihp links back

I agree with you all 4 of you are my cousins

This was my connection

King David of Israel is your 101st great grandfather

You
→ Mary Lee Davis
your mother → Arthur Vearl Foor
her father → Arthur Glen Foor
his father → Noah Calvin Foor
his father → Pvt Henry Henrich Foor
his father → Elizabeth Alspach
his mother → Johannes "John" Alspach
her father → Anna Magdalena Alspach
his mother → Andreas Sigismund Brandstetter
her father → Sigismund Simon Brandstetter
his father → Margrave of Brandenburg Johann Georg Brandstetter
his father → Prince of Hohenzollern, Kurfurst Elector von Brandenburg Johann John Georg I
his father → Duchess Magdalene Herzogin of Saxony, Electoral Princess of Brandeburg Margravine of Brandenburg
his mother → Barbara Jagiellon of Poland, Princess, Duchess consort of Saxony
her mother → Casimir IV Jagiellon, King of Poland
her father → Władysław Jagiełło, King of Poland
his father → Uliana of Tver, queen consort of Lithuania
his mother → Prince of Tver Alexander, Rurikid
her father → Prince of Tver Mikhail Yaroslavich, Rurikid
his father → Prince of Tver Yaroslav Yaroslavich
his father → Vladim dk Yaroslav II Vsevolodovič
his father → Vsevolod "Big Nest" Yurevich, Gr.Pr.Vladimir
his father → Helena Komnene
his mother → Kata Irena of Georgia
her mother → David IV, King of Georgia
her father → George II, king of Georgia
his father → Bagrat IV, King of Georgia
his father → George I, king of Georgia
his father → Bagrat III, king of Georgia
his father → Gurgen I, King of Iberia-Kartli
his father → Bagrat II, King of Iberia-Kartli
his father → Sumbat I, King of Iberia-Kartli
his father → King Adarnase I (IV) of Iberia
his father → Prince David I of Iberia
his father → Prince Bagrat I of Iberia
his father → Ashot I the Great, Prince of Iberia
his father → unnamed wife of Adarnase I of Tao-Klarjeti of the Nersianid dynasty
his mother → Nerse the Prince of Iberia
her father → Adarnase III, Prince of Iberia
his father → unnamed wife of Nerse
his mother → Mirian of Kakheti, Georgian Prince of the Royal Chosroid Dynasty
her father → Prince Stephen of Kakheti in Georgia
his father → Adarnase II Prince of Iberia
his father → Stephen II Prince of Iberia
his father → Prince Adarnase I of Iberia Khosroid dynasty
his father → Bajur III, king of Iberia
his father → King Pharasmanes VI of Iberia - Khosroid dynasty
his father → Parent of Pharasmanes VI Khosroid dynasty
his father → Barcurius II King of Iberia
his father → Dachi King of Iberia
his father → Balendukht
his mother → Hormozd III, King of Persia
her father → Yazdegerd II, King of Persia
his father → Bahrám V "of the Wild Ass", King of Persia
his father → Shoshandukt bat Mar Abba Abra
his mother → Mar Sutra
her mother → Musa "Rav Papa" bar Yosef, resh metivta al-Nehardea, 5th Gen Amora
her father → Yosef bar Yosef
his father → Yosef bar Khamma
his father → Khamma ben Nachum II, 5th Exilarch Huna I
his father → 2nd Exhilarch of Judah Nachum ben Achaya, 2nd Exilarch Nachum II
his father → Achaya bar Akkub bar Akkub, 1st Exilarch 2nd Dynasty
his father → Ya'akov ben Shlomo, Exilarch
his father → Shlomo ben Hunya, Exilarch Interregnum
his father → Hunya ben Nathan, Exilarch Interregnum
his father → Nathan (de Zuzita, Babylon) ben Shalom
his father → Shalom II ben Hizkiya, Exilarch Interregnum
his father → Hizkiya ., 33rd Exilarch
his father → Shechanya II ibn Da'ud, Exilarch
his father → Da'ud ben Shemaya, Exilarch
his father → Shemaya I ben Shlomo
his father → Shlomo III ben David Exilarch
his father → David ben Akkub
his father → Salma bat Hizkiya ibn Nearya
his mother → Hizkiyahu II ibn Nearya 21st Exilarch
her father → Neriyah, 18th Exilarch
his father → Bariah Ben Shemaya
his father → Semaya Ben Shechanya
his father → Shechanya Ben Ovadya
his father → Obaja Ben Amay (Aranan)
his father → Arnan Ben Rafaya
his father → Refaya (e Ben Chananya
his father → Yeshaiah ben Hananya
his father → Hananya, 5th Exilarch
his father → Zerubbabel 3rd Exilarch / זרובבל
his father → Shealtiel ., 2nd Exilarch
his father → King Jechoniah, 18th King of Judah
his father → Jehoiakim Elyakim, 17th King of Judah
his father → Josiah ., 15th King of Judah
his father → Amon ., 14th King of Judah
his father → Manasseh ., 13th King of Judah
his father → Hephzi-bah .
his mother → Isaiah The Prophet
her father → Amoz .
his father → Jehoaddan .
his mother → Jehosheba .
her mother → Jehoram, 5th King of Judah
her father → Jehosaphat, 4th King of Judah
his father → Asa ., 3rd King of Judah
his father → Maacah .
his mother → Absalom .
her father → King David of Israel
his father

Katramide of Kartli, Queen of Armenia was disconnected from her parents King Gurgen I of Iberia-Kartli and Gurandukht of Abkhazia and sibling Bagrat III, king of Georgia by Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert.

Katramide, queen of Armenia

She has been reassigned as daughter of Vasak, king of Siwnik' with an obscure French source for me incomprehensible.

Also further down there was some extensive rearrangement of the Braganzas, including this imho questionable merge for Urraca Nunes de Bragança

https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=80845193470

Questionable because the original MP's parents were changed with this merge. Essentially it was a merge between Urraca Mendes de Bragança (the original Uracca in my King David line) and the one she was replaced with, Urraca Nunes de Bragança

These two Uraccas with birthdates approximately 40 years at variance, and of course with different parents and spouses, children, etc. That was quite a feat!

Also left behind is a glaring data conflict (b. 1105 vs. 1150) on the father of the duplicate merged into the MP, https://www.geni.com/merge/resolve/6000000003827890751 which I wouldn't dare touch.

Private User - please see the discussion https://www.geni.com/discussions/241984?msg=1526722 and add your comments there, if you’d like the area reviewed / cleaned up. I will do my best to help.

I will also say that dates in antiquity are very difficult. So a data conflict of 50 years doesn’t disturb me. It’s usually the result of variant historical reconstructions over the centuries.

King David of Israel is my 9th great aunt's 82nd great grandfather.

Katramide, queen of Armenia is my 27th great grandmother.

Urraca Mendes de Bragança is my 24th great grandmother.

Urraca Nunes de Bragança is my 21st great grandmother.

Vasak, king of Siwnik' is my 28th great grandfather.

Please follow all discussions Rav Yehoshua Aharon Hershkowitz

Most pe3ople haaave some Jewish descent. My daugter is Separdic aaaaaand has ancestry from Afghanistan. I am descened from Jessie Daaaaavid's father

Do not In the end Hashem will judge them. worry about Bigots, do modern Jews keep Moses'''''''''''''''''aws? No. Most Palestinians have Jewish ancestry according to research.

Thankfully I got my stuff done before this as well. And by reading some of the comments it appears many dont know about Sefer Yuchsin. Many Levite/Kohen familes have these records, my family falls here.

That's great Hadassah Miriam Miller !
People are trying to reconstruct the lineages since some "people" at ge ni decided to break King David's line and many many many other ones...
Hopefully it will be back, probably out of ge ni.
It's a pity that the called "world tree site" is loosing ALL the ancient and middle age profiles linked to living people.
I am saving all my genealogy (and reconstructing all lost paths) very very far away of ge ni.

@Private User

@Mikko Laakso

@Private User

@Fabiano

Shalom Hadassah Miriam Miller,
I'd love to see any Sefer Yochsin that has a reliable record as far back as the Tanach. I'll make it easier - as far back as the Reish-Galutah /Exilarchs. Even easier, can you provide a reliable line as far back as 11trh century RASHI?

Yes, thousands of people have records going back this far. The only problem is that these lines are much MUCH too short. They are missing DOZENS of generations.

There is a strong tradition that RASHI - רש״י was the descendent of Raban Gamaliel HaZaken ben Shimon, President of the Sanhedrin. Who was from the Tribe of Judah (OR Benjamin). Not even the Talmudists were sure. BUT there is no known FULL record all the way to RASHI let alone these earlier generations.

The last person in the Jewish Bible, from the line of King David of Israel that we have reliable dates for is Zerubbabel 3rd Exilarch / זרובבל. He died circa 510 BCE, i.e. about 2500 years ago. That means that one HUNDRED generations have passed since then. I have yet to see ANY line that had more than 60-70, and even those made questionable connections.

Going forward from Zerubbabel, the list of Reish-Galutah are not a line, as such. Despite the claims of many "lineages", the title often passed around in the family, to a nephew, or even a son in-law or two.

So please don't assume that we don't know what we are talking about. If you have a reliable source, I would LOVE to add it to the site. Until then the Curator team will keep on disconnecting these lines, until finally we can permanently isolate the entire Bible Tree.

Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן just have to love your comment Shmuel, but I would LOVE if tradition also had some value! Still, I agree with you and wish you good luck in your sisyfos tree work,

Look at this site and their genealogical tree
http://www.frumkin.org.il/comp-tree.htm

That's a GREAT example of... precisely my point.
1, In the tree file, see the big zigzag across the top. Those are the Reish Galutah. That's not a lineage at all.
2. On the right side of it, HE acknowledges that there's a chunk missing (dotted line), and other "mere" 900 year gap to Hillel the Elder.
3. There are only fourteen generations between R. Johanan HaSandlar and Rashi?? That's seven hundred years....

There's really nothing new here at all. This tree is a perfect example of the wishful thinking that people WANT to be true. It's extremely popular. But it's neither historical nor genealogy.

King David of israel 96 great grandfather

I know of at least one possible evidence-based pedigree to King David, known as the Gens Dayanica. This pedigree includes 100 named generations from King David to the present. Details about the pedigree (including a complete list of ancestors) as well as other factors, such as ydna haplogroup information, the Cairo Geniza, and scholarly research are available in this article: https://www.academia.edu/53234866/ This is still only a hypothesis, but at least there is a pathway towards proof. If you can find a way of connecting up to the Gens Dayanica then you will be part of this lineage too.

Interestingly, the Gens Dayanica ydna signature is quite close to the possible Maharal of Prague's ydna signature (which remains to be confirmed). This research is explained in another article: https://www.academia.edu/84138593/ (page 5: R1a-Z93).

There could be many other possible Davidic pedigrees besides Gens Dayanica and Maharal of Prague, each needs to be studied and described using every available tool (most especially ydna haplogrouping, if possible).

I look forward to reading about other Davidic lines, based on reasonable evidence. Please post your detailed reports here so we can read them.

Thank you, Private User .

I'd like remind everyone that the breaks in lineage that affect my family and probably many others occurred much further down the line than that which is alluded to by Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן .

I don't believe anyone has questioned the gaps in the lineage further up, which nevertheless remain on the record.

But since further investigation of Katramide, I now accept (although without primary source) that she may have been the daughter of Vasak instead of Gurgen.

The Braganzas are really messed up badly though, last time I checked.

(I was asked to divert my comments above to another discussion, where I subsequently went on record agreeing with the change Tomas had applied to Katramide. So please see for clarification of my position:)

https://www.geni.com/discussions/241984?msg=1581256

Of Katramide, Cawley states: The sources are contradictory regarding the parentage of Katramide. According to Vardan, she was the daughter of Vasak [VI] prince of Siunik[111].

The Chronicle of Matthew of Edessa records that the mother of Yovhanes was “la reine Gadramidtkh…fille du roi de Géorgie, Kourke”[112]. It is assumed that this is intended to mean that she was Katramide, daughter of Gurgen [I] Prince of Kartli & his wife --- of Abkhazia.

The Chronicle of Matthew of Edessa records that Yovhanes received support from “le chef Géorgien” in his dispute with his brother over their father´s succession, dated to after [1017/20]. It is unclear from the context of the passage whether “le chef Géorgien” in question refers to Yovhanes´s maternal grandfather, although the reference by Matthew to this “chef Géorgien” being “Aph´khaz de naissance” [113] suggests that this might be the case. If the passage indicates the same person, this alleged parentage is cast in doubt, as the death of Prince Gurgen is dated to 1008 in the Georgian Chronicle (18th Century).

Alternatively, “le chef Géorgien” may refer to Katramide´s supposed nephew King Giorgi [I], who is recorded as ruling Abkhazia at the time of the death of Yovhanes´s father. This explanation has the advantage of elucidating why the passage in Matthew´s Chronicle avoids referring to “le chef” explicitly as Yovhanes´s grandfather.

The contradictions in the early passages of the Chronicle of Matthew of Edessa, combined with the extreme unreliability of the various editions of the Georgian Chronicle as discussed in detail in the document GEORGIA, suggest that it is unwise to conclude anything more precise about the parentage of Katramide other than the likelihood of her father being of Georgian origin.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ARMENIA.htm#_Toc359675587

I don't believe Georgia can be easily confused with Siwik in Armenia. And I do believe that Vardan was Armenian, so he may have been biased in his unproven claim that Katramide was Armenian and not Georgian.

So while I concede that Vardan makes that claim, and can't really argue with the decision made to make Vasak her father, I personally lean toward Gurgen as her father, as does Cawley apparently.

With Gurgen as her father, my line to David is (or was) unbroken.

there is literally an inscription made by her that she tells us who her father is. i dont see how you could possibly reject it.

George II, King of Abkhazia

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GEORGIA.htm#BargratIVdied1072

(Links to the alternative Georgian king alluded to by Cawley as a possible father of Katramide).

Here is Cawley's alternative version showing Katramide as daughter of Gurgen: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GEORGIA.htm#GurgenIKartlidied1008

Showing 1-30 of 48 posts

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