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Captain John Gibson Bryan, I - 2Y haplos, Consistency check:

Started by Cynthia Curtis, A183502, US7875087 on Wednesday, March 24, 2021
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Consistency Check:Mary Jane Orton born before the birth of her father Captain John Gibson Bryan, I.Mary Jane Orton born before the birth of her mother Sarah Frances Battle.Matthew Bucie Bryan born after the death of his father Captain John Gibson Bryan, I.Elizabeth Frances Bryan is over 55 years old for the birth of her child Matthew Bucie Bryan.
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Captain John Gibson Bryan, I

I removed the extra set of parents. The father had a same name but the mother was different.

The DAR only lists Frances ‘Elizabeth’ McMahan as the wife of Capt. John. If you notice both wives are MPd, but it seems no information at all is on the profile for Sarah Battle. Interesting that Sarah Frances and Elizabeth Frances died on the same day, were married to the same man and have MP status. That is a little weird for the times. I think something is wrong. (May be an understatement.)

Susanne Floyd they may be the same person

Dan Cornett please check?

Sarah and Elizabeth also have the same parents.

The Bryan trees are all a mess. Good luck! Too many brothers with large families. All have at John's, Thomas's, Needham's, Joseph's, Morgan's, etc.

As I recall from some earlier research down the Bryan/Bryant rabbit hole is that there are two John B.s and one may have a wife named Sarah and the other a wife named Elizabeth. I’m in a college basement with 6 faculty and 80 coeds waiting out a tornado warning. I think I can find my notes tonight when I get home.

Ok, here is another one Col. John Bryan, Sr.

and his wife Elizabeth Bryan.

Both MPd, but I think there are more.....

I have been hunting for the parents of my Mary Elizabeth Minshew and gone down many of the Bryan black holes.

I have 4 John Bryan's in my tree (including the two that Susanne mentions), but they are descendants of William Smith Bryan, who was deported to America by Cromwell in the early 1600's. Captain John Gibson Bryan is the son of Captain Morgan Bryan, who came to America from Denmark in the late 1600's. That's a different Bryan tree.

I've been down the Morgan Bryan hole too and it wasn't easy chasing that one as he was linked with Mary Elizabeth Minshew too (probably erroneously). I only mentioned the one Col. John Bryan, Sr. in regards to being a possible source of confusion for the Capt. John Gibson Bryan mentioned here, but I do know there are many others.

Something isn't right in Denmark - no, sorry, North Carolina with John Gibson Bryan's wives. Need a curator, I think.

There are now three Y-haplos on this profile of John Bryan, Sr. Some major things wrong.

1. What is the source for middle name "Gibson"? It's odd to have one that far back in time, but DAR does not note his middle name.

2. The only wife noted on DAR records is Elizabeth. Not Sarah.
Sarah is mentioned in the will of another John Bryan who died after 1797 and was not killed by Tories. This will is noted on his profile on Wikitree here:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bryan-109

It names sons Samuel, John who is deceased, James' mail heirs so he must be deceased, granson - John, and daughters Jean Orton, Jinnet Ortan, Elizabeth Davis, Serah Allen, Merey Huey and Margere Allen.

So that sorts one John Bryan and Sarah unknown Bryan.

It is also believed that his two deceased sons were Tories who died in the Revolution. I am not convinced that this John married to Sarah is supposed to be attached to Morgan Bryan and his wife as father on wiki and have contacted the profile manager there.
_____________________________________

Notable Southern Families, Volume II [database on-line]. Page 36-37

Describes his wife as FRANCES Battle.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/271731:48262

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/271731:48262

I’ll upload to profile.

This, I think, is the other John Bryan (not the captain).

BRYAN FAMILY HISTORY
DESCENDANTS OF
JOHN AND SARAH BRYAN
OF ROWAN COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA SAMUEL AND MARGARET BRYAN
OF DAVIDSON COUNTY, TENNESSEE SAMUEL AND CHARLOTTE BRYAN OF MAURY COUNTY, TENNESSEE FINUS AND CALEDONIA BRYAN
OF HILL COUNTY, TEXAS
BY
ROBERT BROOKS CASEY AND
BERNICE (BROOKS) CASEY
2004

http://www.rcasey.net/acrobat/bryphoto0305a.pdf

This publication focuses on the descendants of the author’s oldest proven Bryan ancestor, John Bryan (1) of Rowan County, North Carolina. It is believed by this author that there is a high probability that John is the son of Morgan Bryan and Martha (Strode) Bryan. However, definitive proof is still lacking and inclusion the children of Morgan Bryan is beyond the scope on this publication.

Ah ha! Critique “Notable Southern Families”

Page 8-12

The book, “Carolina Cradle,” by Robert W. Ramsey, 1964, provides a well documented sketch of Morgan Bryan, however, it does not include any information on Morgan’s son, John Bryan or his family. Another widely available book “Notable Southern Families” by Zella Armstrong, 1974, introduces a major error on John Bryan and his family. It states that John Bryan married Frances Battle and that John was a Captain in the Revolution who was killed at his own door by Colonel Fanning. This John Bryan died many miles away from where Morgan Bryan and his children lived while John Bryan (1), believed to be Morgan’s son, lived nearby.

The will of John Bryan was signed in 1797 and probated in 1801. This will clearly establishes that the wife of John Bryan was named Sarah. Land associated with this will clearly establish that this was the will of the John Bryan who lived on or near Bear Creek and Dutchman’s Creek (this is approximately eight miles southwest from where Morgan Bryan last lived). Also, several children of John Bryan (1) are known to resided in this same area. To date, this author has never seen any primary documentation that links John and Frances Bryan (or any of their known children) to the area around where Morgan Bryan last lived.

Page 8-14

Acording to the 1797 will of John Bryan (1), John Bryan married a woman whose first name was Sarah. According to Ruth Cooper, John Bryan married Sarah Hobby. Originally this marriage was thought to be based on family legend but it is now believed that this connection was derived from a marriage record of Edgecombe County, North Carolina where a John Bryan married a Sarah Hobby on July 1, 1766. The authors now believe this marriage to be extremely speculative in nature. Even if this marriage was John Bryan (1) and Sarah Bryan, Sarah would probably not be the mother of any of John Bryan’s children as most of them (if not all) appear to be born prior 1766 (the date of marriage between John Bryan and Sarah Hobby of Edgecombe County, North Carolina). Additionally, it is believed that John Bryan (1) lived in south central part of Yadkin County, North Carolina in 1766. In 1766, the western most boundary of Edgecombe County, North (which was a much larger county then) consisted the western most boundary of present day Nash County, North Carolina. These two counties are substantially far apart which further discounts the validity of this connection.

The will indicates that John and Sarah Bryan were the parents of three sons and six daughters (the following birthdates of the below listed children are rough approximations derived primarily from marriage dates, land transactions, estate papers and one tombstone):

. . . Samuel Bryan (2), b. mid 1750’s
. . . James Bryan (1.2), b. 1760’s
. . . John Bryan, Jr. (1.3), b. mid 1750’s . . . Jane Bryan (1.4), b. early 1750’s
. . . Jannet Bryan (1.5), b. late 1750’s
. . . Elizabeth Bryan (1.6), b. late 1760’s . . . Sarah Bryan (1.7)
. . . Mary Bryan (1.8), b. early 1760’s
. . . Margaret Bryan (1.9), b. ca. 1768

So.

  • 2 or 3 different John Bryan’s.
    • John, son of Morgan, married Sarah, moved to Rowan County.
      • Sarah’s maiden name is not noted in source. Not Sarah Hobby of Nash County.
    • John, son of ?, the captain, married Frances Battle
    • John, if he existed, son of ?, married Sarah Hobby of Nash County.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bryan-109 It names sons Samuel, John who is deceased, James' mail heirs so he must be deceased, granson - John, and daughters Jean Orton, Jinnet Ortan, Elizabeth Davis, Serah Allen, Merey Huey and Margere Allen. So that sorts one John Bryan and Sarah unknown Bryan.

That’s this group http://www.rcasey.net/acrobat/bryphoto0305a.pdf and the children attached to Sarah Battle

I think that I am descended from one of these, but still working through them. Thanks for finding what you did, Erica Howton. Wikitree, which is usually pretty good, is in need of help and if we get this sorted, it will be nice to see what we can do from there.

There’s also this fellow extracted, who looks to have settled in Pennsylvania.

John Bryan, of Ireland

The Wikitree is in bad shape. We’ll be able to whip geni shortly.

Here’s the John Bryan, of Edgefield County who married Sarah Bryan

John Bryan, of Edgefield County appears to be attached to the "Sarah Hobby" mentioned in other profiles.

I just cleaned up the profile for Morgan Bryan

Clues from NCPedia about identifying which was his son John:

https://www.ncpedia.org/biography/bryan-morgan

John, who is believed to have lost two Tory sons during the Revolution, farmed his land in the Bryan Settlements throughout his life. He died there in the winter of 1799–1800.

I Intend to look here next:

Bryan, E. (1942). BRYAN, A PIONEER FAMILY. Register of Kentucky State Historical Society, 40(132), 318–322. http://www.jstor.org/stable/23372207

But I have to say. So far I am finding John who married Sarah a more likely son based on geography than Capt. John. Can we nail down where both Johns’s were born & died?

So does this one stay attached to Morgan and Martha Strode Bryan? John Bryan, Sr.

He is death is in Rowan Co. NC according to DAR records. But the DAR does not give a birthplace. Curious where that birthplace came from on FAG.

DAR records on Capt. John are here

https://services.dar.org/Public/DAR_Research/search_adb/?action=ful...

So let’s go with DAR dates, unknown birth location, Rowan NC death.

I do not think Capt John was the son of Morgan. If you read the NCPedia article on Morgan, his children stuck together, geographically and family wise. I don’t see that with this John’s descent.

Are you OK with a disconnect?

I see where the Gibson came from now.

Look at https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000199372775834 top of the second page (page 37)

6 John Gilson, married Pollie Morris.

He’s actually the sixth child of Lewis Bryan and Elizabeth White, the only child of Capt. John listed by Zella Armstrong, although she says he had a large family.

Gilson = > Gibson in poorly printed pages / Gedcom uploads ….

There are actually a bunch of John Bryans from NC. Not sure if this helps, but here they are according to the DAR. There is also a DAR document that explains the multiple men named John Bryan, but I can't access it.

BRYAN, JOHN Ancestor #: A131881
Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): PATRIOTIC SERVICE
Birth: CIRCA 1728
Death: ANTE 11- -1800 ROWAN CO NORTH CAROLINA
Service Source: PRUITT, ABSTRACTS OF LAND ENTRIES, ROWAN CO, NC 1778-1795, P 27
Service Description: 1) TOOK OATH OF ALLEGIANCE TO MAKE LAND ENTRY, ROWAN CO, 1779

Spouse: Sarah X.
Son Samuel m. Sarah X.

_________________________________

BRYAN, JOHN Ancestor #: A016248
Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): CAPTAIN
Birth: 4-9-1730
Death: 3-12-1782 ROWAN CO NORTH CAROLINA
Service Source: HEITMAN, HIST REG OF OFFICERS OF THE CONT ARMY DURING THE WAR OF THE REV, P 128
Service Description: 1) MILITIA, KILLED AT HOME BY TORIES

Spouse: Elizabeth Frances Battle

Children:
John m. Sarah Elizabeth Bucie
Sarah Elizabeth m. William Howard

___________________________________

BRYAN, JOHN Ancestor #: A016249
Notice: DATA IN THE CORRECTION FILE (WHY?)
Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): CIVIL SERVICE, PATRIOTIC SERVICE
Birth: 1734 NORTH CAROLINA
Death: 7- -1792 JONES CO NORTH CAROLINA
Service Source: NC REV WAR PAY VOUCHERS, #394, ROLL S.115.74; SAUNDERS, COL RECS OF NC, V10, PP500, 502, 523, 913, 915; CLARK, ST RECS OF NC, V24, P226; HAUN, CRAVEN CO CT MINS, BK7, #405; HAUN, NEW BERN DIST, SUP CT MINS, BK1, #171-2; GWYNN, ABS RECS OFJONES CO, V1, P1
Service Description: 1) DELEGATE TO PROVINCIAL CONGRESS, CRAVEN CO; JUSTICE OF CRAVEN CO, 1777; APPOINTED COMMISSIONER TO ESTABLISH COUNTY SEAT; TOOK OATH OF ALLEGIANCE TO MAKE LAND ENTRY, JONES CO, 26 MAR 1779; JUSTICE OF JONES CO, 1779, 1780; PAID FOR SERVICES RENDERED

Spouses:
1. Rebecca Martin
2. Mary X

Children:

John Hill m. Elizabeth Harrison
Edward m. Susannah Blackshear
Joseph m. Susan Harget
Penelope m. James Mumford
X m. Richard Grist

Comments:
1) SEE DATACF FOR EXPLANATION OF SERVICE OF MULITPLE MEN OF THIS NAME. 3/2010

__________________________________

BRYAN, JOHN Ancestor #: A016250
Notice: DATA IN THE CORRECTION FILE (WHY?)
Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): CIVIL SERVICE, PATRIOTIC SERVICE, COLONEL
Birth: CIRCA 1730 CRAVEN PCT NORTH CAROLINA
Death: ANTE 12- -1781 CRAVEN CO NORTH CAROLINA
Service Source: SAUNDERS, COL RECS OF NC, VOL 10, PP 206, 287, 530; CLARK, STATE RECS OF NC, VOL 11, P 710; NC REV WAR PAY VOUCHERS #279, ROLL #S.115.72; HAUN, CRAVEN CO COURT MINS, BK 7, #324, 383, 405, 436, 446, 453-455, 465; BK 8, #117
Service Description: 1) COL OF CRAVEN CO MILITIA, 1775-1776; ALSO LCOL, COL JOSEPH LEECH, 1775;
2) SHERIFF, 1775, 1777-79, 1781; COUNTY TREASURER, 1778, 1781; TOOK OATH OF ALLEGIANCE, 1779

Spouse - Elizabeth Oliver

Children:
James m. Rachel Herritage
William m. Olive Croom

_____________________________________

BRYAN, JOHN Ancestor #: A016251
Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): PRIVATE
Birth: CIRCA 1762 NORTH CAROLINA
Death: 12-26-1822 DUPLIN CO NORTH CAROLINA
Pension Number: S*W9747
Service Description: 1) CAPT.ROBERT RAIFORD

Spouse: Margaret Thalley

Children:
Andrew m. Mary Bradshaw

_________________________________

BRYAN, JOHN Ancestor #: A016258
Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): CIVIL SERVICE, PATRIOTIC SERVICE, QUARTERMASTER
Birth: 1-3-1742
Death: 3-14-1807 NEW BERN NORTH CAROLINA
Service Description: 1) QM CONTINENTAL LINE SUPPLIED PROVISIONS
2) COMMISSIONER OF SUPPLIES

Spouses 1. Ann X and 2. Mary/ Ann Fulford

Children:

Mary m. Nathan Tisdale

_________________________________

BRYAN, JOHN Ancestor #: A131881
Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): PATRIOTIC SERVICE
Birth: CIRCA 1728
Death: ANTE 11- -1800 ROWAN CO NORTH CAROLINA
Service Source: PRUITT, ABSTRACTS OF LAND ENTRIES, ROWAN CO, NC 1778-1795, P 27
Service Description: 1) TOOK OATH OF ALLEGIANCE TO MAKE LAND ENTRY, ROWAN CO, 1779

Wife: Sarah X

Children:
Samuel m. Margaret Steel

__________________________________

BRYAN, JOHN HILL Ancestor #: A016259
Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): PRIVATE
Birth: 9-30-1761 NORTH CAROLINA
Death: 1826 THOMAS CO GEORGIA
Service Description: 1) CAPT.MCREE, 10TH REGT. NC LINE

Spouse: Elizabeth Harrison

Children:

Anne Penelope m. John Coffee
Hardy m. Maria Wyche

I am fine with a disconnect of Capt. John's parents. Seems they are not Morgan and Martha. I think the other John MAY be.

Or at least one of the Johns may be...

I think the argument made at http://www.rcasey.net/acrobat/bryphoto0305a.pdf is comprehensive and compelling, I’ll work on that Family children next, John Bryan, Sr. is done.

The DAR list for this discussion is very helpful, thank you so much.

This looks good actually:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Battle-14

Biography

Marriages

John Bryan about 1765 in North Carolina (need source to confirm actual date)
John McMahan on 29 March 1787 in Rowan, North Carolina[1][2]
Children

John and Elizabeth Bryan Children List, from FGS compiled after 1980 by MS Thacker, 557 Dorado Dr, Fairbourn OH 45324.

Hannah BRYAN b: 17 Oct 1766 in Rowan Co NC, d 2 Dec 1816; m 1 Sep 1783 James Wilson
James BRYAN b: 1769
Mary Nancy BRYAN b: 1 Aug 1771, d 14 Sep 1818; m 18 Aug 1786 David Hampton
Sarah Elizabeth BRYAN b: 18 Sep 1774 in Rowan Co NC, d 22 Nov 1854; m 11 Sep 1794 William Howard
Lewis BRYAN b: 1776 in Rowan Co NC; m 1796 Elizabeth White
Battle BRYAN b: 1778, d 1811; m Elizabeth (--?--)
John BRYAN b: 7 Mar 1780 in Rowan Co NC, d 28 Oct 1854; m 16 Mar 1803 Sarah Elizabeth Bucie.
Burial

Elizabeth's burial location is unknown. John McMahan and Elizabeth might be buried in Whitaker Cemetery in Davie County, NC. Only some of the stones are still intact and legible (not John and Elizabeth's). John's brother Samuel McMahan is there, with his wife Mary Bryan McMahan, daughter of Morgan Bryan, Jr. and Mary Forbis.[3] Note: John's burial location could also be Olive Branch Cemetery in Davie, North Carolina. A Find-A-Grave is linked to his possible headstone.[4]

Research Notes

Her parents are not Elisha Battle and Elizabeth Ruth Sumner. Those parents had an Elizabeth Ruth Battle, but she was married to Josiah Crudup Sr.

And

John Bryan, Administration Bond

Wills and estate papers (Rowan County), 1663-1978
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPGR-SRZ?i=1&cc=19...

https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/3/33/Bryan-80-1.jpg

Administrator Elizabeth Bryan.

Capt. John Bryan looks much better now. I think you are correct that the next one to work on is the John and Sarah line of Rowan. I will see if I can find anything on the others.

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LJTX-GK9

John Bryan (1727-1782) not son of Morgan Bryan and Martha Strode

This John Bryan has been conflated with John Bryan (1731-1800) with FS ID LT81-KV5. This John Bryan along with his wife Sarah Battle and children are not sourced. The correct John Bryan (1731-1800) does have sources and is the correct John Bryan per David C. McMurty's 2009 book Seven Sons and Two Daughters of Morgan Bryan

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