Christian Rutherford - Incorrect parents?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Wednesday, April 20, 2022
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Steven Evans Bell, of Ngāti Hāuaroa says of Christian Rutherford

"Christian Rutherfoord was the daughter of James Rutherfoord of that Ilk and Margaret Erskine.", and not Thomas.
https://thepeerage.com/p1490.htm#i14892

Otherwise this Christian Rutherford can not be Sir Robert Kerr, younger of Cessford's wife.
https://thepeerage.com/p1490.htm#i14891

Thomas was Christian's brother, now that makes sense... https://thepeerage.com/p53370.htm#i533697

If this isn't sorted bythe weekend, please call me back here and I'll help.

Steven Evans Bell, of Ngāti Hāuaroa you're using an internet site as your primary proof. We need to compare the sources here. The peerage.com is no more likely to have this correct than the quality of their sources.

The Universal magazine, Volume 60 Pg. 264 Pub. for J. Hinton, 1777: has Robert Ker married to Christian Rutherford, daughter of Philip Rutherford leaving a son, Sir Andrew Keer in 1500.

The most Philip's About says about the possibility of Christian is "two daughters":

Extract from The Rutherfurds of that Ilk, and their cadets. by Thomas H. Cockburn-Hood (Edinburgh 1884) pages x (http://archive.org/details/rutherfurdsoftha00ruth)

Philip, eldest son and apparent heir of James Rutherfoord, of that ilk, married Elizabeth, daughter of the said Sir Walter Ker of Cessford (the two fathers being the parties contracters), by whom he had a son, Richard, who succeeded his grandfather, and two daughters.

But, The Landed Gentry has on p1391 https://archive.org/details/genealogicalhera02byuburk/page/1390/mod... the names of those 2 daughters of Philip as Helen and Christian, and marries Christian to James Stuart - and the Estates of Rutherfordand Wells passing to the Stuarts through her. So, this Catherine Rutherford isn't the one we're discussing.

Of course, this is published later - but pending us finding better sourced contradictions, I'm happy to go with it.

Oh wow, I'm very impressed by your research skils...

Thank you. They haven't solved this puzzle yet :-) Just eliminating possibilities.

It does, however, appear that our profile for Catherine: Catherine Rutherford is, in fact the same as the person being indicated above as Christian. Merging them.

Thank you... Really interesting...

Christian Rutherford is my 19th cousin four times removed.
Lord Thomas Rutherfurd is my 18th cousin five times removed.
Sir Robert Kerr of Calverton is my 15th cousin 8 times removed.
Christian Rutherford is my 16th cousin 7 times removed.
Philip Rutherford, younger of that Ilk is my18th cousin five times removed.

Still haven't solved it though.

No evidence, so far, as you pointed out, that Christian is the daughter of Thomas. ..

No - here it is in
(Rutherfurds of that Ilk, and their cadets by Thomas H. Cockburn-Hood, pub. 1884) pg x

He [James] died in the year 1493, and by the said Margaret, a daughter of the Lord Erskine, he had issue two sons and one daughter :
&
I. Philip, his apparent heir.
II. Thomas, who at last became heir-male of the family, as will be shown hereafter.
His daughter Christian was married to Sir Robert Ker
, only son and apparent heir of Sir Walter Ker of Cessford, ancestor of the Duke of Roxburgh. [1-Charta penes ducem de Roxburgh, ad annum 1484.]

Also here (Rutherfurds of that Ilk, and their cadets by Thomas H. Cockburn-Hood, pub. 1884) pg x-xi

Philip, eldest son and apparent heir of James Rutherfoord, of that ilk, married Elizabeth, daughter of the said Sir Walter Ker of Cessford (the two fathers being the parties contracters), by whom he had a son, Richard, who succeeded his grandfather, and two daughters : 2 [Charta penes ducem de Roxburgh, ad annum 1484. Contract ibid. Dispensation from Pope, for this marriage, 9th Nov. 1565, orig. bull. ibid.]
I. Helen, married first to Sir John Fore- man of Davine, Knight, and secondly to Andrew Rutherfoord of Hunthill, which appears by charter under the Great Seal, Andreae Rutherfoord de Hunthill et Helense Rutherfoord, ejus sposae, of the lands of Kephope, &c. 20th August 1529, but she had no issue to either.
II. Catherine, married to James Stuart of Traquair. 1 [Chart, penes comitem de Traquair.] She at last became heir of line of the Rutherfoords of that ilk, on which account the family of Traquair have ever since con- tinued to quarter the arms of Ruther- foord with their own.

  • Rutherford book pub 1884 = Catherine d/o Philip x James Stuart of Traquair
  • Burkes Landed Gentry pub c 1833 = Christian d/o Philip x Christian x James Stuart, ancestor to the Earls of Traquair (see above https://www.geni.com/discussions/248463?msg=1557959)
  • Rutherford footnote proof = Chart, penes comitem de Traquair.
  • Burke doesn’t show his source, and is known to have included apocryphal detail in his books

so I’m inclined to side with the Rutherford book and say her name was Catherine not Christian. cf Catherine Rutherford

(Rutherfurds of that Ilk, and their cadets by Thomas H. Cockburn-Hood, pub. 1884) pg x-xii on James' [[James Rutherford, 9th of that Ilk James Rutherford, 9th of that Ilk] children:

IX. James Rutherfoord, of that ilk, who in a gift of the patronage of the Kirk of Rutherfoord, which formerly belonged to the Earl of Douglas, is designed Alius et hseres quondam Jacobi Rutherfoord, de eodem, 13 July 1457.
He appears to have been in great favour both with King James II. and III.
He was named one of the Conservators of a truce with the English, anno 1457. 1[ Rymer, torn. XI. p. 397]
He was afterwards appointed one of the Wardens of the Marches, anno 1457. 2 [Ibid]
He got a charter under the Great Seal, Jacobi Rutherfoord de eodem, of the lands and barony of Hownam, Capehope, Swinset, and others, 8th August 1471. 3 [ Chart, in pub. Archiv]
He got another charter de jure patronatus . ecclesise de Bethrule, &c, 13th June 1482. 4 [Ibid]
Also a charter of several other lands to him and Margaret Erskine, his spouse, dated 14th December 1483. 5 [Ibid]
He afterwards got a charter from King James IV. terrarum baroniae de Edzerston, 15th January 1492.
He was appointed one of the Commissioners for settling the marches on the borders, under the designation of James Lord Rutherfoord, anno 1484. 6 [Rymer, torn. XII. p. 246.]
Also another charter from the same prince confirming a charter granted by Mr. Douglas, of Cavers, as superior of the lands of Rutherfoord and Wells, to himself and Richard Rutherfoord, his grandson and apparent heir, and his heirs male, which failing, to his second son, Thomas Rutherfoord, and Robert, his son and apparent heir, and his heirs male. The confirmation is dated on the said 15th day of January 1492. 7 [Chart, in. pub. Archiv.]

He died in the year 1493, and by the said Margaret, a daughter of the Lord Erskine, he had issue two sons and one daughter :

I. Philip, his apparent heir.

II. Thomas, who at last became heir-male of the family, as will be shown hereafter.
His daughter Christian was married to Sir Robert Ker, only son and apparent heir of Sir Walter Ker of Cessford, ancestor of the Duke of Roxburgh. 1[Charta penes ducem de Roxburgh, ad annum 1484]

I think that the positioning of Christian as James, not Thomas's daughter must come from a misinterpretation of the above.

(Rutherfurds of that Ilk, and their cadets by Thomas H. Cockburn-Hood, pub. 1884) pg x-xii on James' [[James Rutherford, 9th of that Ilk James Rutherford, 9th of that Ilk] children:

IX. James Rutherfoord, of that ilk, who in a gift of the patronage of the Kirk of Rutherfoord, which formerly belonged to the Earl of Douglas, is designed Alius et hseres quondam Jacobi Rutherfoord, de eodem, 13 July 1457.
He appears to have been in great favour both with King James II. and III.
He was named one of the Conservators of a truce with the English, anno 1457. 1[ Rymer, torn. XI. p. 397]
He was afterwards appointed one of the Wardens of the Marches, anno 1457. 2 [Ibid]
He got a charter under the Great Seal, Jacobi Rutherfoord de eodem, of the lands and barony of Hownam, Capehope, Swinset, and others, 8th August 1471. 3 [ Chart, in pub. Archiv]
He got another charter de jure patronatus . ecclesise de Bethrule, &c, 13th June 1482. 4 [Ibid]
Also a charter of several other lands to him and Margaret Erskine, his spouse, dated 14th December 1483. 5 [Ibid]
He afterwards got a charter from King James IV. terrarum baroniae de Edzerston, 15th January 1492.
He was appointed one of the Commissioners for settling the marches on the borders, under the designation of James Lord Rutherfoord, anno 1484. 6 [Rymer, torn. XII. p. 246.]
Also another charter from the same prince confirming a charter granted by Mr. Douglas, of Cavers, as superior of the lands of Rutherfoord and Wells, to himself and Richard Rutherfoord, his grandson and apparent heir, and his heirs male, which failing, to his second son, Thomas Rutherfoord, and Robert, his son and apparent heir, and his heirs male. The confirmation is dated on the said 15th day of January 1492. 7 [Chart, in. pub. Archiv.]

He died in the year 1493, and by the said Margaret, a daughter of the Lord Erskine, he had issue two sons and one daughter :

I. Philip, his apparent heir.

II. Thomas, who at last became heir-male of the family, as will be shown hereafter.
His daughter Christian was married to Sir Robert Ker, only son and apparent heir of Sir Walter Ker of Cessford, ancestor of the Duke of Roxburgh. 1[Charta penes ducem de Roxburgh, ad annum 1484]

I think that the positioning of Christian as James, not Thomas's daughter must come from a misinterpretation of the above.

Burkes has https://archive.org/details/genealogicalhera02byuburk/page/1392/mod... p 1391 -2

RUTHERFURD OF FAIRNINGTON… lineage…
Among the earliest of the names of Rutherford are to be found Robertus, Dominus de Rutherford, witness to a charter granted by David I. to Gervasus Ridal 1140, and a Rutherford or Rordesforde in the charter of William the Lion 1165. During the period from 1105 to 1249 occur the names of Gregory and Nicholas Rutherford. Sir Robert Rutherford, the friend of Robert Bruce, is mentioned in Barbour's History of that Prince.
In 1398, Sir Richard Rutherford, of that ilk, was Ambassador to the Court of England, and in 1400 was one of the Wardens of the Marches. By his wife Jane Douglas, he had three sons;

  • James, who .s. him, had a charter of the lands of Lethbertshiels and others;
  • John, ancestor of Rutheford of Hunt hill, who eventually enjoyed the honours and titles of Lord Rutherford and Earl of Teviot; and
  • Nichol, who obtained charters of the lands of Mackerston and others, and was ancestor of the Rutherfords of Hundalee. James and Nichol were appointed guarantees of a treaty with the English 1449.

James Rutherford, son of the last-mentioned James, obtained, 1457, a charter of lands to him and his spouse, Margaret Erskine, dau. of Lord Erskine. He had a grant from James IV. of the lands of Edgerston in 1492, and shortly after of the lands of Eutherford and Wells. By his said wife he had two sons, Philip and Thomas. The elder son,

PHILIP RUTHERFORD, m. Elizabeth, dau. of Walter Ker, of Cessford, ancestor of the Dukes of Roxburghe, and had (with a son,

Richard, who d. s. p.) two daus., the elder,
Helen, m. twice, and d. s. p. ; the younger.
Christian, m. James Stuart, ancestor to the Earls of Traquair, and through her the estates of Rutherford and Wells passed to the family of Stuart; and the Earls of Traquair, in right of this marriage, quartered the arms of Rutherford with their own. On the death of the above Richard without issue, the lands and barony of Edgerston reverted to his uncle,

THOMAS RUTHERFORD, heir male of the family: and his son,

Robert, obtained a confirmation of the same under the Great Seal 1559. This Robert was s. by his son,

THOMAS RUTHERFORD, commonly called the black Laird of Eutherford, renowned for the exploits of himself and his nine sons on the borders. His son,

Richard Rutherford, of that ilk, m. the granddau. of the Laird of Buccleuch, and had a son,

ROBERT RUTHERFORD, who m. Margaret Riddell, dau. of the Laird of that ilk, and had a son,

JOHN RUTHERFORD, of that ilk. who acted a gallant and distinguished part in the Civil War, and was instrumental in restoring Charles II. He m. Barbara Abernethy, dau. of the Bishop of Caithness (by a dau. of Murray, of Philiphaugh), and had issue surviving sons,

ANDREW, s. to the estates in 1686, and d. s. p. 1713.
THOMAS RUTHERFORD, of that ilk, of Edgerston and Wells, successor to his brother, acquired the lands of Bonjedward and Mounthooly, together with the lands of Hunthill and Scraisburgh, from Robert, Lord Rutherford, who likewise assigned to Thomas (with the estate) the title of Lord Rutherford, in like manner as it had been assigned to his brothers and to him by the Earl of Teviot, by virtue of the patent, which was the only right they had. But Thomas contented himself with assigning it in like manner to his son and successor, who likewise declined claiming it.
Robert, became Rutherford of Bowland, and was ancestor (through the female line) of Sir Walter Scott, Bart, of Abbotsford.


It was, however, assumed by Capt. John Rutherford, collateral heir male, descended from Richard Rutherford of Littlehaugh, and since by others. He m. Susanna, dau. and heiress of Riddell, of Minto, and had issue (with five daus.) one son.

SIR JOHN RUTHERFORD, of that ilk, s. his father 1720. He m. 1st, 1710, Elizabeth Cairncross, heiress of the ancient and honourable family of Colmslie, and had nineteen children, of whom the eldest son,

John, was ancestor (in the female line of William Oliver-Rutherford, Esq. of Edgerton ; the 2nd son was
THOMAS, of whose line we treat [below]; another son,
Robert, a baron of the Russian Empire, purchased back, 1779, the old family property of Fairnington ; and another son
Walter, m. Mary, dau. of Gen. Alexander. Of the daus.,
Susanna, m. Alexander Pringle, of Whytbank;
Mary, m Sir Alexander Nisbet, of Dean;
Elizabeth, m John Horsburgh. of that ilk; and
Jean m. Charles Inglis, of Manorhead.

Sir John m. 2ndly, 1741, Sarah, sister of Sir Alexander Nisbet, Bart., by whom he had also a son and a dau.,

Henry, of Hunthill, m. Agnes Lauder, and had issue.
Christian, m. Dr. Davidson, of Hatton and Muirhouse.

The 2nd son [see above],

Thomas RUTHERFORD, Esq. m 1745, Martha, dau. of Alder- man Town, of York, and dying 1749, left a son,

John RUTHERFORD, Capt. 42nd regt., and Major Dumfries Militia, m. 1st, 1769, Eleanor, dau. of Thomas Chalke, Esq. of Artane and Grange, co. Dublin (by Anne Gordon his wife), and by her (who d. 1795) had issue,

John, b. 1777; d. unm. I15I2.
Charles, b. 1780; d. unm. 1846. Thomas, of Fairnington.
Martha, m. Charles Robson, Esq.
Eleanor, m. William Elliott, Esq. of Harwood.

He m 2ndly, Agnes, dau. of J. Chatto, Esq. of Mainhouse, and by her (who d. 1850) had a son,

Walter, m. Mary, dau. of Capt. Knight, R.N., and d. 1856, leaving issue two sons and two daus. He d 1830, and was s. by his son,

Thomas RUTHERFORD, Esq. of Fairnington, J. P., b. 1784; m. Caroline Sanderson, dau. of William Ball, Esq. of London <by Lydia Wyvil his wife), and had issue,

Henry, now of Fairnington.
Thomas Walter, b. 4 Sept. 1832, H.M. Indian Staff Corps.
Charles Ferdinand, b. 24 Jan. 1834; 1,1. 1 Oct. 18.i9, Harriet Guilliam, dau. of Rev. George S. Parsons, Government Chaplain, and lncumbent of St. Mary'.s, Castletown, Isle of Man.
John, b 20 Feb. 1835, in H.M. Indian Navy.
William, 6. 26 April, 1836. Richard Capel, b. 2 April, 1837.
Edward, b. 7 Feb. 1839; d. 14 Nov. 1870.
James, b. 9 Jan. 1842, H.M. Indian army.
George, b. 6 Sept. 1845; d 2 Jan. 1851.
Caroline, m. 1863, Lieut. -Col. Raynsford, of the E.I.C.S.
Ellen.
Eliza Lydia.
Agnes Matilda,

He d. 27 March, 1863.

So Burke also has Christian x James Stuart as the daughter of Philip,
but leaves out the daughter of Philip's, brother:Thomas =Christian x Robert Ker, that Rutherfords shows

As your source, https://thepeerage.com/p1490.htm#i14892, cites only [S6055] Thomas H. Cockburn-Hood, The Rutherfurds of that Ilk (n.p.: n.pub., 1884) as proof that Christian is James' daughter, I'm going to stick with my assumption that the positioning of Christian as James, not Thomas's daughter must come from a misreading of the break positioned in the text, as I said above, and as can be seen clearly here https://archive.org/details/rutherfurdsoftha00ruth/page/n23/mode/2up
Unless the dates of this married couple seem very odd, I think we should use the Rutherfords interpretation as the only one we actually have.

Or, more succinctly:

PARENTAGE OF CHRISTIAN x Robert Ker
The Universal magazine, Volume 60 Pg. 264 Pub. for J. Hinton, 1777 has Christian as the daughter of Thomas' brother Philip, BUT The Rutherfurds of that Ilk, and their cadets by Rutherfurd, Family of, of Rutherfurd; Cockburn-Hood, Thomas H pub 1884 has her as the daughter of Thomas; and Burke's Landed Gentry pub 1833 has Philip's daughter, Christian (who Rutherfords calls Catherine) marrying James Stuart, ancestor to the Earls of Traquair.

Thanks so much for this, very much appreciated, I also changed my own personal tree to suit.

:-)

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