Vina Evans (Harjo or Phillips) - Parents

Debbie,

You would be correct to show Tiger Philip and Jane Philip as Vina (Harjo or Phillips') parents since her parents are indicated as such on the Dawes Census.

I don't have proof, but I suspect that Tiger Philip and Jane Philip may have been known by other names, including Parhose Harjo or Phillips and Eliza/Thlee-Sa-Ho-He Harjo or Phillips.

See: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/K2J5-L5D

The Dawes Census information shows a great number of listings and variations on the spelling of Pahosa Harjo or Phillips making it almost impossible to determine who's who and if they are the same person. (Ex.: Pahosa Phillips, Pahose Harjo, Parhos Harjo, Parhose Harjo, Parhose Harjo Phillips, and Tiger Philip. Complicating matters is the fact that he may have had multiple wives/partners!

I have chosen to show Vina's parents as Parhose Harjo Phillips and Eliza/Thlee-Sa-Ho-Hee since the majority of others I've have seen on genealogy sites show them this way or with similar spellings.

That is not to say that this is correct since these others do not site any specific source for this information, like you have done.

I am hoping that someone may be able to sort this all out by providing sources that would indicate who Vina's parents were and the various names they may have been known as.

If you find out more, I would appreciate a note advising as much and I will do the same.

Thanks for your email! Communications such as these help to keep family lineages correct.

Regards,

Mark

Debbie,

After replying to your email I found some source info that may be of value regarding "Parhose Harjo or Phillip".

I've posted the source info under the "Overview" tab.

Mark

Thanks, Mark.

I have been using their Dawes cards as my source for how to connect them.. I saw a lot of trees, as you said, have various names and even the various Dawes census doesn't always use the same spelling of a name - like the many different ones for Pahose, for example. But at least a Dawes census record is 'supposedly' as accurate as we can get on some of these folks.

After reviewing all the Dawes census and other documents attached to them on Geni, I concluded (for my tree anyway) that Parhose Harjo Phillips is the correct name, as best I can determine. Phillips being his surname and Harjo his middle name, basically. Most of the documents list him this way:

Name: Parhose Harjo Phillips
Spouse: Betsey Phillips
Child: Louisa Phillips; Taylor Phillips; Abbie Phillips

so, his wife and children are all shown using Phillips as their surname, not Harjo.

That comes from Oklahoma and Indian Territory, U.S., Dawes Census Cards for Five Civilized Tribes, 1898-1914 and others.

Vina's card shows;

Name: Vina Evans
Tribe: Creek
Father: Tiger Philip
Mother: Jane Philip
Spouse: R M Evans
Child: Mary A Evans; Minnie Evans; Newton Evans; Lona Evans; Harrison Evans; Lena Evans
Census Card Number1853
Field Number1857
Dawes Enrollment Number 5881
Enrollment Category: By Blood

Oklahoma and Indian Territory, U.S., Dawes Census Cards for Five Civilized Tribes, 1898-1914

as I had mentioned in an abbreviated form previously. And a census for Tiger shows:

Name: Tiger Philip
Spouse: Jane Philip
Child: Vina Evans

Oklahoma and Indian Territory, U.S., Dawes Census Cards for Five Civilized Tribes, 1898-1914

So that's what I've chosen to go with in my personal tree. No parents are shown for either Tiger or Jane.

I don't tend ot use Family Search. My personal experience has been there are lots of errors and little to no documentation on the lines I've searched for on there. They 'used' to be managed by the LDS but now anyone can build and add things on there, which they do. When I've used the Relative Finder tool on there, mine lines almost always have errors. So I don't really trust the information on there any more than I would just going to someone's tree that has no documentation because that's basically all that site has become now.

And, unfortunately, many people just use what is on other trees and don't even bother to look at whether there is documentation of the connections or not. At this point, I have no reason to believe, much less feel certain, that Tiger and Parhose are the same person. Same for Jane and Eliza. Those names are just too different, definitely not just spelling variations. So I'm sticking with their Dawes card info.

Hope the info helps get their lines correctly connected.

Debbie

I put the documents under Vina's Media tab.

Also, I think it's clear her maiden name was Philip, not Harjo. Just mentioning that since I see it so often as ti is here listing it as 'Harjo or Phillips', when the Census records never show her as a Harjo.

The Dawes census records are documentation. Other people's trees aren't, no matter how many perpetuate the same errors. Just saying...

Debbie,

I've removed Vina as a daughter of Parhose Phillips and placed her as the daughter of Tiger and Jane Philip since this is the only source that I could find that identifies her parents.

I've decided there's no point in speculating if Parhose was the same person.

Thank you for contacting me about this issue. Your information was greatly appreciated.

Mark

Mark,

Yes, always better to stick with what is documented rather than speculated. If evidence is ever found that Parhose and Tiger are the same person, that can always be connected. Meanwhile, in case they're not the same person, we know from documentation that we have her parents names as they appeared on their census records. Thank you so much for your assistance.

Debbie