George Ross - George Ross in Sweden

Yes, I send the link and some others to Erik, that is the link I added at february in this discussion https://www.geni.com/discussions/207475?msg=1511645&page=2, but afterwards that discussion was more about American Ross line, so yei, this is good to have separate one.

I started adding some names to the tree. Hope we can find some duplicates in some where, if not, quite easy to find sources but needs work.

There were brothers William and George. George Ross is their father. William and his first descendants lived Finland and they are all found (There were only "one" Scottish Ross-family in Finland, we still have only
5 000 000 people at our whole country :) ).

George Ross lived in Sweden - that family needs to get written here from: https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/history/ssne/item.php?id=784&id2=784

(Finland was part of Sweden at those years, so the trade was continuous and supplies, silk, fabrics, tar, changed places on the west coast of Finland to Sweden daily.)

"Some genealogists have connected William Ross of Vasa, Finland to George Ross of
Haddington, Lauder in Scotland. The authors have been in correspondence with Bertil
Rostedt, who claims descendance from William Ross of Vasa. Rostedt has a letter dated
1817 written by an ancestor seeking ennoblement for the Ross family in Finland. This letter
specifies that William Ross had a brother, George, who was established in Stockholm and
with whom William engaged in trade during the 1630s."

Source: https://www.ssns.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Palm_Undin_2012_...

From the same source as above: "Ross moved from Stockholm to Sigtuna in the 1660s. There is one surviving letter from Ross to Queen Christina (undated) which is marked with the word ‘bankruptcy’, indicating that his Stockholm existence had perhaps come to a premature end. Further, a letter he wrote to Chancellor Magnus Gabriel de la Gardie in 1669 provides evidence that Ross owed his new position as customs officer to the Chancellor’s influence."

This "surviving letter" somewhere archived perhaps?

I hope you whe knows more about DNA in geneology find this site useful: https://www.rosssurnameproject.net/charts/ross-mrca-chart-reorganiz...

I have today added several (perhaps all the rest) siblings to Agnetha Ross, added by "S" yesterday - see Anna Ross

Absolutely it is the George Ross Erica asked about above (and tagged me in to get my reply). That is the one, and at Geni I am told: "George Ross is your 10th great grandfather".

Thank you so much Erik. https://riksarkivet.se/etusivu I think here might be something, there are still so much in Swedish archives that are not thoroughly researched nor necessarily exported to the Internet yet. Palm & Olin is good start.

About Sigtuna Scots with Military Connections: four Scottish officers serving in the Swedish army who can definitely be linked to Sigtuna. These men are: Alexander Craufurd (Crawford?),
Patrick Rutherford, James Seton and Humphrey Cunningham - I haven't still checked if they are in Geni, if not - there are plenty to start a project. It would be great to get our Swedesh families excited, now building those old trees is often dependent on Finnish projects.

I put this old blog also here, there are some mistakes, but good inspiration and from the same "three lions" family. https://blog.zaramis.se/2012/08/15/ross-i-norrkoping-och-goteborg/

Johan Vilhelminpoika Ross

Joskus myös näitä Suomesta Ruotsissa töissä kävässeitä voisi tutkailla, missä asuneet (sukulaisten hoteissa usein tuohon aikaan tyypillisesti), vaikka kuoli suhteellisen nuorena kuitenkin ehti toimia Västmanlandin ja Taalainmaan laamanninoikeuden notaarina 1696. Myös kanslisti suuressa lakikomissiossa Tukholmassa 1698.

https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/history/ssne/item.php?id=7304

I do not have doubt for William and George being brothers. BUT were their fathers name also George?

it says above that father was in debt in Sweden, but so was son George, many times, but they were business men - is it anyway possible that they are talking about the brother George, not the father?

What is the source that the father had debt "William's father was George Ross who came from Kindeis in Scotland and who was in debt in Sweden in 1617" And what is the source for fathers name? and year 1617, I assume there is source for specific year, son George was too young at that time.

Decades there were typewriter texts and copies at my household where was this "father called Hugh" and it does not let me be. This is just speculation though. Maybe Hugh is grand father.

https://gamlagoteborg.se/2014/04/10/brittiska-handelshus-och-handel...

If you find with name Ross from that page, there are plenty of clues, can you help finding them in Geni, Plenty of People.

Gustaf Ross (1706-41) var en av de tidiga superkargörerna i ostindiska kompaniet. Han genomförde tre resor som superkargör, en på Fredericius Rex Sueciae 1735-36 och två ombord på Stockholm åren 1737-42. På den sista resan dog han i Kanton. Han syster Maria Elisabeth Ross (1703-38) var gift med Frans Bedoire. De var barn till skepparen Niklas Ross (-1705) i Norrköping.

I found them here (they are also gang of three lions, as I like to call them :) ) But many more needs to be added to Geni

Gustaf Ross

Finding living descendant from "three lion gang in Sweden" can help. In Finland we do not have direct Ross male descendant for William Ross, but we might have one in Sweden - for George. With direct Y-DNA testing and wide other testing from male and female descendants we can maybe get somewhere, if we just continue detective work.

https://gamlagoteborg.se/2014/04/10/brittiska-handelshus-och-handel...;

"I Göteborg fanns också en George Ross som bodde tillsammans med och gjorde affärer ihop med Hugh Ross och alltså sannolikt var bror eller son till Hugh Ross."

That link gets us here: http://www.gbgtomter.se/Rote_5/5.42.pdf but instead of 1700- they take us to "our" George/Jöran Ross who is fighting in the court

https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/history/ssne/item.php?id=7191

So, now here are many sources that need more reading, and adding profiles to Geni. We have a good start here, thank you all, Saga

Remember the now erased "genealogy" telling about William Ross (b. 1598) and his father George, who's father's name was told to be "Hugh"? - That we could not proove, but, the name is interesting. Does these guys in Sweden add to our progress or lack of luck?

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/B0002224_00851#?c=&m......

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/B0002224_00852#?c=&m......

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/B0002224_00847#?c=&m......

https://gamlagoteborg.se/2014/04/09/ross-i-norrkoping-och-goteborg/

https://tainmuseum.org.uk/article.php?id=53

In the text I just linked to, this: /.../" It is circumstantially very likely that the cause of the fateful duel on “Duel Hill” just east of Tain, between Hugh Ross of Shandwick and Hugh Ross of Achnacloich on 13 June 1721, was at least partly political since Shandwick fled almost immediately to Gothenburg in Sweden, the home of many Jacobite exiles. We also know other members of his family, including his younger brothers Alexander and George, and nephew Andrew McCulloch joined him there. He was the son of Hugh’s sister Isabella and Robert McCulloch a merchant in Tain."/.../

/.../"The traditions heard in boyhood have made us all very familiar with a sad event which took place early in last century. There is a sandhill in the Fendom with which is connected the tradition of a duel fought between two neighbouring proprietors–Ross of Shandwick and Ross of Achnaclaich, who are said to have quarrelled at the time of a market. Achnaclaich was killed, and Ross of Shandwick, escaping on horseback, expatriated himself in Sweden. Bloodshed, it would appear, was not so lightly thought of then by the judicial authorities as at the time of the previous homicide I have mentioned. The impression this event made on the popular mind is evidenced by the careful preservation and renewal, generation after generation, of the footprints of the combatants at the spot where they fought, and of the prints of the hoofs of the fugitive's horse on the moist ground as he galloped over what has ever since been known as "The Duel Hill." What man here does not remember the awe with which, as a boy, he looked on those deep-cut marks, while listening to the story of the duel and of the flight?"/.../

That last quote is from: https://electricscotland.com/history/tain/chapter2.htm

This link http://forsman-koskimies.info/sukutaulut/ilmajoki/puu.pdf is given in the Geni-profile for Brita Mattsdotter Paldanius
This is the first time I see this huge tree (800 pages) I & we have been aware about but I have not seen it. If you look at page 2 and 23 you find exactly the filiations we with kind curator's help got away from Geni the first weeks of the year 2021.
What is yet something to find out more about is the dates given in the 'forsman-koskimies'-pedigree. And, when we want to find out more about these data we also like to see the whole ancestry if there are all those sources we so much need to be able to verify... verify anything and everything in genealogy.

Now I only copy this from the 'forsman-koskimies'-pdf:

[page 2:] "George Ross Halkhead 1563 - 1647" [see page:] "23"
[page 23:] "HENKILÖ1 George Ross Halkhead 1563 Lauder, Haddingtons 2.9.1647"
[his father:] "ISÄ2 Hugh Ross of Halkhead 1528 Hawkhead, Renfrewsh 11.11.1573 & 1560 Scotland"
[his father:] "ISÄNISÄ4 Ninian 3rd Lord of Halkh Ross 1491 Hawkhead Abbey, Ren 2.2.1556 & 12.10.1523 Ross And Cr"
[his father:] "Sir John Ross 2nd Lord Ross of Ha 1465 Halkhead, Renfrewsh 9.9.1513 & 27.9.1490 Hawkhead, Re"
[his father:] "Robert Ross 1445 - 1499"

[page 82:] "HENKILÖ1 Robert Ross 1445 Hawkhead, Renfrewsh 31.3.1499"
[his father:] "ISÄ2 John Ross 1425 Tulloch Castle, Din 16.10.1501 & 1445 Renfrewshire, Sco"
[his father:] "ISÄNISÄ4 John de Ros 1391 Hawkshead, Renfrew, 6.8.1447"
[his father:] "John de Ros 1365 Hawkshead, Renfrew, 10.1413"
[his father:] "John de Ros 1335 - 1390"

[page 129:] "HENKILÖ1 John de Ros 1335 Ayr, Scotland 30.11.1390"
[his father:] "ISÄ2 Godfrey de Ros 1292 Kendal Castle, West 4.1344"
[his father:] "ISÄNISÄ4 William de Ros 1272 Kendal Castle, Kend 9.5.1310"
[his father:] "Robert de Ros 1245 Wark On Tweed, Ackl 20.4.1274"
[his father:] "Robert de Ros 1198 - 1269"

[page 229:] "HENKILÖ1 Robert de Ros 1198 Wark on Tweed, Nort 11.1269"
[his father:] "ISÄ2 Robert de Ros 1169 Helmsley, Yorkshire 23.10.1226 & 1191 Haddington, Linco"
[his father:] "ISÄNISÄ4 Everard de Ros 1144 Helmsley, Yorkshire 1186"
[his father:] "Robert de Ros 1117 Helmsley, Yorkshire 1163"
[his father:] "Piers de Ros 1085 - 1130"

[page 379:] "HENKILÖ1 Piers de Ros 1085 Helsmley, Holdernes 1130"
[his father:] "ISÄ2 Malcolm de Ros 1064 Ros, Holderness, No 23.11.1098 & 1086 "
[his father:] "ISÄNISÄ4 Heth /Aethelred / Aedh/ de Ros 1048 Morayshire, Scotlan 1098 & 1068"
[his father:] "Malcolm III "Ceanmor" "B mac Donnchada 26.8.1031 Scotland 13.11.1093"
[his father:] "Duncan I " "the Gracious 1001 - 1040"

[page 499:] "HENKILÖ1 Duncan I " "the Gracious 1001 14.8.1040
[his father:] "ISÄ2 Crínáin of Dunkeld Toisto s. 423 / 2".

[page 432/ 2:] "ISÄ2 Crínáin of Dunkeld 975 1045"

THAT was the patrilinear ancestors to ONE George Ross as this hereby quoted research shows. - And, if every filiation can be prooved, but is that possible?, this would be the long looked for ancestor of the Ross-descendants in Finland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cr%C3%ADn%C3%A1n_of_Dunkeld

Hope this helps to include or exclude, butbased on sources.

Best regards
/ Erik Sjöblom

Erica Howton
Private User
Maarit Birgitta From
...hope you get some promt that I have written something above to get your or even more genealogists to give this yet another moment, to solve "the case", hopefully.

Hannu-Matti Johannes Järvinen Also Hannu-Matti Johannes Järvinen have given important contributions in this discussion earlier and I hope also him to evaluate the quotes I presented just here above.

Hej Erik those info are old internet pedigree, I have written them some years ago and also they do not show to have more sources, info was probably taken from Geni at time. They have changed it few times now. My immediate family (also descendants of Ross was married to representatives of that family - and they all knew about their shared Scottish roots at then also, more then over 100 years ago)

The one info I found from swedish records though and wrote it here somewhere when we were actively searching, is that Williams fathers name could have been Hugh who had earlier been mentioned to be George and the person who he came to Finland was uncle/halfbrother/cousin was instead George, (OR William had another cousin named George - anyhow from that George - he was the one living in Sweden and got himself in depts several times. At this info William was born 1598 Lauder, East Lothian, Scotland.

After founding out there might have been a mistake at fathers name, I have not continued research for a long time. So William came to Finland with a relative halfbrother/uncle/cousin George and father Hugh had died in Scotland...

The only finnish source is more the 100 years old and says that in Scotlands end who made research of our Williams roots were "öfer librarian A.H. Millar i Dundee" - arl Hedman: Ross, GSÅ 5, 1921 (Genealogiska Samfundet i Finland, Årsbok 5); Sylvi Möller: Suomen tapulikaupunkien valtaporvaristoja sen kaupankäyntimenetelmät 1600-luvun alkupuolella (Helsinki 1954).

What we really know is: William was richest man of (Finland under Swedish crown) Vasa and he became governor there. He also had ties to king and was making huge trade to Swedish crown and beyond Sweden's borders, a rare permit was required at that time. Those kind of positions at that time needed some kind of "pedigree" that has had to be known to make marriages to noble families. The city itself was an rich center of trading, especially the tar trade and being center of shipbuilding was successful and many of Vaasa's burghers amassed considerable wealth. Vasa was also the center of administration and administration of justice for a large area.

( There are some courtcases to be found how William has "been careful about money" and in the court books there is a document from Vaasa from year 1646 about a debt claim of 60 talars against Nicolaus Eliasson. This sum has been calculated by William Ross as the price of various alcohol cargoes that Niklas has received from him. However, Nicolaus has been so penniless that he has pledged his mansion against this debt. Unless William now receives his payment, he intends to retain the manor for himself.)

(All the Ross's descendants here in Finland are “from WIlliam”, we have a country of 5 000 000 people here, so quite a small country still and very good church records. Also other Scotsmen that have arrived at those times are quite well known in records)
a coat of arms where three lions have used on the Finnish side in the "funeral speech" of at the funeral of one of the male descendant of William Ross, I wrote more about that in the discussions here.

I have to say: I don't know if we will ever solve this riddle from William's exact roots. We can only assume the early ancestors of the family. On the Scottish side, there are a few options where the birth dates of the descendants match, but no more detailed information can be found online, where they died. So further studies are necessary.There would be archives on the Swedish side and someone should go and research them properly. Even better - someone go to Scotland <3 I would if I only could.