John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster - curious

Suzan, try the share this path link, that way we can more easily see the profiles.

Suzan, where does your Ligon line come from and where does it connect to John of Gaunt? Your comment is a little confusing, because you start off talking about your connection (to John Gaunt?) via the Ligon line, as there is definitely a connected ancestral aristocratic line, but you sounded like the Bristow line was out of the LIgon line, .... ????

Suzan, where does your Ligon line come from and where does it connect to John of Gaunt? Your comment is a little confusing, because you start off talking about your connection (to John Gaunt?) via the Ligon line, as there is definitely a connected ancestral aristocratic line, but you sounded like the Bristow line was out of the LIgon line, .... ????

lol sorry - I will resend it

https://www.geni.com/path/Suzan-Martin+is+related+to+John-of-Gaunt-...

My brain has been fried all day

I question the Bristow lineage link, I've never seen this one before. I've followed, the Moseley, Ligon, Denys, Beaufort, etc.

I'm not familiar with the Bristow's although I'm kin to them throughout generations - they intermarried with my family throughout history. Even my great aunt Martin married a Bristow in Mississippi, by then they were Brister's.

Colleen, It wasn't uncommon for kids to be married at a young age back then.

Susan, I will need to do more review for more information. But this is what I have in my records for John of Gaunt.

John of Gaunt (1st Duke of Lancaster, Earl of Derby and Leicester, Steward of England, Capt, and Lt. of Calais) Plantagenet 18thGGF
Birth 6 MAR 1340, Death 3 FEB 1399

Suzan Martin Bleh, now we need the Bristow link to look at because your Ligons got in the way, pushy people. :)

My pushy people were Woodhulls on Long Island so might as well check them for fishiness also.

https://www.geni.com/path/Erica-Howton+is+related+to+John-of-Gaunt-...

Colleen Dorothy Maunsell I’d be happy to look at the inconsistency but I need a link to the profile.

I don’t see any inconsistencies for him. You reported Elizabeth Dacre, but she’s not in my path to him, so I don’t know which profile you see ...

John of Gaunt was not the 1st Duke of Lancaster, the title came to him by marriage. His father in law was the 1st Duke of Lancaster. Henry of Grosment, also the 4th Earl of Leicester. Born 1310 Grosmont Castle Died 1361 Leicester Castle. He had no male issue, his daughters were Blanche of Lancaster, and Maud Countess of Leicester. Blanch married John of Gaunt, and that is how he got the title. Infact his real name is John of Ghent, as his mother Phillipa of Hainault was in the Low Countries when he was born. We English have been mispronoucing his name ever since!

If you follow the Bristow line back far enough, it descends directly from William Longsword in the male line. Having a Bristow ancestor so recent as shown in your line is not a bad thing.

JUDITH CHRISTINE INCE -- thanks!

The title "1st Duke of Lancaster" is correct; when it was granted to him, it was granted as a new creation.

The "John of Gaunt," isn't what he was called in his lifetime (except very briefly as a child, so his name wasn't really John of Ghent either), but it's what he's been known as in the English speaking world since Shakespeare used it, and so is correct in general usage.

(Same sort of problem with Æthelred 'Unræd' -- the nickname translates to "uncounseled," but since the English speaking world has thought that "unraed" means "unready," since it stopped understanding that earlier version of the language, he's known in general usage as "Ethelred the Unready," making those of us who read Old English very annoyed. Such is life.)

Erica Howton I never thought of the Bristows going to John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, I actually like this link, it surprised me a little, at first, interesting lineage. I love my Bristow cousins in Mississippi, they rock! At first, A few years ago I kept showing up with so many DNA matches with Bristows and Brister's, then I came across the many marriages of Bristows in the Martin's and Chandler's close in my linage. I like the Bristow's there from my paternal grandfather's lineage, not my grandmother Moseley's lineage.

I imagine John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, is most people's double GGF's as he is mine - he only has billions of great-grandchildren. Geni software can't handle but 2, it gets confused and comes up with strange scenarios.

Today it's showing Ligon again and he's my 17th GGF lol

It's helpful for everyone to realize that not only did royals and nobles often get engaged and sometimes even married at extremely young ages (though physical intimacy wasn't necessarily part of the relationship until mid- to late teens), but they also married their cousins over and over again--though rarely first cousins, as this required a dispensation from the Pope. I have six lines through one great grandmother that crisscross so frequently that I've created a document of multiple lines of descent because it gets so confusing, and unfortunately the way Geni is set up adds to the confusion. For example, I'm descended from all five of William Marshall, Earl of Pembroke's daughters (but none of his five sons which is weird!). And I'm descended three times from John of Gaunt via 2 of his 3 wives, and twice from one of his daughters. It was a much smaller world back then and marrying a non-noble was unacceptable, so the possibiities were limited.

Erica Howton I thought I didn't remember a Saunders surname when reading about Lady Margaret Beaufort, so I was correct about that connection being wrong on my linage for the Bristows to John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster. I was wondering why it popped up mysteriously.

Agnes N.N.

This was the link we had from the Bristows to John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, it was proven wrong, back in history. Anne Brannen solved this---- read the profile, it's been updated and locked to prevent further problems in the future.

Ah ha! It was Alison Weir work. Glad Anne was on the case.

At the end of this year, or the 1st of 2021, author Kathryn Warner has a bio of John of Gaunt coming out. She has written many books about the Plantagenets, including both of John's parents & Edward III's parents.

https://www.amazon.com/Kathryn-Warner/e/B00JBV8AOC%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_...

I think I’ve read her blog.

Erica, Her blog is on Edward II & his times, family ect. It is very good. I just got her book on John's mother, Queen Philippa. It is very good too.

I decided I didn’t like the tone of my post concerning Alison Weir’s book on British Royal genealogy, so I deleted it, but here are the reviews I quoted, which discuss some problems with that book:

"As with many of her projects we find numerous problems indicating a lack of research. One example is Katherine FitzAlan, she is to have married Henry Grey, 1st Duke of Suffolk and son of Thomas Grey 2nd Marquis of Dorset. Katherine Fitz-alan was born about 1305 and died 2-May-1376 (this is well documented in any peerage listing) Henry Grey was born in 1517 and died 1553. How would that marriage work? Henry Grey was the 2nd Duke of Suffolk, not the first. This is concerning as too many researchers tend to believe this type of information and shows a lack of research. Please, do research as historians use to, read books. Leave the story telling to fiction writers."

"There are no citations for Weir's sources. This book is cited as a primary source on the internet and has caused massive confusion to genealogists. One example: James Touchet, 7th Baron Audley is traditionally understood to have married firstly Joan Bourchier, who was mother to the elder son who carried on the Touchet line and Audley Baronetcy, and secondly to have married Margaret Dayrell "who long outlived him". Weir has decided it was the other way around and provides no evidence to back up this claim. Hundreds of descendents who previously believed they were descended from Thomas Plantagenet now have to think again because of this historian. Considering the popularity of her books, her growing reputation for inaccuracy is deplorable."

Dear Jack,

Suzan Martin started a discussion about John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, a Geni profile that you follow.

Subject: John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster - curious

I'm running along my Ligon linage which is proven - but this switches now and looks flakey what happened did someone add something new??? Never knew the Bristow's jumped into the Royal Lineage? News to me John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster is your 16th great grandfather. Suzan Martin → Henry Victor Martin, II your father → Henry Victor Martin, I his father → William Lafayette Martin his father → Tabitha Selitty Martin his mother → Sarah Sally Jordan (Chandler) her mother → Martha Elizabeth Chandler her mother → Thompson Bristow her father → Jedediah B. Bristow his father → John Bristow his father → Robert Clifton Bristow, of Virginia and London his father → John Bristow his father → William Bristow his father → Avis Bristowe his mother → Katherine Budd ???? Jumps right in?? her mother → Agnes Saunders (Courtney) ??? does this fit? her mother → Lady Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Devon her mother → John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset her father → John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster his father.
Reply-Hello Suzan,While my connection to John of Gaunt may come as a surprise to you it doesn't to me as far as I can see although I have yet to prove my lineage officially.
My main tree is on Ancestry.com ( registered but not a paid subscriber ).A quick look at my person notes shows John of Gaunt and his wife Katherine Swynford are my 19th great grandparents.My lineage line travels down from their daughter Joan Beaufort and her spouse Robert de Ferrers, to their daughter Elizabeth de Ferrers who married John Greystoke ,to their daughter Anne de Greystoke and spouse Ralph Bigod,etc, etc.
Regards
Jack Richardson
New Zealand

Margaret Beaufort and Thomas de Courtenay did have a daughter named Agnes, but the dates don’t work, to make her the wife of Saunders.

Agnes Sanders Courtney is posited by Alison Weir. Shaky genealogy.

Here is the Agnes who married Saunders — Agnes N.N.

More information is in her profile and there is a discussion somewhere around here. I will go look.

Here it is — https://www.geni.com/discussions/212577