Accommodating ONE Geni-User

Started by Private User on Saturday, November 6, 2021
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Private User
11/6/2021 at 5:02 PM

One Geni-User believes (apparently based on a very idiosyncratic idea of interpreting DNA matches combined with believing some people do not look alike, etc.) that his biological lineage does not match the one shown by documentation.

We now have
1) The person he believes is his biological paternal grandfather: Private which I see currently as <private> Bloom but used to see as David Walter Bloom
2) And the person he believes is his biological paternal grandmother: Private whom I see currently as <private> Siegel

3) And the person the records show is his paternal grandfather: Jacob Siegel which is currently Public and I see currently as Jacob Siegel
4) And the person the Records show is his paternal grandmother: Private whom I see currently as <private> (Bloom) Siegel but used to see as Mary (Bloom) Siegel

According to the Geni-User, his father's mother is the Rose, whom the documents show as his father's sister. And it definitely does sometimes happen that a child may be adopted by their grandparents and brought up as their child rather than grandchild.
So Mary is either the Geni-User's grandmother or great grandmother.
But ...

----

The father of Mary is Herbert (Herzl) Bloom
Herbert had been showing 2 wives, with Mary the child of the first wife. Multiple sources reported Herbert had three wives, with children by each.
We discovered a marriage record for one of his children, confirmed as the correct marriage record by a grandchild of that child of Herbert's.
I added a profile for that wife, now giving us all three wives, and changed the parents of her child accordingly.
Given the records we had, we now knew the order of the wives. Given the order of the wives and the birthdates of the children, it was clear Mary was not the child of the first wife. I changed the parents of Mary. I annotated all this on the Overview of Herbert = Herbert (Herzl) Bloom. This was on the evening of Oct. 26.
Personally, I expected that change to Mary's parents to last at most two minutes.
The Geni-User never changed the parents back.

There was / is a Public Discussion about Herbert's first wife -- https://www.geni.com/discussions/239814
We had reached the point where it was clear to us that Herbert's first wife, Frieda was not the same Frieda who married Emil Kamm.
The same Geni-User is adamantly insistent that they are the same Frieda.

On the morning of Oct. 28th the Geni-User apparently discovered something about the change we had made to Mary's parents.
He refused to even answer the question if he had ever obtained Mary's Death Record (which I asked here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/239814?msg=1517232)
Another user. asked him "what are the DNA matches that suggest that you are descended from Raphael Kamm? Who, how much shared cM, etc.?"
(https://www.geni.com/discussions/239814?msg=1517249)
To which he responded "I already submitted it to Mike Stangel with everything. Please fix it up on my tree."
To which, yes, I stated "If you want me to "fix it" the way you want it, then you have to convince me that you are correct."
Thinking that might inspire him to respond to one or both of those two previous questions.
I could not have stopped him from changing her parents back himself.
I do not know why he did not do so.

On 11/2/2021. Customer Service, instead of
1) insisting that Geni go with the evidence or
2) changing Mary's parents back, mastering her, and putting a note that there was a dispute over which of Herbert's wives was really her mother, but a direct descendant was adamant it was Frieda, and they were accomodating him,
Customer Service went with
3) apparently created a duplicate of Herbert and Mastering the original Herbert = Herbert (Herzl) Bloom with a Curator's Note up top: "Curator Note from Customer Service (11/2/2021):
Please do not merge with duplicate brother Herbert Rosenberg Bloom -- we have split / duplicated the bottom of this tree in order to accommodate users who cannot agree about parentage further down."

So now we have lots of duplicates and, it seems to me, a major mess.

Private User
11/6/2021 at 5:32 PM

It is very, very frustrating that, with no evidence supporting
1) that Herbert Bloom was the son of Jacob and Toba Rosenberg
2) that Kamm was the birth surname of Herbert's first wife, Frieda
3) that Mary was the daughter of Herbert's first wife, Frieda - and there is evidence to the contrary
4) that Herbert Bloom's wife Frieda was the same Frieda who married Emil Kamm - and there is evidence to the contrary, plus an active Geni-User related to the Frieda who married Emil Kamm (that Frieda's second great niece) who knows the were not the same Frieda
--That Geni insists all of those be shown on Geni to accommodate one Geni-User.

Private User
11/6/2021 at 6:01 PM

So now we have
Herbert = Herbert (Herzl) Bloom
and
Herbert's duplicate Private who apparently has a child
Private who is a
Partner of Freida Kamm = Freida Kamm and <private> Siegel = Private
And That Frieda makes THREE. Frieda's who are currently shown as the Daughter of Rafael Kamm and Fagel (Tand) Kamm
even tho there should only be ond, and that one with one husband only, that being Emil Kamm

Private User
11/6/2021 at 6:44 PM

Did a search on David Walter Bloom - whom this Geni-User believes is his biological paternal grandfather --
turns out. that the private> Bloom who is a
Partner of Freida Kamm and <private> Siegel is David Walter Bloom.
That would be a Duplicate of David Walter Bloom who is Child of Herbert (Herzl) Bloom and Freida (Kamm) Bloom and. Spouse of Clara (Ferrin) Bloom -- but this Geni-User's re-doing of him to accord with this Geni-User's theory of something

11/6/2021 at 6:47 PM

This would make one heck of a soap opera.

Private User
11/7/2021 at 8:56 AM

The Rose shown on Census Records, etc. to be the sister of this Geini-User's father is Rose Nachman (Rose (Siegel) Nachman)
The Rose showing now as his paternal grandmother is, as I mention above, Private - who comes up on a search for Rose Siegel. She is "Child of <private> Siegel and <private> Siegel
Partner of <private> Bloom
Parent of <private> Siegel"
So we have another duplicate created by this user to show what he thinks her biological lineage is based on 1) his belief Rose is his father's biological mother AND 2) what he thinks his DNA matches and/or his wishes show and what therefore his biological lineage must be.(according to him)

Private User
11/7/2021 at 9:30 AM

The paternal grandfather of the Rose Siegel duplicate/alternate he created for his biological paternal grandmother is A. Siegel (A. Siegel) whose profile he created on Nov. 2 - and who is also probably an alternate for a profile that already exists.
Currently his immediate family is only: Father of <private> Siegel

That is Private (Geni ID 6000000179761229837) whose Immediate Family is:
1) Child of A. Siegel
2) Spouse of <private> Siegel = Private (Geni ID 6000000179760017883) who is
Child of <private> Bloom and <private> Kamm
Spouse of <private> Siegel (Geni ID 6000000179761229837)
Parent of <private> Siegel (Geni ID 6000000179761231835)
3) Parent of <private> Siegel = (Geni ID 6000000179761231835), [not surprisingly, her child = child of her spouse] the profile who shows as the Geni-Users biological paternal grandmother)

Private User
11/7/2021 at 9:33 AM

AH - and now the profile for A. Siegel has been deleted.

Private User
11/7/2021 at 9:57 AM

But now he has added Rafael Kamm (Rafael Kamm Geni ID 6000000179901561835) as the son of
Genendel Glucklich (Genendel Glucklich Geni ID 6000000179901777822)
Wife of Private (Salomon Kamm Geni ID 6000000179901614863)
Daughter of Mendel Glucklich and Blume Glucklich
all of which he just added today, and all except Blume are duplicates of Profiles that already existed.

Private User
11/7/2021 at 10:11 AM

YOU SCREWED UP ON MY FAMILY TREE

Private User
11/7/2021 at 10:39 AM

Private User - I believe you are referring to one very easy to reverse change I made.
If I am right as to what change you are referring to, I did not realize it would upset you since the person you said was your biological paternal grandfather still went thru that line
And I have no idea why you did not simply reverse it if it was upsetting to you.
If I am wrong, then I have no idea what you are referring to.

Private User
11/7/2021 at 10:47 AM

I am NOT biological paternal grandfather Jacob Siegel period

Private User
11/7/2021 at 11:04 AM

Geni's policy has always been - if there are disagreements, evidence is to be presented until it is clear which is correct.

I cannot imagine why it was decided this long-standing very basic tenet of Geni does not apply to you
and you should be allowed to enter whatever you want without providing any evidence at all on the profile, in documents attached to the profile, or in Public Discussion except assertions about DNA which are not based on any form of DNA analysis any of us had ever heard of and you refused to give any references for or to explain.

Do you have any idea why they are violating that policy for you?
Are you the only one or??

Private User
11/7/2021 at 11:10 AM

I have DNA evidence from AncestryDNA matches cousins. I was done with Leslie and Jess for DNA analysis with DNA painter.

Private User
11/7/2021 at 11:58 AM

The DNA details you provided from Ancestry for shared DNA between you and Jess and Alexander and etc. are all compatible with the lineage the documents show.
See https://www.geni.com/discussions/239445?msg=1514013

If there is DNA evidence supporting any of your claims, you have failed to present it.
Your made comments referring to inlaw paths on Geni as if they were useful for proving how matches were biologically connected, which they are not.
You made comments about matches in common, apparently without realizing that
being from an endogamous population, matches in common do not prove anything.
But you have provided zero DNA evidence supporting your statement.

>>>

One can only use DNA Painter with regard to sites with a Chromosome Browser. So not with AncestryDNA because it does not have a Chromosome Browser.
Did you create a Profile for yourself and enter the Chromosome Browser info for Jess and Leslie (from a site other than Ancestry) on it and then stop?
Is that what you meant by " I was done with Leslie and Jess for DNA analysis with DNA painter." -
Or what is it saying?

Private User
11/7/2021 at 12:04 PM

I already submitted a ticket for my DNA evidence last week.

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