Richard Betts - Born after Father's Death

Sorry I don’t know anything about Richard Betta or the Betts family.

That's just because Richard Betts didn't die in 1613.

"He emigrated to New England in 1648, and is found at Ipswich the same year ; but soon after came to Newtown, where he proved himself a person of intelligence, participated largely in public affairs, and acquired great influence. In the revolution of 1663 he bore a zealous part, and after the conquest of New Netherland by the English, was a member, from Newtown, of the provincial assembly held at Hempstead in 1665. He subsequently served as high sheriff of Yorkshire, upon Long Island, to which office he was commissioned, Oct. 30, 1678, and retained it till 1681. For a long series of years he performed the duties of a magistrate, during which he was more than once a member of the high court of assize, then the supreme power in the province. Capt. Betts became an extensive landholder at the English Kills, a portion of his land being now owned by his descendant, Thos. H. Betts. His residence was in the old Betts house, now occupied by Mr. Hanson. Here he d. at the extreme age of 100 yrs. Nov. 18, 1713. It is said of this remarkable man, that he dug his own grave. By his wife, Joanna, he had issue, Richard, Thomas, Joanna, who m. John Scudder ; Mary, m. Jos. Swezey ; Martha, m. Philip Ketcham ; Elizabeth, m. Jos. Sackett, and Sarah, who m. Edward Hunt."

https://books.google.com/books?id=I5QAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA374#v=onepag... (p. 373-4)

Capt. Richard Betts (Sr.) b. 1613 - died Nov. 18, 1713 (age 100)

His wife was "Joanna" (not "Suzzanah"). ((She was probably Joanna Chamberlain, erroneously connected to Richard, Jr.. Also she died the same year that he did, 1711, which is as I recall reading in the history of Long Island. The Chamberlain family knew the Betts very, very well; probably arrived on the same ships.))

His children were Richard, Jr., Thomas, Joanna (m. John Scudder), Mary, m. (Jos. Swezey/Swayze) ; Martha, (m. Philip Ketcham), Elizabeth (m. Jos. Sackett), and Sarah (who m. Edward Hunt).
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"Richard Betts, son of Richard,1 became a landholder as early as 1680, and settled on the south bounds of Newtown, (upon lands now mostly included in the Cypress Hills Cemetery,) where he d. Nov. 4, 1711, leaving issue Richard, Robert, Thomas, Sarah, Elizabeth, Joanna, Abigail, and Mary ; and a widow, Sarah, who survived him many years."

So again, Richard Jr. was not married to Joanna, who was probably his mother. Nor was he married to Mrs. Sarah (Betts) Hunt, as she was his sister.

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This book contains abstracts of the wills of both Capt. Betts and his son Richard, Jr. (Jr. also had a son named Richard, to make it more interesting).

https://books.google.com/books?id=x7EFAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA83&lpg=...

It would be good to correct and MP the profiles for Capt. Richard Betts (Sr.) and his close family members, as there should be ample historical sources for them.

Correction, Joanna Betts died the same year as her SON, Richard Jr. Richard Jr.'s will was proved ca. 1712. So Capt. Betts outlived both of them by about a year.

Is it known for sure either when Richard Betts the immigrant was born or when exactly his father died? In any case, the current listing of the death of Richard Betts's father in 1613 and the birth of Richard Betts is April 1614 and it could be entirely possible that both things were true as the father could have died during the mother's pregnancy. I do not know enough about this to know if either the birth of Richard Betts or the death of his father has been established through documents. Richard Betts the immigrant died in 1713 and his age at death is reported as 100 so perhaps he was born in 1613. What you would need to do is investigate to see if there is documentation (in the form of parish registers or probate documents) to establish a birth date for Richard the immigrant or a death date for his father.

Patricia is making an important point. Unless you have records of the England- side families to refer to (easier said than done), take “all” the dates with grains of salt; they are easily corrupted, if ever known, in on line trees. The best data to establish identity is will data, and NEHGS & NYBR have done those studies.

The problem I’ve run into with using parish registers is that too many people don’t analyze carefully to establish that this indeed refers to the emigrant ancestor. That’s why I like Will data that cleanly says: my son Richard in America, :).

Capt. Richard Betts, the father -- was the Immigrant. So the elder Betts could not have died in 1613 (it was 1713, in fact, and historical documents state that he was 100 years old when he died -- the man was very prominent in his community). Their death dates are already established in their WILL ABSTRACTS, which are RECORDED. I gave the LINK ABOVE already. This is why I've stayed away from it, because people can't even acknowledge official documents.

Erica, the FATHER, CAPTAIN Richard Betts -- was the Immigrant. Please study the history of Long Island if you're going to curate it.

Debra, that was uncalled for. I’m from NYC & I know the area. Of course I’m always learning as are we all.

Keri was questioning the FATHER of the emigrant.

Richard Betts

who is showing as died 1613, whilst his son was born 1614.

I’m suggesting that we don’t actually know the FATHER’s death date and in fact it may not be known from records.

(If he died c 1613, he did not emigrate). And the emigrant seems to have been known as Richard son of Richard.

So this is not about history at all.

The first link didn't work for me, so I'll try it again. "The Annals of Newtown, in Queens County, New-York (c.1852), pp. 373-4

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Annals_of_Newtown_in_Queen...

By the way, the history of Long Island is one of the best documented of all Colonial America. And the link to the book of Will abstracts does work.

Where is the evidence that he died in 1613? There isn't a shred of evidence to suggest it. 1613 is awfully early to be living and dying on Long Island when "The colony was conceived by the Dutch West India Company (WIC) in 1621" -- 8 years later.

Capt. Richard Betts' name is on one or more of the FOUNDING documents for Long Island, right around the time the English took it over. My Denman and Scudder ancestors are also on those documents, which are deeds to land.

Sorry, but it really is about history.

Debra, again, you’re not understanding Keri’s question. Shes talking about the parents of the emigrant.

She has this for a tree:

1. Richard Betts d 1613 m Suzannah Smith, parents of
2. Capt Richard Betts d 1713 m Joanna Chamberlain parents of
3. Richard Betts Jr d 1711

I can’t answer her English ancestry question because it’s her profile and I don’t know where she’s sourcing from.

I can answer about plenty of other Long Island ancestors as they are also mine. But I don’t curate this particular profile.

In other words, no one is disagreeing with your findings. You aren’t addressing the question of the English ancestry.

Sorry, and it really does get into my own tree.

Joanna (Chamberlain) Betts is your 10th great aunt.

Nevertheless, there is no documentation that I'm aware of, for the parentage of Capt. Richard Betts (Sr., the Immigrant). I have always considered the parentage given here for him (Richard "Sr." and "Suzzanah") as 'fictitious', because it hasn't been verified on this site.

I am thinking the same thing. It looks “logical” (almost) but I have no idea where that couple comes from, and there certainly is no reference to origins for Richard Betts I have seen. However I have not looked beyond the references you mention and the ones in profile.

So - where does this couple (Richard Betts & Suzannah) come from?

I’ll put in a reminder. We do “not” know the origins for most of the arriving colonists from England in this generation and location.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Betts-70 has for parents Richard Betts & Alice Lord with a vague note:

Richard Betts was descended from the Betts family of Withenden, Suffolk, England. The family coat-of-arms was granted about 1006. Register Book for the Parish of Jamaica July 22, 1710 to December 2, 1731, kept by the Rev Thomas Poyer: under "Persons Buried": "Richd Betts aged 113 years Novber 20, 1713 at the Kills."[1]

All authorities agree that Richard Betts came from Hemel, Hempstead, Engand.[2]

2. ↑ New England Dictionary of New England Settlers - Savage

For the father they have

Richard Betts
Born about 12 Aug 1555 in Wortham, England d 1620 & cite - geni.

Richard Betts

Following old geni discussions, references are given to

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~lkiser10/genealogy/aqwg26.htm#2153

https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/m/u/m/William-Howard-james-Mumford/WE...

This is more realistic.

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~cheyne/p291.htm

“Concerning the ancestry of Capt. Richard Betts, the progenitor of the Newtown family, nothing positive has been ascertained, though it is probable that he was descended from a family of this name, located at Withenden in Suffolk County, England, as early as the fifth century. He himself is believed to have come from Hemel-Hempstead in Hertfordshire, or its vicinity.”

Without citation WeRelate offers https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:George_Betts_%285%29 & Agnes Mann.

https://fliphtml5.com/icpg/tead/basic Offers Richard Betts b 1573 d unknown wife unknown also father of Sarah (Betts) Fowler.

Sarah Fowler

So is there any findable link to her?

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LK3Y-WFK?icid=amp_... Has him but without a son Richard.

https://books.google.com/books?id=mOgK8dM9qqUC&pg=PA280&lpg... Torreys New England Marriages have Joseph Fowler b 1620 & Sarah Betts marrying 1630/5 at RI? Newtown.

An actual clue.

And that’s a bingo.

JOSEPH FOWLER, was b. in Dalbury Lees, in Derbyshire, before 1610; under the will of his father he inherited the lands which the latter bought of his (John's) brother, Henry Fowler of Barthomley, Co. Chester. Mr. Fowler was in London in 1645, as he proved his father's will there in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. He and his brother Richard came to New England about 1650, and are said to have first located in Rhode Island. There may be some probability in this statement as most of the early settlers of Newton, Flushing, Hempstead and Oyster Bay were from that Colony. He was in Maspeth Kill, now Newtown (Riker's Newtown, p.38), in 1655; taxed £1 in 1656 for 20 acres at Middlebury; Dec, 12, 1657, he signed the remonstrance to the Governor of New York, protesting against the injustice to the Quakers. In the Town Records of Newtown, Book I, p.452, is a deed from Joseph Fowler of Maspeth Kills to Robert Jackson of Hempstead for 40 acres at Middlebury, which the said Fowler purchased from his brother-in-law Richard Betts; said deed is dated April 10, 1660. Aug. 10, 1654, ordered on petition of Thomas Wandell to stay execution until Joseph Fowler appear to defend himself (Dutch His. Mss., Albany, Vol. 5, p. 322); Nov. 25, 1654, authorizing the inhabitants of Maspeth to notify Joseph Fowler to quit that place, he being a public disturber, and in case he refuse to have him arrested (Dutch His. Mss., Albany, Vol.5, p.444); June 4, 1655, attachment issued against the person and property of Joseph Fowler of Maspeth, at the suit of Thomas Wan-dell (Dutch His. Mss., Vol. VI, p. 51); Oct. 8, 1655 affidavit of Joseph Safford and Thomas Read of Maspeth Kill that they have been informed by Joseph Fowler, Goodman Betts and his son William, that people from Graves-end had been to Westchester where they learned the unfriendly feeling of the Indians towards the Dutch (Dutch His. Mss., Vol. VI, p.91); Jan. 2, 1657, testimony of Joseph Fowler and Hannah Bradish in the petition of John George Baldwin for a divorce from his wife on the grounds of adultery (Dutch His. Mss., Vol.8, p.417).

Joseph Fowler, m. Sarah, daughter of Richard Betts, Sr., of Hempstead, Co. Middlesex, Eng., and sister of Richard Betts, one of the original patentees of Newtown, and a Magistrate, 1656-57. Had issue:

1 WILLIAM (see No. XIV.)
2 SARAH, m. Henry Taylor of Flushing.

https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/fowler/7144/

Joseph Fowler

Do we buy it? A Richard Betts, wife unknown, death unknown, at least these two children - Sarah & Richard, who both came to Newtown.

Michael Cooley (a geni member) has

http://www.ancestraldata.com/ahnentafel/7460/

Name: John Bettes
Born: 23 Sep 1576
Place: Bearsted, Kent, England
Died: 8 Aug 1620
Place: West Peckham, Kent, England

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We can ask him how confident he is on this & what he thinks of Sarah (Betts) Fowler as sister. He does a lot of Long Island genealogy.

Yes Erica Howton . That is a good idea. BTW thank you for all you do. :)

Please examine the citations in profiles and determine whether we feel Sarah (Betts) Fowler was Richard Betts sister. Dates are vague for her & her children, if any, are questionable.