Ragnhildr Óláfsdóttir, of Man - Sources?

cf Olaf I "Morsel", King of Man & the Isles

Maybe, this issue should be directed to the initial persons that has contributed to his profile, and should fix it!

Why, let her cut, she does that a lot. It's something like a contest between some of them.
Anyway, she wasn't interested in any replies and if you look, she had already decided to cut before she posted this above, posting it as a courtesy I guess.

No, no cutting! There can be other sources.

" other sources " ?
Time to now add or find those other sources .
Should actually have been presented when profle was created.

I also agree with Kenneth Nader.
160 profile managers just for Olaf I ; why they not actively involved in finding sources.
If we put our names as managers we accept responsibility for that profile . Not just : Oo look at me I manage 5 million profiles. I f you have to many to manage abd to deal with maybe time to let others manage them.

Thanks Phillip.

Kenneth, this Discussion from the profile has that as its main function - to alert the managers.

Ulf, please don't start trolling and being personally insulting without any cause. It's bully behaviour.

Knut - we've been calling for sources in this area since 2016: See https://www.geni.com/discussions/152119?msg=1061626

Geni doesn't want a world tree that is a laughing stock because historically incorrect. Do you really want anybody to be able to add anything they like with impunity? This is the result of Curators not cutting off incorrect relationships.

Also probably useful to note that it's the incorrect relationship to a known profile being cut - not the profile itself.

Årtalen är lite suspekta, men om Óláfr blev kung 1102, så bör man beräkna att Ragnhild kan ha varit född inom de närmaste åren därefter, dvs, att hon gifte sig tidigare med Somerled, i sajten står det bara gift före 1140, men mellan åren 1144 - 1156 ville motståndarna göra Ragnhilds son Dubhgal MacSomarlidasson till kung över Man, så han bör ju ha varit född senast under tidigt 1130 tal och alltså ha varit minst 12 år före 1144, dvs, den ålder som räknas som en undre gräns då för när någon på egna ben kan göras till kung utan förmyndarskap.

Detta gör att modern Ragnhild troligen var född mellan åren 1110-1120. Därav följer att hennes moder definitivt har varit Óláfr's första fru, han gifte sig andra gången ca. 1130, med Affrica, dotter till Fergus av Galloway. I det senaste äktenskapet fick han sonen Godred, född ca. 1131, som är omtalad att 1142 besökt kungen i Norge.

Däremellan, åren 1120-1130, har Óláfr haft frillor, av vilka följande tre barn sägs vara frillosöner, Reginald, Lagman och Harold. Det står även att han hade flera döttrar.

Det mest troliga är att Ragnhild är barn av hans första fru. Óláfr Guðrøðarson har så vitt är känt endast haft två fruar, en dotter till Haakon Paulsson, Jarl av Norðreyjar (se länknedan) och Affraic, dotter till Fergus, Lord av Galloway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haakon_Paulsson#Later_years

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/manxsoc/msvol22/p044.htm#60

Source for this? It doesn't follow thatt he daughter of Olav who married Somerled, “King of the Isles” had Ingebjörg Hákonardóttir as her mother. Illegitimate children are often born to married men.

Årtalen är lite suspekta, men om Óláfr blev kung 1102, så bör man beräkna att Ragnhild kan ha varit född inom de närmaste åren därefter, dvs, att hon gifte sig tidigare med Somerled, i sajten står det bara gift före 1140, men mellan åren 1144 - 1156 ville motståndarna göra Ragnhilds son Dubhgal MacSomarlidasson till kung över Man, så han bör ju ha varit född senast under tidigt 1130 tal och alltså ha varit minst 12 år före 1144, dvs, den ålder som räknas som en undre gräns då för när någon på egna ben kan göras till kung utan förmyndarskap.

Detta gör att modern Ragnhild troligen var född mellan åren 1110-1120. Därav följer att hennes moder definitivt har varit Óláfr's första fru, han gifte sig andra gången ca. 1130, med Affrica, dotter till Fergus av Galloway. I det senaste äktenskapet fick han sonen Godred, född ca. 1131, som är omtalad att 1142 besökt kungen i Norge.

Däremellan, åren 1120-1130, har Óláfr haft frillor, av vilka följande tre barn sägs vara frillosöner, Reginald, Lagman och Harold. Det står även att han hade flera döttrar.

Det mest troliga är att Ragnhild är barn av hans första fru. Óláfr Guðrøðarson har så vitt är känt endast haft två fruar, en dotter till Haakon Paulsson, Jarl av Norðreyjar (se länknedan) och Affraic, dotter till Fergus, Lord av Galloway.

Please specify to what you are referring in these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haakon_Paulsson#Later_years

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/manxsoc/msvol22/p044.htm#60

"He had also many concubines, by whom he had issue three sons; Reginald, Lagman, and Harold, and many daughters, one of whom was married to Sumerled, Lord of Argyll"http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/manxsoc/msvol22/p044.htm#60

Ragnhildr Óláfsdóttir, of Man är en profil som nu har förstörts ganska ordentligt,

"The Chronicon Manniæ et Insularum records that “Olavus filius Godredi Crovan” had many concubines by whom he fathered “filios tres…Reignaldum, Lagmannum et Haraldum et filias multas”, adding that one daughter married “Sumerledo regulo Herergaildel" detta senaste "adding that one daughter married etc" är en hypotes, infogad som en tolkning men utan evidens. Ingebjörg Hákonardóttir står som född ca 1106, men det är en uppskattning utan bastant grund, årtalet förefaller ha varit satt utifrån faderns begynnande jarlskap på Orkney och inget annat. Därtill har man bytt ut modern Affrica till Gudrod the Black, King of Man & the North Isles med Ingeborg, "GODROD . His parentage is deduced from the Orkneyinga Saga which records that the mother of “Rognvald Godrodarson, King of the Hebrides” was “Ingibjorg, Earl Hakon Paulsson´s daughter".

"Kong Ragnvald Gudrødsson. Gudrøds moder var Ingeborg, en datter af Håkon Jarl Paulsson." 110. kapitel [o. 1200] Om orknøboerne, Orknøboernes saga (Ægidius).

Likväl, namnger Gudröd en dotter till Affrica, dvs, enligt detta hans styvmor, det förefaller vara så enkelt att man velat ge denna hans son kung Rangvald en annan farmoder än Affrica, hustrun nummer 2 i sammanhanget och bara plitat dit Ingeborg.

"He took a wife named Affrica, daughter of Fergus of Galloway, by whom he had issue Godred." Chronicle of Man and the Sudreys.

Det är mer än plausibelt att Ragnhild är barn av hans första fru, särskilt med tanke på att följande söner med frillor är omnämnda, Reginald, Lagman och Harold, därtill att ingen frillodotter är nämnd med namn.

I really don't know what you're trying to say with.

with this.

I, (we) Need a swedish curator to fix this vandalism. Unfortunately, I'm not a curator and no others knows what to do.

What vandalism?

Ulf, you need to make an actual point. If you don't know what or why you are posting this, then your motives for posting it are not obvious.

If you're trying to say that Ragnhildr is not necessarily the name of the illegitimate daughter who married Somerled, then Cawley agrees with you.

But this profile's managers are responsible for naming Somerled's wife as Ragnhildr - not I, and I wasn't going to mess with that without discussion.
It's certainly worth discussing, and I'm happy to facilitate - but I'm still only guessing that this is what you might be trying to say.

The other option is that you're dumping random quotes here for no other reason than that you've found them on a google search of the area, even though you don't know what they're saying. If you want to actively study the area, google translate is your friend, but you need to have them make some point as well.

If you're trying to argue that Gudrod the Black, King of Man & the North Isles's mother is in dispute - valid Discussion - why are you doing it here?

Start a discussion from his profile that cfs Afreca nic Fergus of Galloway. It's worthwhile having, but only if you are prepared to make the points that help decide how to reorganise the relationships.

Either way - this has nothing to do with this Discussion question.

Chronica Regum Manniæ et Insularum composed in mid 13th century
is written in a way that puts emphasis on Gofraid mac Amlaíb son of Amlaíb mac Gofraid/Óláfr Guðrøðarson and Affrica and neglects/is unaware of/biased against Somerled/Somairle mac Gilla Brigte and his wife Raghildr Olafsdatter/Ragnailt ingen Amlaí and their kin.

A pivot sentence in this context is: "...quae fuit causa ruinae totius regni ..."
translates as "...this was the cause of the ruin of the whole kingdom..."
A power struggle and the chronicler lays the guilt on something unjust.

Ragnhildr's/Ragnailt's descent gives the argument for Somerled/Somairle to the claimed kingship.

The Orkney Saga states expressly that Ingibjorg was married to King Olaf, she was hardly a concubine. Refer also Fagrskinna.

The marriage of Olafr/Aimlab first to Ingibjorg from the Orkney sphere and later to Affrica daughter of Fergus of Galloway is by many historians seen as a shift of focus in Olafr/Aimlamb's politics and need for alliance with another sphere of power.

All of the sources contains flaws/mistakes or biases. One can not use solely one of them. This has been a point of research by many historians. By just uncritically using one, say Chronicles of Man, we lose scientific grip.

Annals of Tigernach

Book of Ballymote

Orkney Saga

Fagrskinna

Manuscripts of Leecan

Chronicle of Holyrood,

Chronicle of Melrose,

Chronicles of Mann, Chronica Regum Manniæ et Insularum

Carmen de Morte Sumerledi

Re The Orkney Saga states expressly that Ingibjorg was married to King Olaf, she was hardly a concubine. Refer also Fagrskinna.

Yes - I think the question is whether we can validate
a) that the daughter who married somerled was called Ragnhildr.
b) that Ragnhildr was Ingeborg's daughter

Was that one of my posts ?? I usually check the sources listed at the end of an article...There is one other person whose profile is really messed up and I did not author it.. It is the ancient Ochiltree line originally from Renfrew.....I also had a NN ancestor who was raised by the king.....Michael Ochiltree was the illigetimate son of Robert or James )) someone,,,,no one will ante up, but if you run just a Wiki search for his name and Dean of Dunblane, it publishes his life but only unknown ...I read all the credit I can find for him, he is not published in just a few legal documents, He was referred as a minion of the king and leaning toward homosexual...He was the one who Administer the rights of king to the son of the king that was killed to the kings son of 7 years old and the coronation was at Holyrood House....