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Sir John Pympe - was his wife Philippa a Thornbury or a St. Leger?

Started by dale scott on Tuesday, January 19, 2021
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dale scott
1/19/2021 at 6:15 PM

The overview for John Pympe cites:
http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p2693.htm#... It states He married Philippe Thornbury, daughter of John Thornbury and Anne (Agnes), with Douglas Richardson given for citations.

http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1318.htm#... states John Pimpe married Philippa St. Leger, daughter of Ralph St. Leger, with Douglas Richardson given for citations.

http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/STLEGER.htm#Phillippa St. LEGER1 shows Phillippa St. Leger married John De Pympe No Sources

In Geni, the link to his wife Philippa Guildford goes to Philippa Guildford (St. Leger)

Checking Philippa in Wikitree, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Thornbury-48 there is an attempt to prove, "There was an error in the research of the Pympe family, the St. Leger family surname was given to Philippe Thornbury on a pedigree. This surname was added because the researcher was of 'the opinion' she was a St. Leger. There is ample proof that John Pympe was married to Philippe Thornbury, and that there wasn't a Philippe St. Leger" The basis for this is mainly from https://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/sites/default/files/archcant/196...
The writer of the article gives many citations, but I'm unable to confirm them.

What is the community opinion? Was his wife Philippa a Thornbury or a St. Leger?

Private User
1/19/2021 at 10:33 PM

I prefer to rely on the best documented and referenced account provided by Kent Archaeology. Conflicting information is included in his overview. He also has way too many wives. His birthdate is incorrect as well (should be July 20, 1417). Much of the confusion may be due to the presence of three generations of "John Pympe" following the patriarch, Reginald.

I would certainly add a picture of the pedigree chart given in the Archaeologia Cantiana you linked to here, "THE DESCENT OF THE MANOR OF EVEGATE IN SMEETH WITH SOME ACCOUNT OF ITS LORDS" by N. H. MACMIOHAEL.

If I were a manager of this profile (or simply felt more up to the task) I would try to clean it up.

John Thorneberry of Feversham was High Sheriff of Kent in 1445. His daughter, Philippa, was recently disconnected as a wife of the profile under discussion here.

John Thornbury, of Faversham

Philippa Thornbury

The Thornbury profile isn't well developed either (doesn't even mention his position in Kent society as High Sheriff).

Private User
1/20/2021 at 12:00 AM

A little bit about the High Sheriff Thornbury and his two sons, William and Richard.

https://archive.org/details/archaeologiacant11kent_0/page/28/mode/2...

Private User
1/20/2021 at 12:58 AM

Somewhat extensive background for the de Pympe family which was originally Anglo-Saxon. They were well-connected with the Scotts of Kent. Also with the Guilfords. Philippa is shown in this chart as wife of John Pympe, but without her parentage.

https://archive.org/details/memorialsoffamil00scot/page/170/mode/2u...

Private User
1/20/2021 at 1:17 AM

The younger John Pympe's will dated 1496 (included in the Scott book), naming wife Elizabeth Cheney evidently indicates some connection to the St. Leger family.

In it he identifies himself as, "John Pympe, Sonne of John Pympe, Sonne of John, Sonne of Reignolde, Sonne of Sr William Pympe, Knyght, that hadde to wiffe Elizabeth, the daughter of Richard Whethill, Leuetennte of the Castell of Genys (Guines, near Calais)."

https://archive.org/details/memorialsoffamil00scot/page/168/mode/2u...

Private User
1/20/2021 at 7:34 AM

The Pympe family is very well represented in English history and genealogy, even in the DAR.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=pympe&and%5B%5D=collection...

A Philippa Thornbury married a William Tyrrell of Beeches, not sure when.

https://archive.org/details/tyrellsofengland00brow/page/192/mode/2up

Here it appears the youngest John Pympe sued his own mother Philippa for his inheritance, after she married Guilford. So she was married to the second John, in all likelihood.

https://archive.org/details/pedigreesfromple00wrotrich/page/456/mod...

St. Leger pedigree.

https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/106237-the-...=

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