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Richard Barnes, of North Carolina - Confused

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Saturday, January 2, 2021
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I just in the past couple of days discovered these are direct lines for me. Greene's book Shawnee History states that Charity and Mary Barnes were sisters, stating both were daughters of Richard 'Shawnee' Barnes but doesn't state they had the same mother. It is also stated that the sisters both married Edward Vann.

So my question here is I'm seeing Richard 'Shawnee' Barnes connected here as father or Mary Barnes Vann but brother of Charity Barnes Vann. So, were Charity and Mary sisters, half-sisters, or was Charity Mary's aunt as is connected here?

This is pretty much all I've found to go by:

According to Don Greene in his book Shawnee Heritage I - Shawnee Genealogy and Family History, copyright: 2008, Edward Vann was 1/2 Cherokee-Metis born about 1720 and died in 1773. He was the son of John "Trader" Vann I (born 1690 - white) and a Cherokee Woman (born 1695). He was the brother of John "Trader" Vann II (born 1915). His first marriage was to Mary Barnes about 1737, and his second marriage was to Charity Barnes(Mary's sister) in about 1744. With Mary, he fathered Joseph Vann(1738), Jennie Vann(1740), JAmes Vann(1742) & Edward Ned Vann(1744). With Charity, he fathered Clement Vann(1744), Thomas Vann(1746), Avery Vann(1748), Edith Vann(1750) & Susana Vann(1752). page 295

Debbie, you need to be very careful about Don Greenes research...much of it has been proven to be false.

Yes, I thought I had seen that somewhere in the past and Erica Howton reminded me of it yesterday. So I don't know how much, if any, of what he wrote about Charity is factual and I can't find anything else about her.

Because Charity Barnes did not exist in this time and place.

Georgia Record[45]

Charity Vann, August 11, 1782, A "distressed refugee" with 1 child.”)

This is a wonderfully detailed study.

https://pioneersalongsoutherntrails.blogspot.com/2017/03/john-vann-...

And - I’m sorry, but I’ve been looking at Shawnee Heritage books for a dozen years.

I haven’t found “anything” accurate in them (maybe an exaggeration, but not by much).

As usual, Debbie, tell me what ancestor you’re tracking.

Debbie Gambrell - also, have patience.

We’ve started a Vann clean up (again).

They are the single most difficult Cherokee line I’ve encountered. So let us know which “child or grandchild’s is of Interest.

But I will not base any decisions on Shawnee Heritage.

Erica, I'm not currently researching anyone on these lines. My original post at the top of this thread was over a year ago and I've moved on. Tonight I was only responding to your posts about your Vann cleanup and the issue of the Charity (Barnes) Vann. And I basically concluded that we'll probably just have to agree to disagree on her unless better info comes to light to change my mind. I wrote at length about all that under her profile.

Debbie, why would you stick with something that has no evidence? We only know of one wife for that Edward Vann from records, and her name was Mary.

The Georgia “Charity Vann” in 1783 could be the reason for giving him a wife named Charity, or maybe not. :)

So there’s not actually anything to disagree on.

This Edward Vann was associated with Cherokee, and Cherokee researchers do not accept Greene’s work in their genealogies, I don’t think you’d go against closer family?

Erica, I explained in detail why I am not discrediting Charity and don't intend to get into it again. I got so upset with these lines being cut that I made a decision after my last post to just not engage in further discussions now or in the future on NA lines. Nothing I say makes any difference and I don't need to be getting this upset over it. I can have it like I believe is correct in my Ancestry tree regardless of what is on Geni. I'm going to be 74 tomorrow and I have health conditions that require me to try to avoid stress. There are many, many lines on Geni with errors - with multiples sets of parents, women with 30 kids, etc. and those get left alone, often even when I try to get the managers, etc. to help sort them out. If we wanted these lines changed, we could do it ourselves. I don't understand the need to cut lines on NA lines that the people related to them believe in the traditions about them, the DNA evidence that supports them, etc. and haven't asked for any 'help' with making changes to them. I know folks who have left Geni and stopped paying for Pro membership over this very kind of situation. I don't want to debate it. That's not what I come to Geni for. You have been extremely helpful to me and others on lines where help has been sought and I appreciate that very much. But I don't feel heard at all when we discuss the NA line cuts.

Debbie Gambrell - I’m sorry you feel this way. I take each profile as I encounter it; there is no agenda except the most accurate and sourced genealogy we can do. So the main thing I’ve done is source (and understand) Mary Barnes - did you look at that family? There’s no Charity in the group, so the references to her as a sister doesn’t work.

As for anything else about Charity, the only person who ever added references was me, if I recall correctly.

So I’m really unclear. There’s no paper record of Charity and “the tradition” (?) as Mary’s sister doesn’t pan out. Mary does not seem to have been Native American. There’s a deed signed by Mary and Edward Vann in 1757, and he may have been dead as soon as 1758. So where does Charity come from and how would she even fit it in?

(Tagging the profile)

Charity Vann

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