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Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots - Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots is my 17th G Grandmother

Started by Private User on Saturday, July 10, 2021
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Private User
7/10/2021 at 2:46 PM

Hello,

I love discovering more direct links and I believe another direct descendant of Kind David. I am also connected to her by blood as she is my 17th g grandmother on my maternal side and an in law relationship as my fifth great grandmother's husband's mother's husband's 6th great grandmother.

Does anyone have any great research topics or projects of interest I can look into?

Jacklyn Wahl
Laurie Vieau (MacFarlane)
7/10/2021 at 3:02 PM

I'm also a 17th Great GrandDaughter of Joan Beaufort

Also you might try searching on Geni Sir William Graham, Earl of Montrose he's my 14th GreatGrandfather. William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose
Laurie Vieau (MacFarlane)
7/10/2021 at 3:04 PM

By the way, we are 16th cousins twice removed :-)

Joni Danielle Sneed, BSN, RN PRO
7/10/2021 at 4:57 PM

Hello, 16th GG daughter here. Hello cousin!

Thierry Badoc PRO
7/10/2021 at 10:34 PM

Hello,
Greetings from Bordeaux (France)
I discover more and more links with England ans Scotland on my mother's side
Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots is your 7th cousin 16 times removed.
You
→ Muguette Andrée ROUGEULLE
your mother → Mary Yves Andre ROUGEULLE
her father → Anne Marie MICHEL
his mother → Marie Louise HIDRIO
her mother → Jean Marie HIDRIO
her father → Yves HIDRIO
his father → Gilles HIDRIO
his father → Jacques HIDRIO
his father → Vincente LE BASTARD
his mother → Pierre LE BASTARD
her father → Rolande Boisard
his mother → Jean BOUESSART
her father → Guillaume Bouessart
his father → Marye Bouessard
his mother → Jeanne Henry
her mother → Hervé de Quelen, Seigneur de Saint-Bihy, Launay-Balin, de La Lande et Kerlohou
her father → Guillaume de Quelen, Seigneur de Saint-Bihy et de La Lande
his father → Aliette du Vieux Chastel
his mother → Guillaume du Vieux Chastel
her father → Françoise de Léon
his mother → Alain de Léon de Lesquelen
her father → Marguerite De Châteauneuf, Dame de Chateauneuf-en-Thymerais
his mother → Éléonore de Dreux, Dame de Chateauneuf
her mother → Philippa de Dreux
her sister → Margaret of Bar, Countess of Luxembourg
her daughter → Phillipa, countess of Luxembourg
her daughter → Guillaume III, comte de Holland
her son → Philippa of Hainault, Queen consort of England
his daughter → John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, 1st Earl of Richmond
her son → John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset
his son → Joan Beaufort, Queen of Sco

Dawn Edwards
7/11/2021 at 7:41 PM

The Geni tree reports Hon. Margaret Hamilton as having 2 husbands. What became of the George Leeper Sr. who fathered a son with her? I have not been able to validate this relationship. can you help?

She would be my 11th great Grandmother if this is valid.

Thanks, Dawn
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
7/12/2021 at 1:04 AM

Dawn Edwards I don't think that connection is correct. It looks like someone made a mistake in the tree. Hon. Margaret Hamilton was the wife of William Douglas, 1st Marquis of Douglas who she married at the age of 15/16. She did not marry George Leiper, elder, Skinner in Glasgow I have removed the invalid connection from the tree.

Private User
7/12/2021 at 1:37 PM

my line was intercepted somehow and now it says my aunt. Can someone look into this as I don't have the same connections as I did yesterday and I'm curious as to what happened to the connections after the last edit my Tamas, I'm assuming.

Jacklyn R Wahl
You

→

Paula Kelley Hutchinson
your mother

→

Dora Leona"Kitty" Floyd
her mother

→

Eva Lena Foster
her mother

→

James Ander "Jim" Coffman
her father

→

Robert J Coffman
his father

→

Rhoda Ann Shelton
his mother

→

Rhoda Shelton
her mother

→

Henry Filmer (Philmore) Green
her father

→

Amey Williamson
his mother

→

Mary Clay
her mother

→

Elizabeth “Bettie” Mitchell
her mother

→

Andrew Innes
her father

→

Elizabeth Douglas, of Pittendreich
his mother

→

Elizabeth Sutherland of Duffus
her mother

→

Alexander Sutherland
her father

→

Elizabeth Stewart
his mother

→

John Stewart, 2nd Earl of Atholl
her father

→

Sir John Stewart, 1st Earl of Atholl
his father

→

Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots
his mother

Thanks,

Jacklyn Wahl
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
7/12/2021 at 3:02 PM

Dear Private User, My correction of the inaccuracy in Dawn Edward's ancestry should not have affected your connection to Joan Beaufort. When I check, I see you as her 17th great-grandaughter.

But, as Dawn's case has highlighted, we need to be very careful with these connections, as they can often contain numerous errors. In your case, your connection goes through the Scottish immigrant to Virginia, Elizabeth “Bettie” Mitchell who is currently listed as the daughter of Andrew Innes and through him granddaughter of Sir John Innes, of Cromey and Elizabeth Douglas, of Pittendreich

The evidence surrounding these generations is a bit lacking. From the citations on WikiTree, it seems family researchers are simply stringing together baptismal records with matching names without any proof they represent the same people. Scottish genealogy is often very tricky, especially this far back in the past, because of poor record-keeping during this period and the repetition of common Scottish names. Even if the marriage record identified for 26 Feb 1690 in Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland does refer to the Mitchells of Chesterfield County, VA, we still have the question if that Betty Innes is the same as Elizabeth Innes, daughter of Andrew Innes, baptized on 17 Mar 1673 in Tealing, Angus, Scotland. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Innes-120.

In addition, there seems to be no evidence to connect Andrew Innes as a child of John Innes and Elizabeth Douglas. See Andrew's wikitree page for various speculations: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Innes-1322

Ane Account of the Familie of Innes: With an Appendix of Charters and Notes (1698) by Duncan Forbes lists 5 children for John Innes and Elizabeth Douglas, and an Andrew is not included on that list, see page 202.
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
7/12/2021 at 3:16 PM

I just noticed that there seems to be some confusion in the Geni tree between Sir John Innes, of Cromey (who married Elizabeth Sinclair) and John Innes, of Leuchars (who was the husband of Elizabeth Douglas of Pittendreich).

Private User
7/12/2021 at 8:58 PM

Look at it again. It shows her as my aunt now. My lines are double connected at certain areas. But I will have to look into the Ines. I have them on my main family tree and My maternal side is the correct connection but now as she isn't my 17th grandmother on my mother's side now it is on my father's side as aunt. I have also have lines on both sides of my family, so there may be confusion their as well. As mentioned I will look into that later. But very possible the connection as well is correct.

I understand the importance of keeping lines straight and how much of a hassle it is if it isn't.

Jacklyn W.
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
7/13/2021 at 3:17 AM

Private User Sometimes Geni's relationship calculator can get a little confused, especially if there are multiple connections to a single person. I see you as her 17th great-granddaughter. At the top right of the relationship calculator area there is sometimes a little grey circle that you can click to refresh it.

I have cleaned up the confusion between the two different John Innes, but we still need to deal with the parentage of Andrew Innes There is no evidence to connect him to John Innes, of Leuchars and Elizabeth Douglas, of Pittendreich as he is not listed on existing pedigrees for that family and there seems to be no evidence to connect him as their son beyond wishful thinking.

I think something which family researchers do not realize is that during the early modern period very few of the families were documented. Noble families, like the ones John Innes and Elizabeth Douglas belonged to, are well documented in surviving genealogical pedigrees, but only represent a small, elite fraction of the people living in an area at the time. Just because an ancestor happens to share a last name, does not imply that he must belong to that family. In light of the lack of evidence to support this connection, I would suggest that Andrew be removed as their son.

Laurie Vieau (MacFarlane)
7/13/2021 at 11:19 AM

Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland is also the aunt Joan Beaufort Queen of Scots. When I first noticed this it caused me some bit of confusion. You might want to double check, due to the same name of 2 people.
Laurie Vieau (MacFarlane)
7/13/2021 at 12:02 PM

I checked it out and Joan Beaufort is your 17th great grandmother:

Jacklyn W. is Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots' 17th great granddaughter.
Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots
→ Sir John Stewart, 1st Earl of Atholl
her son → John Stewart, 2nd Earl of Atholl
his son → Elizabeth Stewart
his daughter → Alexander Sutherland
her son → Elizabeth Sutherland of Duffus
his daughter → Elizabeth Douglas, of Pittendreich
her daughter → Andrew Innes
her son → Elizabeth “Bettie” Mitchell
his daughter → Mary Clay
her daughter → Amey Williamson
her daughter → Henry Filmer (Philmore) Green
her son → Rhoda Shelton
his daughter → Rhoda Ann Shelton
her daughter → Robert J Coffman
her son → James Ander "Jim" Coffman
his son → Eva Lena Foster
his daughter → Dora Leona"Kitty" Floyd
her daughter → <private> Hutchinson (Tigert)
her daughter → Jacklyn W.
her daughter

Does this look correct?

Private User
7/13/2021 at 12:44 PM

Laurie Vieau (MacFarlane)

Can you share that weblink showing connection, please?
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
7/13/2021 at 1:16 PM

Private User Here it is: https://www.geni.com/path/Jacklyn-W+is+related+to+Joan-Beaufort-Queen-of-Scots?from=6000000176526049855&path_type=blood&to=6000000000743955206

But if you have been following my comments in my previous messages, I would caution you against getting too attached to this particular path. There is no evidence to support it and I suggest that we cut it at Andrew Innes
Laurie Vieau (MacFarlane)
7/13/2021 at 2:00 PM

Private User

Hope the link works
Laurie Vieau (MacFarlane)
7/13/2021 at 2:04 PM

https://www.geni.com/path/Joan-Beaufort-Queen-of-Scots+is+related+t...

The first link was I think this will work better than my first try.

Private User
7/13/2021 at 3:30 PM

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert

My tree is accurate, please don't cut my tree. I'm not sure what you mean by cut at Andrew Innes?

I have it figured out now with the multiple connections as my family.I'm not sure if you saw that post? This is accurate and proof is in profiles.

Thank you,

Jacklyn Wahl

Private User
7/13/2021 at 3:32 PM

Thank you Laurie Vieau (MacFarlane). Yes, that is what I have.

Private User
7/13/2021 at 4:53 PM

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert I see how we are related now. On my fathers side. As you know we have a rich history. If you have any family stories I would love for you to share.

Does this look accurate to you? This is the shortest in law relationship to me no blood connections.

Jacklyn Wahl
You

→

Jackie Ray Davis
your father

→

Mary Francis Steudeman
his mother

→

Wanda M Luttrell
her mother

→

Clara Belle Luttrell
her mother

→

Thomas Cory Watterson
her father

→

Henry F. Watterson, Sr
his father

→

Mary Watterson
his mother

→

Sergeant Peter Stephens, Jr.
her father

→

Major Lewis "Ludwig" Stephens, Sr
his brother

→

Peter Stephens
his son

→

Barbara Stephens
his wife

→

Robert Wilson
her brother

→

Vance J Wilson
his son

→

Robert Wilson
his son

→

Jeremiah Morgan Wilson
his son

→

Charles Eugene Wilson
his son

→

Wyman Robert Wilson
his son

→

Marcia Helen Wilson-Glasser
his daughter

→

Robert Gene Glasser
her husband

→

Jacqueline Gilbert
his sister

→

Harlan Wayne Gilbert
her son

→

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert
his son
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
7/14/2021 at 2:00 AM

RE: "My tree is accurate, please don't cut my tree."

As I am sure you are aware, Geni is a communal tree, in which information is contributed by many users. If you had read my previous comments, you would see that there are some important issues about the parentage of Andrew Innes. There is no evidence that I can find to support the parents currently attached to him, and even evidence against him being their son from Ane Account of the Familie of Innes: With an Appendix of Charters and Notes (1698) by Duncan Forbes. Do you have any evidence to contribute here to vouch for the accuracy of Andrew Innes' parentage? What are you basing your claim to an accurate tree on?
Susanne Floyd - on and off the grid PRO
7/14/2021 at 5:21 AM

Private User, nice to meet you 12th cousin!

As to Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert's point about the communal tree:

1. Because the tree is communal, sometimes bad merges can take place and cause lines to appear "correct" when if sourced properly they are not.

2. Most of us here are really trying to source unsourced profiles. I rarely get this far back into the tree, but appreciate those with the knowledge of the time periods and the research expertise and access to get it straight.

3. What I do try to do to help is "follow" profiles in my current lines so when discussions come up like this I can see if I can contribute or I can know what is happening to get at the truth. Following also lets me monitor changes in the profile. Just a day or so ago, I found a profile from the 1500s with a newly attached wife that didn't match the sourced material from Medlands. Launching a discussion allowed Anne Brannen to fix it. I have also launched discussions that ensured I would be "cut off" due to the lack of sourcing or erroneous information.

It is the search for the truth that we want. My Uncle Elbert said I was kin to Pocahontas. Nah, but maybe one of her sisters, it looks like. I'll take that if we can ever lock it down. But until then, I am just writing down family stories and noting they are that.
Susanne Floyd - on and off the grid PRO
7/14/2021 at 5:26 AM

Edited to note - Uncle Elbert said we descended from Pocahontas. We may be kin to her after all, but not "descended," which is how a lot of errors are made in genealogy.

Private User
7/14/2021 at 7:13 AM

I just wanted to make sure that my personal tree not the big tree was going to be edited. Which happens all the time in the communal tree. I am documenting and cross referencing my findings to confirm accuracy as well.

I appreciate everyone's help. As mine was not altered as I thought. I was looking at multiple profiles that night and came across different connections to Scotland on my mom and dad's side which is pretty cool.

No worries, I'm glad we are all here to make the right connections. Because as we well know in genealogy we can come across other paths and lines that lead to the same person.

Jacklyn Wahl
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
7/16/2021 at 3:27 AM

I cut Andrew Innes from "parents" John and Elizabeth, and included a curator note stating that he is not a known son of John Innes and Elizabeth Douglas.

Private User, Since you have extensive Colonial American ancestry, you will most likely find many paths going back to royalty. It is just a matter of checking to make sure that those paths are accurate and are supported by quality sources so that we can all have connections we can be confident in and proud of.

After cutting the path through Andrew Innes, Geni has found a new one to Joan Beaufort through Henry Hollingsworth father of Delaware immigrant Valentine Hollingsworth, Sr

Once again, we run into a similar problem with this path.

From quaker records, we know that "Valentine Hollingsworth, son of Henry Hollingsworth of Bellenickcrannell, in the parish of Sego and County of Ardmagh and of Katheran his wife, was borne at Bellenickcranell, aforesaid, about the sixth month in the yeare 1632." Source: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hollingsworth-33#_note-Quaker_birth_r...

But, this is all that is known. He was from Bellenickcrannell and his parents were Katheran and Henry. All the rest of the information surrounding them, including his siblings, mother's maiden name (Cornish and Blacker seem to be the popular theories), birth and death dates, and his grandparents are either speculation or have just been made up. See here for some further discussion: https://wc.rootsweb.com/trees/226979/I2507/henry-hollingsworth/indi... https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hollingsworth-33 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hollingsworth-34
Hatte Blejer (absent until Nov 1) C
7/16/2021 at 3:43 PM

This project may interest you: https://www.geni.com/projects/New-England-Gateway-Ancestors-of-Proven-Royal-Descent/43693

There are similar projects for the South and Mid-Atlantic.

Many of the connections to British nobility for Colonial families that you see on the Internet are either unproven or disproven. It was the fashion in the late 19th century to write family histories connecting well known families to British nobility.

There are families, that do have noble ancestors. The book about the Plantagenets for example lists about 200 early Americans with Plantagenet ancestry: Plantagenet Ancestry, A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families.

Such as Obadiah Bruen and Frances Deighton, who are ancestors of mine.

Private User
7/22/2021 at 9:33 AM

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert ,no problem. I have re looked at the connection and have found more information regarding this line. No one is trying to falsify information, I just want it to be accurate as well. As mentioned I needed to go look at my other tree and see the connections you know sometimes others have the wrong connections and it attachments them to your tree. As did in geni made the same connection. Of course we want to be proud of our ancestry. So, that is why I always like to double check. I'm not perfect and the help on here is by far the best I have had when getting in touch with others with similar paths. So I have ancient DNA results and I'm not sure how to attach them to my tree when it is in the world tree. Do I need to build my tree out first then attach all of my documentation?

Hatte Blejer (absent until Nov 1) I appreciate that link and will look into it.

Private User
6/4/2022 at 2:21 AM

Can anyone please tell me where George Leiper, Skinner in Glasgow, fits into this discussion?

Private User
6/4/2022 at 10:08 AM

Private User you an read above in this conversation that Geni curator Tamás Caldwell-Gilber has written earlierto Dawn Edwards: "I don't think that connection is correct. It looks like someone made a mistake in the tree. Hon. Margaret Hamilton was the wife of William Douglas, 1st Marquis of Douglas who she married at the age of 15/16. She did not marry George Leiper I have removed the invalid connection from the tree."

It is easy to find word/name from page using Ctrl+F. Name George Leiper has been tagged into this discussion and that is why it shows here, as part of someones lineage.

Hope this helped,

Greetings Saga

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