Leonard Woodward Ward - father and Y DNa

Mark Mitchell <afblue01@yahoo.com>
To:JIm Ward
Thu, May 27 at 12:51 PM
n FTDNA's autosomal matches, I see that you and George (my FIL) share a match to his closest Y-dna match, Alan Lee Monday.  That might be another indication that at some point your Ward y-dna line becomes a Monday line.

Also share a match to a Ervin Lee Monday.  He doesn't have a family tree, but FTDNA says he's G-M201 so there's a very good chance he related via the y-dna line.

Depending on your interest and budget, it may worth your while to eventually do the 111 marker test and the BigY test at FTDNA.  They have sales throughout the year.  Next sale will probably be their Father's day sale.
On Thursday, May 27, 2021, 09:35:45 AM EDT, JIm Ward <jim.i.ward@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

typo Sprouse

On Thursday, May 27, 2021, 8:33:57 AM CDT, JIm Ward <jim.i.ward@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

It took about 70 grandparents added to Beverly Cotterman' branch  (autosomal 26 cM match) before I found a Munday (which could be close enough to Monday).
Sarah Munday Sprouse b1815 father was Burrell Munday b1176 whose father was Jonathan Munday b1757.
They all lived in Virginia, Sarah in western part of Virginia.

I'll search brothers to see if ant were spelled Monday.

I'll stop bugging you now.  I vaguely recall hearing from a Y DNA expert like you a couple of years ago, but can't find the messages.  Two of my paid subscriptions I have temporarily canceled to get gift discounts, so that could mess up message history.

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021, 11:45:56 PM CDT, JIm Ward <jim.i.ward@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Thanks for the great info on Y haploid subclades.

My Y haploid from livingDNA was a free throw in along with mtDNA for their autosomal test, and you usually get what you pay for.

Your info on Leonard's potential father is very interesting, and I will investigate it further,
My paternal line for quite a while was a brickwall (curiously my maternal line was also).

I came up with a potential father of Leonard based on a single  unsourced tree on ancestry.  I asked the tree's owner about it, and she said the info came from her uncle, but no further details.. 
The potential father (John Ward) was married in Ohio with children before and after Leonard. The potential mother only had a first name.  I figured his illegitimacy could have contributed to no documentation, along with Hamilton county formed in 1819 from Cherokee nation land. 

I started calling it 'semi-verified' when I identifed several ancestry.com DNA matches for Leonards's potential grandfather Edward's. legitimate children's descendants. 
3 of the matches were very small (6, 7, 9 cM) and one 26 cM.
Where I need to rethink my theory is expanding the 26 cM match (Beverly Cotterman).  I need to look for Mondays in her tree besides Ward.

Thanks for setting me straight.  I need to look further for Leonard's father.

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021, 9:12:52 PM CDT, Mark Mitchell <afblue01@yahoo.com> wrote:

Wed, May 26 at 9:12 PM

Hi Jim,

Looked at your tree on FTDNA.  George Leonard Ward Jr is your 3rd cousin and my father-in-law.  He isn't really into the genetic genealogy hobby like me, but I can tell you what I know.

George is son of George Leonard Ward Sr (1929-2008), son of James Gober Ward (1894-1939), son of Leonard Woodward Ward Jr (1852-1929), son of Leonard Woodward Ward Sr (1813-1890).  So you 2 share 2 great grandparents (Leonard Woodward Ward Sr & Malvina Hill).

I have learned from y-dna testing this line at some point appears to goes back to  the surname Monday in Eastern Tennessee.  But I'm not sure how.  Maybe Leonard Woodward Ward Sr's father was a Monday.

I have exchanged emails with an Alan Monday (my FIL's closest 111 market STR test match at FTDNA) who shared:

 "Samuel Monday (1787-1868) had 2 children with his wife Sarah Smith. In addition he was cited for Bastardy in Knox County and had a son out of wedlock with Isabella Hawthorn in 1818. The boy, William N. Alexander Hawthorn (1818-1902) moved to Alabama with his mother and stepfather and lived at various periods of his life in Alabama, California, Iowa and Kansas. 

So maybe this Samuel Monday was the father of your GG grandfather Leonard Woodward Ward.  He's the right age (~25 year old at the time of conception in 1812), and in the same general area that Leonard W. Ward was born (eastern Tennesee)

Alan Lee Monday has a 111 marker match with a genetic distance (GD)=1 with my FIL.  As I mentioned, he is my FIL closest match.  

George hasn't done SNP testing so he shows up as generic G-M201.  But his closest match, Alan Lee Monday, is G-BY181157, so George is in all likelihood positive for this SNP too.

The path from M201 to BY181157 would be M201>L89>L156>P15>L1259>L30>L141>P303>L140>PF3346>PF3345>CTS342>L497>CTS9737>Z1817>Z727>CTS2230>Z726>CTS4803>S2808>BY46757>S23438>FT285825>Z30790>Z30791>BY181157.

Your path is    M201>L89>L156>P15>L1259>L30>L141>P303>L140>PF3346>PF3345>CTS342>L497>CTS9737>Z1817>Z727>CTS2230>Z726>CTS4803>S2808

So it's all the same until your line stops at S2808.  All that means is that Living DNA's test chip doesn't have the ability to get lower than S2808 or it didn't get any reads or had ambiguous reads below this point.  

If you were to SNP test at FTDNA, odds are that you too are BY181157 like George's closest match, Alan Monday (and probably George too).

In fact you may form a new branch with George below BY181157.

In case your are interested in further testing at FTDNA, I used to be a FTDNA project admin (volunteer, not an employee), so I know a little bit about the SNP and STR testing at FTDNA.

Let me know if I can be of more assistance,

Mark M.

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021, 07:44:42 PM EDT, JIm Ward <jim.i.ward@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

FTDNA shows that we are 2nd or 3rd cousins (153 cm).

FTDNA also says earliest ancestor is descended from Leonard Ward B 1813, but I don't know how it determined that.since it lists no relatives for you.  I am new to DTDNA, as I just discovered this year I could get a free account.

Could you please provide names of father or grandfather or father, so I can locate them on my tree.  I don't do many living relatives on my various trees, so I didn't drill down to you.

FTDNA shows your Y DNA halogroup is M206 while mine is G2a, subclade G-S2808.per LivingDNA.which is surprising.