Harald Grenske - Disconnection of ancestry

I agree with the disconnection. To believe in the Sagas as perfectly accurate is wishful thinking at best. To me they seem to be bald faced lies to provide legitimacy to usurper "Kings" desperately trying to add legitimacy to their rule. To have the royal line dependent upon an apocryphal mating between Harald Fairhair and an Eskimo girl is not at all well documented and seems very dubious to me and scholars. This decision is unpopular with people wanting to trace their descent back to the first king but is widely viewed as accurate amongst the impartial.

I agree with much of what you're saying. The Sagas are definitely not an ideal source of information to build a line of descent. I do however believe there is a small margin of truth to what was written in them. If the sagas were completely disregarded as simple folklore, almost all noble profiles from the early to middle viking age would have to be disconnected theoretically. Like I stated I do agree with much of your stance on this matter, I'd just like to see a consideration of possibly reconnecting the parents with a strong note from a curator stating the issues you have already mentioned.

Your idea is a possible alternative to total disconnection. Maybe the curators will consider it. Good luck in your search for historical knowledge.

My “thinking” is merely that their are no written sources from back then besides the Saga, if that’s all we have to go off of then that is not fantasy or wishful thinking, it is what is there. If the curators do not want to reconnect the parents then that is their choice. As it stands then this profile may never be reconnected as I doubt any new information will ever arise to definitively prove or disprove any line of descent to Fairhair.

That being said I also agree with what Bjørn stated, that the saga profiles should remain accurate according to the sagas and not what some historians believe today. Their beliefs or theories about what Snorre recorded are simply that, their beliefs and theories, none of which can be proven or disproven as all we have for now is the saga to fall back on regardless of some possible doubt.

Totally wrongly done. Sagas are not fairytales and Skaldes were not "fairytale" poets. Sad to see this got cut. There has to be consistency in Geni. If this line is cut on bases "historians these days think..blah blah.." and not sources, ("winner" writes history) most of trees before 1600 should all be cut here? Bible trees are staying? For me it is totally ok and those cannot be even compared when we are looking at timelines, but this is not right.

http://www.vsnrweb-publications.org.uk/Heimskringla%20II.pdf

Here anyone interested can read the saga itself. Specifically in the beginning it mentions Óláfr, son of Haraldr inn grenski (the Grenlander). Chapter 35 mentions Haraldr and Óláfr as a direct male descent of Haraldr inn hárfagri. Read it yourself and make your own educated decisions.

Harald Grenske is your '(I.C.(Dz.))26th great grandfather.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
You Ingrida Cinkmane (Dzelvite)
→ Elza Dzelvite (Grahpe,Grāpe)
your mother → Jānis Grāpe(Grahpe)
her father → Baron Arnold Julius von Vietinghoff-Riesch
his father → Carl Arnold Bar. von Vietinghoff
his father → Reinhold Johann Peter von Vietinghoff
his father → Augusta Christiane Isabella Elisabet von Vietinghoff
his mother → Christina Sophie von Rosen
her mother → Johann Gustav von Rosen, a. Kiekel
her father → Georg Gustav von Rosen
his father → Elisabeth Freiin von Khevenhüller
his mother → Freiin Regina Catharina Baroness von Windisch-Grätz
her mother → Andreas von Windisch-Graetz
her father → Erasmus II Windisch-Graetz
his father → Christoph I Windisch-Graetz
his father → Walburga von Gutenstein
his mother → Sidonie von Ortenburg
her mother → Heinrich V. von Ortenburg
her father → Georg I. von Ortenburg
his father → Heinrich III von Ortenburg
his father → Rapoto IV, Graf von Ortenburg
his father → Heinrich I von Ortenburg
his father → Elisabeth von Sulzbach
his mother → Mathilde von Bayern
her mother → Wulfhilda of Saxony
her mother → Magnus Billung, of Saxony
her father → Ulfhild van Sarpsbergen van Noorwegen
his mother → Saint Olaf II, King of Norway
her father → Harald Grenske
his father

Harald Grenske MP
Norwegian: Harald Grenske, Underkonge i Grenland
Gender: Male
Birth:before circa 950;Grenland, Telemark, Norway
Death:995;Immediate Family:
Husband of Åsta Gudbrandsdóttir, Queen of Norway
Father of Saint Olaf II, King of Norway
Added by: Eileen Hauge Kjellsen on 11 April 2007
Managed by:Torsten Cargnelli and 126 others
Curated by:Bjørn P. Brox

Then Jarl Hákon went to see the king of the Danes and settled with him easily for the killing of his kinsman Gull-Haraldr.

After that King Haraldr took out to sea an army from all over his kingdom and went with six hundred ships.

There with him then were Jarl Hákon and King Guðrøðr’s son Haraldr grenski and many others
of the ruling class who had fled their patrimonies in Norway because of Gunnhildr’s sons.

The king of the Danes sailed his fleet from the south into the Vík, and all the people of the country submitted to him. And when he came to Túnsberg, large numbers thronged to him. And King Haraldr handed over all the forces that had come to him in Norway to Jarl Hákon and gave
him to administer Rogaland and Hǫrðaland, Sogn, Firðafylki, Sunn-Mœrr and Raumsdalr and Norð-Mœrr—these seven districts King Haraldr gave to Jarl Hákon to administer on the same terms as Haraldr inn hárfagri had given them to his sons, with this difference, that Hákon was also to possess there and also in Þrándheimr all the royal residences and land dues. He was
also to use the royal treasury whenever he needed it if there was an invading army in the country.

King Haraldr gave Haraldr grenski Vingulmǫrk, Vestfold and Agðir as far as Líðandisnes, and the title of king, and let him have rule there in every way the same as in times past his kinsmen had had and Haraldr inn hárfagri had given his sons.

Haraldr grenski was then eighteen years old and afterwards became a renowned man. Then King Haraldr of the Danes goes home with the whole army of Danes.

Snorri Sturluson "HEIMSKRINGLA VOLUME I THE BEGINNINGS TO ÓLÁFR TRYGGVASO" (Chapter 15, page 147)

http://www.vsnrweb-publications.org.uk/Heimskringla%20I.pdf

Gudrød Bjørnsson

Debra that’s correct the issue here is the disconnect of Harald Grenske from Gudrød Bjørnsson, thus leading back to Harald Finehair through his son Bjørn.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORWAY.htm

Gudrød Bjørnsson is my second cousin 29 times removed.

Gudröd Bjornsson had one child:

a) HARALD "Grenske" ([947]-murdered 995).

And yet, more than two years later, still wrong here.

Why was this ignored?

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORWAY.htm

Gudröd Bjornsson had one child:

a) HARALD "Grenske" ([947]-murdered 995). The Historia Norwegie names "Haroldum Grensca" as son of "Gudrodus", commenting that he acquired his nickname from having been brought up "in Grenlandia"

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORWAY.htm#_ftnref240

So you're saying that the technicality of whether or not he actually at any time ruled a hotly disputed territory, Vestfold, causes you to doubt that he was the son of Gudrød Bjørnsson ?

Or are you saying that a petty king of Vestfold could not have come from a line of Norwegian kings?

Kings ruling some or all of Vestfold:

Halfdan the Black, 9th century king of Vestfold. His brother was long believed to be buried at the Gokstad Mound.
Erik Agnarsson
Halfdan Hvitbeinn (part of Vestfold)
Eystein Halfdansson
Halfdan the Mild
Gudrød the Hunter
Halfdan the Black, together with his brother, Olaf Gudrødsson
Ragnvald the Mountain-High, Cousin of Harold Fairhair
Harald Fairhair
Bjørn Farmann
Olaf Haraldsson Geirstadalf, brother of Bjørn
Harald Gudrødsson Grenske, 976–987

I haven't found any sources disputing his rule of Vestfold, although he is described as a "petty" king. And obviously they fought with the Danes over it for a long time.

When the sons of Gunnhild had been banished, Harald Grenske followed Haakon Sigurdsson who ruled Norway as a vassal of the Danish king Harald Bluetooth. Harald became the king of Vestfold and Agder. He married Åsta, the daughter of Gudbrand Kula.

Harald Grenske (10th century) was a petty king in Vestfold in Norway.

His widow, Åsta, promptly gave birth to a son, Olaf Haraldsson, later Olaf II of Norway and patron saint of the nation. Åsta subsequently remarried to Sigurd Syr, the king of Ringerike.

Åsta Gudbrandsdatter (c. 975/980 – c. 1020/1030) was the mother of two Norwegian kings, King Olaf II of Norway and King Harald III of Norway.

Contemporary historical genealogists apparently agree that King St. Olaf was the son of Grenske.

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olav_den_hellige

Likewise I understand that the old historians conflicted about the father of Grenske, however contemporary sources apparently agree that his father was Gudrød Bjørnsson

"Harald Grenske's father, Gudrød,"

"As a child, Harald is said to have been sent to be brought up by the "landman" Roe the white in Grenland, and thus to have been nicknamed "Grenske". Roe is only mentioned in texts belonging to Olavssagaen, and we know nothing more about him...The sagas tell that Harald Grenske became the Danish king Harald Blåtand's viceroy after the fall of Harald Gråfell, and that he was given dominion in Viken."

https://nbl.snl.no/Harald_Grenske

Private User I agree with much of what you're saying. My question is if there is not any contemporary sources regarding the biography of Harald Grenske and all that we have are sources such as Heimskringla, what is the harm in adding a curators not on his profile at lease linking his father? The curators note that is currently there already states how the sagas may not be the best sources to use but in this case it's all we have, and simply deleting his ancestry may not be the best solution to this problem..

Raymond Simula I agree, that sounds like the best way to handle it.

We could argue that Claus Krag of the University of Southeast Norway (among others) should be a fairly decent contemporary authoritative source and wouldn't have made such a statement without doing the appropriate research first. But I'm sure even he would agree that we have no primary sources for it.

That the 'story is based in quite a lot of fact does not defy logic, imho, as Remi has suggested.

Naturally I must defer to real scholars on such matters, but I don't see anything anywhere that could adequately refute it.