Alice (Deincourt) d'Arcy - Ancestry / dates

Comment from https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Eincourt-6

She can't possibly be the daughter of Ralph Deincourt and Basilie Unknown with the dates shown. Disconnected until/unless souces can be provided.

https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/dd/darcy01.php#top

Norman d'Arcy or de Areci of Nocton (Lincolnshire), etc. (a 1087, 1115)

The ancestry given for Norman is reported in various web sites. That none of the Main Sources used for this page suggested it makes it questionable.

1. Robert D'Arcy (a 1130)

TCP inserts an additional generation here, a Thomas. We provisionally follow BP1934 & BE1883 in showing Robert as father of …

A. Thomas D'Arcy (d 02.07.1180)

m. Alice D'Eincourt (d 1183, dau of Ralph D'Eincourt)

i. Thomas D'Arcy (b c1170, d 1206)

m. Joan widow of Thomas, presumed mother of …

a. Norman D'Arcy (a 1216, d by 10.1254?)

BE1883 does not name Norman's wife. Commoners (vol I, 'Delafield') identifies her as Elizabeth, dau of John de la Feld, but suggests that they married in 43Henry3 (1258/9) whilst TCP reports that his son took livery of his lands in 10.1254, as Norman had earlier been identified as "old and infirm". TCP identifies Norman's wife as …

m. Agnes

(1) Sir Philip D'Arcy of Nocton (d 1263)

m. Isabel Bertram (a 06.1281, dau of Sir Roger Bertram of Mitford, sister of Sir Roger of Mitford)

(A) Sir Norman D'Arcy of Nocton (b c1235, d 1296)

m1. Julia (d before 15.06.1281)

(i) Philip D'Arcy, 1st Lord D'Arcy of Nocton (d c1332)

(a) Norman D'Arcy, 2nd Lord D'Arcy of Nocton (d 31.03.1340)

m. Isabel (d 16.09.1350)

((1)) Philip D'Arcy, 3rd Lord D'Arcy (b c1331, dsp before 16.09.1350)

(b) Julian D'Arcy (d before 1350)

BE1883 shows that Julian married Sir Peter de Limberry but TCP reports that she married as follows.

m1. (spm) Philip de Neville of Scotton

m2. Sir John de Limbury (a 1336)

© Agnes or Anne D'Arcy (d before 13.09.1359)

m. Sir Roger de Pedwardine (d 10.02.1368/9 or 1340)

(d)+ other issue (dsp) – Robert, John

(ii) Robert D'Arcy of Great Sturton (or Stretton), Dunston and Stallingborough (d 1342/3)

m. Joan (dau of Thomas FitzEustace of Caswick & Woolshtorpe)

(a) Margaret D'Arcy

m. Sir John de Argentine, '3rd Lord' (b c04.1318, d 11.1382)

(iii) John D'Arcy of Coningsby Park

BE1883 suggests that this John was the John shown below as 1st Lord of Knayth. We follow TCP which reports the following.

m. Pernell

(a) John D'Arcy of Coningsby

((1)) John D'Arcy of Coningsby (d by 1359)

m. Alice

m2. (before 20.01.1292/3) Margery (a 02.1302)

(B) Sir Roger Darcy of Oldcotes and Styrrup (d before 12.05.1284)

BP1934 identifies Sir Roger as brother rather than uncle of Philip, 1st Lord of Nocton, but accepts that some sources identify Roger as Philip's uncle. We follow TCP (Darcy) in doing so.

m. Isabel D'Aton (dau of Sir William d'Aton of West Ayton, sister of Gilbert who dsp)

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Darcy-81

He was the fourth lord of the feudal barony of Nocton England.

In 1180 he was 18.

3rd lord of the feudal barony of Nocton in Lincolnshire.

Keats-Rohan reports that at his death his heir Thomas II was 8 and had two younger brothers and 4 younger sisters.

His wife was Alina or Alice, daughter of Ralf I de Aincourt.

—-

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm#_T...

a) RALPH de Aincourt (-1158 or before). m firstly BASILIE, daughter of ---. “Radulfus de Ayncourt” founded Thurgarton priory, Nottinghamshire, for the soul of “Basiliæ mulieris meæ”, by undated charter[12]. m secondly as her second husband, MATILDA, widow of RALPH FitzOdo, daughter of ---. The primary source which confirms her marriages has not yet been identified. Ralph & his first wife had [two] children:
i) WALTER [II] de Aincourt (-1168)
ii) [RALPH de Aincourt . The Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, records "Radulfus de Ainecurt iii milites" holding in "carta Walteri de Ainecurt" [ Somewhat uncertain]

No Aline or Alice that I can see.

Clay, J.W: Extinct Northern Peerages, page 39, https://archive.org/stream/extinctdormantpe00clay#page/39/mode/2up

http://thepeerage.com/p34237.htm#i342367

Alice d'Eyncourt was the daughter of Ralph d'Eyncourt.1 She married Thomas d'Arcy, son of Thomas d'Arcy.1 She died in 1183.1
Children of Alice d'Eyncourt and Thomas d'Arcy

Robert d'Arcy1
William d'Arcy1
Thomas d'Arcy+1 b. c 1168, d. c 1206
Citations

[S37] BP2003 volume 1, page 1026. See link for full details for this source. Hereinafter cited as. [S37]

http://knight-france.com/geneal/names/5338.htm with hesitation places her as daughter of the problematic Ralph ll.

http://cybergata.com/roots/9886.htm Has her further down.

Walter D'Aincurt was the son and heir of Ralph, who married Basilie. Ralph was the son and heir of Walter d'Aincurt, the Domesday lord of Blankley.

Walter married Agnes Basset in 1139. (Agnes Basset was born in 1120 in Drayton-Bassett, Staffordshire, England.)

Aline married Thomas d’Arcey, son of Robert d’Arcey and Alice de Cauz. (Thomas d’Arcey was born in 1150 in Nocton, Lincolnshire, England and died on 2 Jul 1180 in Nocton, Lincolnshire, England 1170.)

Let’s check that she was a child of Agnes Basset

http://cybergata.com/roots/9894.htm

Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166, p.266

Agnes married Walter d’Aincourt, son of Ralph d’Aincourt and Basilia, in 1139. (Walter d’Aincourt was born in 1115 in Blankney, Lincolnshire, England and died in 1168 in Blankney, Lincolnshire, England.)

http://powys.org/pl_tree/ps31/ps31_265.html Has

Notes for Walter de Aincourt

He. m. Agnes Basset and they had Oliver, John, Walter, Oliva and N.N. who m. Ralph of Worcester.

Here’s the start of the D’EINCOURT, with citations to chase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_D%27Aincourt

http://www.knight-france.com/geneal/names/4597.htm

Source <A general and heraldic dictionary of the peerages of England, Ireland, and ...> Par John Burke:
"D'ARCY-BARONS D'ARCY.

NORMAN DE ARECI ...

ROBERT D'ARCY, who founded a priory of Augustines at his lordship at Nocton, and otherwise contributed liberally to the church. This Robert was s. by his son and heir,

THOMAS D'ARCY, who, upon the assessment of the aid for marrying the king** daughter in the 12th Henry II.f certified that he then held twenty knights' feet de veteri feqffnmento, with half a knight's fee, and a fourth partd* novo, for which he paid £13. 6s. 8rf. This feudal lord m. Alice, daughter of Ralph D'Eincurt, by whom he had three sons and four daughters. He d. on St. Swithln's day, anno 1180, leaving Thomas his son and heir, then eighteen years of age. Upon the decease of his lordship, William Basset, sheriff of Lincolnshire, seized on his whole barony for the king, and committed it to the custody of Michael D'Arcy, but the baron's widow subsequently obtained the possession with the guardianship of her children, for which she paid £200. To Thomas D'Arcy *. his aforesaid son and heir, ..."

Sir Thomas D'Arcy, Lord of Nocton

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A36794.0001.001/1:6.85?rgn=div2;v...

The baronage of England, or, An historical account of the lives and most memorable actions of our English nobility in the Saxons time to the Norman conquest, and from thence, of those who had their rise before the end of King Henry the Third's reign deduced from publick records, antient historians, and other authorities
Dugdale, William, Sir, 1605-1686.
Table of contents | Add to bookbag | How to cite
THE BARONAGE OF ENGLAND AFTER THE Norman Conquest.

This Thomas became a special benefactor to the Canons of Nocton; for having (as it seems) by some Composition with the Monks of St. Maries at York, regained the Churches of Nocton and Duneston, given to them by his Father (as hath been observed) he bestowed p them on those Canons, with a great propor∣tion of Land, Meadow, and Woods, in and near Nocton, setq forth by Metes and Bonds. And diedr upon St. Swithin's day, 27 Hen. 2. as ap∣peareth s by the Presentment made before the Justices-Itinerant, in 32 Hen. 2. leaving Thomas his Son and Heir, then eighteen years of age; whereupon William Basset (then Sheriff of Lin∣colnshire) seizedt his whole Barony for the King, and committedu it, with all the stock then upon it,* unto Michael d'Arci: but after this Alice (or Aelina, as she is sometimes writ∣ten, his Widow, who was Daughter* of Ralph d'Eincurt) obtainedx the possession thereof; with the custodyy of her Children, for which she gave* two hundred pounds.

https://wc.rootsweb.com/trees/162642/I11160/alicealine-deincourt/ah...

I believe we need to follow the pedigree found here:

*Fould, Trevor. The Thurgarton Cartulary. Paul Watkins, Stamford, 1994. p. cxv. Table 1a: Deyncourt Main Branch.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000156602187834 link

Trevor Fould disagrees with The Complete Peerage in some family arrangements, including Alinda / Alice who married Thomas Darcy and therefore is a gateway ancestor for many Americans.

The only firm date I see is her death date, so If we massage or remove the less documented dates, there are no longer inconsistency complaints from the database.

So I’m leaving her as child of Basilia. If anyone knows otherwise, she’s easily moved.