Foreman family origins

Started by Erica Howton on Wednesday, November 10, 2021
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I see John Anthony Foreman, (II) (Indian trader) as born both in Scotland (which would make more sense) and in Philadelphia. If In Philadelphia, son of blacksmith John Forman, of Monmouth County & Jane Forman and also with a wife Elinor "Nelly" Forman as well as the “traditional”

Does anyone know? Nancy Hop

Thanks for any advice.

John Anthony Foreman was born about 1744 near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; his father may have been another John Anthony Foreman. In 1797 Indian Agent Silas Dinsmore provided Tennessee Governor Sevier with a list of white men in the Cherokee Nation. Included was "Anthony Foreman, trader and idler." (Dinsmore to Sevier, March 11, 1797. Transcript at https://www.tngenweb.org/tnletters/cher~e1.htm ) Emmet Starr described John Anthony as a "Scotchman," and granddaughter Malinda Redman said that he was an "Irishman," ( National Archives and Records Administration, Eastern Cherokee Applications of the Court of Claims. Application #3839, granddaughter Malinda (Bigby) Redman) but the Moravian missionaries met him in January of 1810 and wrote, "Mr. Foreman, a white man who settled here already some 40 years ago.... was born and reared not far from Philadelphia on the Schuylkill and seems to be of a different character from the white people who have mixed with the Indians here. " (Crews & Starbuck, eds. Records of the Moravians Among the Cherokees. Cherokee Heritage Press, Tahlequah, OK. Vol. 3, pp. 1359-1360 )

I don't think there is any accurate information on his parents although there are plenty of Internet trees that provide them for him.

So it looks like the profile Nancy Hop is invented altogether, and we should top off at John Anthony Foreman, (II) who married Kah-tah-yah ‘Susie’ Foreman

I'm not aware of any documentation for parents of John Anthony Foreman. He married two Cherokee women named Susie and Elizabeth (Susie's niece) whose parents are also unknown. There is no evidence for the name "Gourd" and absolutely nothing to connect them with Rattling Gourd (who was 20-25 years younger than Susie). There is a possibility that Susie's father was named Teetarskeeskee.

Re: Wa-Tee ‘Elizabeth’ Foreman

James Hicks has

(2) ELIZABETH WA-TI GURDAYGLE Abt. 1799 in Cherokee Nat, NC, daughter of GURDAYGLE and SARAH TI-TA-S-GI-S-GI.She was born Abt. 1770, and died January 08, 1845.

But I could swear I saw that Susie and Betsey were aunt / niece “maternally.”  Or we don’t know either way?  In other words - do we know Elizabeth’s parents names?  Also, a note she had a previous marriage.

https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/BOOK-0001/0013...

—-

The children seem all correct.

As usual no clue where Hicks got that information. Starr says "Anthony Foreman married two Cherokee women of the Bling Savannah Clan, Susie and her niece Elizabeth. Susie was the maternal aunt of Elizabeth. Elizabeth died January 8, 1845. (Starr's notes A860 and H879)

Other accounts list Elizabeth as Wuttie or similar. Wuttie was often turned into "Betty" in English, and then extrapolated to "Elizabeth."

TI-TA-S-GI-S-GI is transliterated to Teetarskeeskee. I don't know what supporting docs there might be to support Hicks' theory.

If Starr said maternal, then Hicks is … ignoring that? The name SARAH TI-TA-S-GI-S-GI implies a “sister of Susie’s father.”

Did you see that supposedly Susie turned into Nancy Field in 1828?

I took the maiden names out of the wives profiles since we don’t quite understand who they’re supposed to be. :). That feels better.

This list is great. https://www.tngenweb.org/tnletters/cher~e1.htm

Tonio at Pine Log Span Unknown, a troublesome bad character

Bob Kilgore The worst of bad characters

George Philips None and ranks high among the most worthless

I love that list, the descriptions are priceless! Dinsmore didn't think much of most of the men and he was probably right. I'm sure a lot of men claimed they were "traders" so they wouldn't get thrown out and many of them had Cherokee wives, which Dinsmore probably didn't approve of either.

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