Jakov Jacques Hercl (Herzl) - discrepancy sources

Started by Angelique Kuster on Tuesday, February 8, 2022
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There is a discrepancy with the sources of Jacov Jacques Herzl.

1) According to a testimony of Grete Laskin Herzl, her gr. grandfather Mosche Herzel, was brother of Theodor Herzl grandfather.
If so, he is Moshe Laferno Herzl.
http://joz.rs/grobljeweb/b/v/v-01-02.html
see below Additional info about the family

2) In the Hebrew Herzl tree I come to mind that Jacov Jaques Herzl is a son of Moses Herzl (who is a son of Jacov)
Here a fragment genealogy
Jakob Herzl

3) on the obituary of Jacov Jaques Herzl's son Oskar, his uncle Albert Herzl is mentioned.
Jacov had a brother Albert.
Oskar Hercl Herzl

4) On the tombstone of Jacov Jaques Herzl his father is mentioned as Moses Hacohen Herzl. Moshe Laferno Herzl was converted to the Serbian
Orthodox faith. Is it common to be listed in this way as no longer Jewish?

Who is the real father of Jacov Jaques Herzl? Mosche Laferno Herzl or Moses Herzl?

Tks Angelique. Which is the origin of this genealogical image that you added to Jakob Herzl profile. At first sight, it seems to be something done by an individual, not an organization. Am I right?

The problem is that the tree is handwritten and when enlarged some letters merge and are not legible. I think it's a professional tree.
Who the creator or organization is probably listed below
With my ulpan hebrew it is just too difficult. I can largely follow the family tree and it is correct so far but is not complete.

I think the most reliable source is the tombstone. On the tombstone of Jacques Herzl are blessing hands and HaCohen. Also on the other graves of descendants of Moses David Herzl and Rivka Herzl-Simon are these blessing hands..
I don't see that in the descendants of Leopold Lobl and Verana Frumet Herzl.
Or is it there and I don't see it. This is the tombstone of Simon Leib Herzl the brother of Mosche Laferno.
http://joz.rs/grobljeweb/b/v/v-01-02.html

According to the family tree, the parents of Simon leib Herzl have the same grandfather Avigdor leo Leib Herzl. Then Leopold Lobl's branch should also be Cohens?

Angelique, I incidentally saw this thread. That hand-draw tree is very interesting. It seems to be part of a larger tree. I'm curious (as Emil asked earlier), where did you find it. Maybe you can post a link or some info about the source in the photo details?

Theo, It is not an internet tree so there is no link.
The Herzl family from Zemun are Kohanim. I can verify that with tombstone inscriptions from Moses David Herzl x Rivka Herzl Simon. His descendants of his sons have blessing hands on their tombstones.
The daughter of Moses David Herzl , Verrana Frumet Herzl married Leopold Lobl. Leopold changed his name to Herzl. Their descendants have different surnames : Lobl, Herzl, Lobl Herzl.
So far, I have not come across any blessing hands on their tombstones.
If I am sure that Leopold Lobl Herzl is not a Kohanim, then the mystery is who solved jaques Herzl's father.
http://joz.rs/grobljeweb/b/i/i-01-16.html

OK, maybe I didn't ask the question clearly enough. That picture you posted with part of Herzl's family tree- where did you find it? Is it from a book if it's not from the internet?

I received that from someone. It could be from a book. There are only names on it, no dates. But together with the geni family tree, testimonies and tombstones, this is a tool to compare. I have temporarily placed 2 fragments because this is now a discussion point and others can see what I mean. A picture says more than 1000 words

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