Isabel (de Cherlton) Sutton - Are marriages in the right order?

Started by Erica Howton on Tuesday, July 5, 2022
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Primary source

J. L. Kirby, 'Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry IV, Entries 400-446', in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Volume 18, Henry IV (London, 1987), pp. 125-144. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol18/pp125-144 [accessed 5 July 2022].

  • 430 ISABEL WIDOW OF JOHN DE SUTTON Writ 6 Feb. 1401.
  • WORCESTER. Inquisition. Worcester. 19 Feb.
  • She held the vill of Dudley to herself and her heirs male, of the king as parcel of the castle of Dudley in Staffordshire, which is held of the king in chief as half a barony, by the grant of Stephen Swetmon of Dudley and John Colleshull, chaplain, to Isabel and John de Sutton, formerly her husband, and the heirs male of their bodies, by a fine made with licence of Edward III [CPR 1340–3, p.1; CP 25(1) 287/40, no. 284], annual value £22.
  • She died on 10 April 1397. John de Sutton is next heir, being son of John, son of John, son of Isabel and John, and aged 21 years 3 weeks and more. John Beauford, earl of Somerset, has occupied the vill since the death of Isabel and taken the profits by the grant of Richard II [CPR 1396–9, p.109].
  • 431 Writ 6 Feb. 1401.
  • STAFFORD. Inquisition. Wolverhampton. 17 Feb.
  • She held to herself and her heirs male by the grant of Stephen Swetmon of Dudley and John Colleshull by a fine [as above]:
  • Dudley castle, with the manors of Sedgley, Kingswinford and Rowley Regis as members of the castle, of the king in chief by the service of half a barony; annual values, castle nil, Sedgley £60, Kingswinford £4 beyond £11 10s. payable at the exchequer at Easter and Michaelmas as fee farm, Rowley Regis 10 marks.
  • Tipton, 1 toft, 1 carucate, 6 a. meadow and 6 a. pasture, of John Hervyle by a rent of 12d.
  • She also held by the grant of Nicholas, rector of Kingswinford, to John and herself for their lives, with remainder to Thomas their son for life and the right heirs of John, the manors of Himley, annual value 8 marks, Swindon 100s., and Upper Penn 12 marks. They are held as members of the castle of Dudley.
  • Date of death, heir, and holding by the earl of Somerset as above.
  • 432A Writ 6 Feb. 1401.
  • GLOUCESTER AND THE ADJACENT MARCH OF WALES. Inquisition. Cardiff. 16 Feb.
  • She held for life in Glamorgan and Morgannok the castle of Dinas Powis and half the manors and advowson of Dinas Powis and Llanedarn, of Thomas late Lord Despenser as half a knight’s fee, by the grant of John de Sutton, knight, and Joan his wife, by a fine levied in the county court of Glamorgan of Edward le Despenser, father of Thomas, at Cardiff on 6 Oct. 1365, to Isabel and Richard de Duddeley, her former husband, and Richard their son for their lives, with reversion to John and Joan and the heirs of John; annual values, castle nil, half manors £13 14s., half advowsons nil.
  • Date of death and heir as above. Thomas late Lord le Despenser held and took the profits from the death of Isabel until 13 Jan. 1400 when he died. Robert Poyns, formerly escheator, then held until 1 Nov. last, and Robert Somervyle, escheator, since 1 Nov.
  • 432B Writ to the escheator of Lincolnshire for proof of age, on petition of John, son of John, son of John, son of John Sutton, who claims to have been born at Gedney and baptised there. The earl of Somerset who has the wardship should be informed. 13 Feb. 1401.
  • C 137/24, no. 49
  • E 149/77, no. 8

Burke’s (etc) has it like this:

Isabella de Cherleton was born circa 1308. She was the daughter of John Cherleton, 1st Lord Cherleton and Hawyse ap Owen.1 She married, firstly, John de Sutton, son of Sir John de Sutton and Margaret de Somery.1 She married, secondly, Sir Richard le Fisher.1 She died on 10 April 1397.

http://thepeerage.com/p284.htm#i2840

Richard le Fisher is also known as Richard Dudley.

But if he’s her second husband, their son Richard wasn’t born until after 1359 (John Sutton’s death). Yet her primary heir in 1402 is

  • (great grand) son John,
  • (grand) son of John,
  • son of Isabel and John,

and aged 21 years (b 1381) 3 weeks and more.

Are there any studies or articles showing it the way I’m seeing it?

And am I seeing it right?

I’m seeing it wrong, but not understanding how she’s having a son Richard on her late 50’s.

"She was a lady of such importance that the estates of her husband were settled in her by grant and foeffment in such a way that she retained them for life. For having carried the Dudley estates to her plebeian second husband, she kept the family of Sutton out of its own inheritance until at the ripe age of ninety, John de Sutton V, her great grandson, succeeded her. Her Worcesteshire I.P.M. says that the will of Dudley is worth per annum beyond reprise 22 pounds. That was in 1401." [Ref: G. Chandler & I. Hannah, _Dudley, As It Was And As It Is Today_, (1949) B.T. Batsford Ltd., London] Note: Charlton aka Cherleton...Curt

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