Maud Seymour (Esturmy) - Who was her mother?

Started by dale scott on Saturday, November 6, 2021
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11/6/2021 at 3:21 PM

Some sites give her mother as Joan Crawthorne, while others give Joan Stockhay, Stockheye, Storey, or Stokey.

Wikitree= Joan Crawthorne
Wikipedia=Joan Crawthorne
Fabpedigree=Joan Crawthorne
History of Parliament=Joan Crawthorne:
Our Royal=Joan Stockhay
Geni = Joan Storey
Douglas Richardson=JOAN STOCKHEYE (or STOKEY)
According to Leo van de Pas, her mother was Joan de Stockhay and her grandmother was Joan de Crawthorne.

According to Leo van de Pas, Maud's mother was Joan de Stockhay and her grandmother was Joan de Crawthorne.
https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00331763&tr...
He cites
[S03964] Ancestor list of Lucy and Emily O'Connor 2015 , O'Connor, Robert.
and
https://fmg.ac/phocadownload/userupload/foundations3/JN-03-03/217Se...
THE SEYMOUR FAMILY OF HATCH, SOMERSET, AND
DE LA MARE FAMILY OF LITTLE HEREFORD
by Paul C Reed
Roger Seymour "married, about 1400, when he would have been about thirty, Maud Esturmy, who was much younger, possibly born about 1383." "Maud and Agnes were the two daughters and coheirs of Sir William Esturmy, the distinguished ambassador, courtier and Speaker of the House of Commons (1404), by his wife, Joan de Stockhay.66"
footnote66 "Joane, widow of Sir John Beaumont (d. 12 Mar 1379/80), of Shirwell and Saunton, co. Devon (by whom she had a son and heir), was daughter of John de Stockhey, or Stokey, by Jone, daughter and heir of Robert Crawthorn, of Crawthorn."

According to a an old post by Douglas Richardson, Maud's mother was JOAN STOCKHEYE (or STOKEY),
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/aw__AFcfrgc
6. WILLIAM ESTURMY (or STURMY), Knt., of Wolfhall (in Great Bedwyn),
Burbage, Cowesfield (in Whiteparish), etc., hereditary Warden of Savernake Forest ... He
married 1382 JOAN STOCKHEYE (or STOKEY), died 1429, widow of John de Beaumont, Knt., of Saunton (in Braunton) and Shirwell, Devon, and daughter and co-heiress of Robert de Stockheye, Esq.

https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p738.htm#... states her mother was Joan Stockhay and cites
[S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 108.
[S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 613.

There are others who give her mother as Joan Crawthorne

History of Parliament online states William Esturmy married Joan Crawthorne
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/s...
Published in The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1386-1421, ed. J.S. Roskell, L. Clark, C. Rawcliffe., 1993
STURMY (ESTURMY), Sir William (c.1356-1427), of Wolf Hall in Great Bedwyn, Wilts. and Elvetham, Hants.
Family and Education
b.c.1356, s. of Geoffrey Sturmy and nephew and h. of Sir Henry Sturmy† of Wolf Hall. m. 1382, Joan Crawthorne (d. 20 Feb. 1429), wid. of Sir John Beaumont† of Saunton and Sherwell, Devon, 2da.; 1s. John Sturmy† illegit.1 Kntd. by Oct. 1388.

The Baronetage of England: states Maud's mother was a Crawthorne, and her grandmother was a Stockey. Just the opposite of what Leo van de Pas thought.
https://books.google.com/books?id=5ikwAAAAYAAJ&q=Crawthorne...
The Baronetage of England: Or The History of the English Baronets ..., Volume 1 By William Betham
pg 426
...Melior, was the wife of Robert de Stockey. Joan, the last of this family that live here, carried these possessions, by marriage to ----Crawthorne; and Joan, their only daughter, brought the same, by her marriage to Sir John Beaumont, Knt. She was, secondly, the wife of Sir William Estumay....

A chorographical description or survey of the county of Devon. With additions By Tristram Risdon, p339 repeats the profile given in The Baronetage of England that Maud's mother was a Crawthorne, and her grandmother was a Stockey

Report and Transactions -Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature and Art - 1927, p307
States "Robert (54), who married Joan, daughter and heiress of Sir Thomas Stockhey (Devon, 1318) ; their only child Joan married (1) Sir John Beaumont and (2) Sir William Esturmy."

Wikipedia states Maud's mother, who first married John Beaumont, was a Crawthorne, but grand-daughter of Robert Stockey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manor_of_Shirwell
John Beaumont married Joane Crawthorne (or Crawstone), the heiress of her grandfather Sir Robert Stockey, MP in 1318.
Cites: Beaumont, Edward T., The Beaumonts in History. A.D. 850–1850. Oxford, c. 1929, (privately published), Chapter 5, pp.56–63, The Devonshire Family www.beaumontfamily.com/Downloads/BIHallchaps.pdf pg 62

This Wikipedia article also states Maud's mother, was a Crawthorne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Esturmy
Sir William Esturmy (died 1427
He married Joan Crawthorne, the widow of Sir John Beaumont of Shirwell and Saunton in North Devon, by whom he had no sons, only two daughters and co-heiresses including:
Maud Esturmy, wife of Roger II Seymour (c.1367/70-1420),[3] feudal barony of Hatch Beauchamp in Somerset, by whom she had a son John Seymour (d.1464) ancestor of Queen Jane Seymour.
References
Easton Royal History
The Lives of the Speakers of the House of Commons, from the Time of King Edward III to Queen Victoria: Comprising the Biographies of Upwards of One Hundred Distinguished Persons, and Copious Details of the Parliamentary History of England from the Most Authentic Documents, James Alexander Manning
Loades, David, The Seymours of Wolf Hall: A Tudor Family Story, Chapter 1: The Origins[1]
STURMY (ESTURMY), Sir William (c.1356-1427) of Wolf Hall in Great Bedwyn, Wilts

This source is obviously wrong, as it has it has the heiress of Stockhay marrying the heiress of Crauthorn. Could it be the source that Maud's mother was a Stockhay.?
https://books.google.ca/books?id=940xAQAAIAAJ&focus=searchw...
1. Devon & Cornwall Notes Queries, Volumes 26-27J.G. Commin, 1954
pg 82
He (John Beaumont) "married Joan the heiress of Robert Stockhay, who had married the heiress of Robert Crauthorn."

So, who do we believe? Was Maud's mother Joan Crawthorn or Joan Stockheye?

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