A Confusion of Names??

Started by Private User on Monday, May 11, 2020
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  • Private User
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  • Private User
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Private User
5/11/2020 at 6:31 AM

There is a Zaleszczyki Books of Residents 1941, shown on JewishGen and JRI-Poland, that has Mozes Marhoffer as the "main tenant"
He appears on Geni as Mozes Marhoffer

According to this list, Mozes' mother was Malcia Plusser, who married a Marhoffer and so became Malcia (Plusser) Marhoffer

Also on this list is Mozes' grandson, Dawid Plusser, whose mother is given as Malcia Marhoffer. Consistent with how information is shown on this list, that would mean her birth surname was Marhoffer. Since her son's father is given as a Plusser, that suggests her married name would be Malcia (Marhoffer) Plusser.

Despite the names being very similar, it seems clear to me that Malcia (Plusser) Marhoffer and Malcia (Marhoffer) Plusser were two different people, and that the latter was the granddaughter of the first.

Private User
5/11/2020 at 6:46 AM

The list only shows one daughter of Mozes living in his household, and that is Blanka, whose surname is given as Marhoffer, and for whom "Marital Status" is blank, thus also indicating she is single.

Instead of showing two daughters for Mozes, Geni currently shows one, first name Blanka, last name Plusser, birth surname Marhoffer, daughter of Mozes and mother of Dawid. Blanka Marhoffer

Private User
5/11/2020 at 7:32 AM

If there are convincing arguments that Malcia was not a separate child of Mozes, I can undo this, but for now have added a profile for Malcia (Marhoffer) Plusser. Malcia Plusser
As a sister of Blanka.

I am waiting to hear what arguments can be made for attaching Dawid and his father to Blanka before moving them to Malcia

Private User
5/12/2020 at 9:15 AM

Sent a PM, waited over twenty four hours, then moved Adolf and Dawid to Malcia and changed Blanka's last name to match info on 1941 Residents List

Private User
5/13/2020 at 8:36 AM

I'm fine with leaving things as you have defined them. If new information comes to light that indicates different relationships, we can change things at that time.

Private User
5/16/2020 at 10:57 AM

To avoid confusion. I have removed the duplicate profile entries and just have Dawid Plusser Marhoffer as the son of Karla Marhoffer Klara Marhoffer.

Private User
5/16/2020 at 11:37 AM

Those were not duplicates. There was just one profile for Malcia (Mahoffer) Plusser and there was just one profile for Adolf Plusser. There had also been only one version for David Plusser

It is against Geni Policy and Standards to delete a Profile you are not the sole manager of without all the managers agreeing. I have undeleted those three profiles.
I see before deleting Malcia (Marhoffer) Plusser you had disconnected her. I willl be rreconnecting her, since you have given no explanation whatsoever for the disconnection.
Since, after deleting a profile of David Plusser, you created a new profile of David Plusser there are now duplicates of David Plusser

Please explain why you think it makes any sense to show David Plusser as the son of Klara.

Private User
5/16/2020 at 12:53 PM

Lois, Right now Dawid and Malcia have duplicate tree entries 1) where Adolf is related to Klara's mother Malcia, whom fathered Dawid. 2) We also have Dawid as the son of Klara. We shouldn't have both, especially since we're the ones who entered in all the profiles info based on the single 1941 residents document.

As documented in our lengthy email conversations, you thought that Dawid was more likely to be a relation to Klara and not to either her mother Malcia or daughter Blanca, so that is what I was attempting to setup. As the profiles were all interlinked, the only way I could start to untangle things was to delete and reenter.

So no one will accuse you of policy violations, I will stipulate here that you have my permission to pick/setup one profile for Dawid, Malcia, and Adolf within the Marhoffer clan and remove all other duplicates. This is what I was attempting to do before the work I started was all undone.

You have provided excellent notes in this discussion on some of the conflicting data provided in the 1941 residents document. We can only provide a best guess when presented with minimal information, so please pick one and we'll adjust if new information emerges.

David

Private User
5/16/2020 at 2:37 PM

There is a Malcia who is Mozes' mother. And there is a Malcia who is Dawid's mother. They have different birth surnsmes. They are not the same person..

Our lengthy discussion was thru Geni's private messaging. I said (referring to Dawid,)

"The 1941 list has him as grandson of the "main tenant", who is Mozes Marhoffer.
My guess, Dawid's mother is daughter of Mozes. You can possibly use edit to editing relationship to choose parents on Dawid" s mother, if you agree."

and in another comment said

" Klara would have been 42_in 1903. Not an impossible age to have a child, but very likely would have had one or more. before then. And naming a daughter after the father's mother would have been very common. So think that is much more likely."

Private User
5/16/2020 at 2:47 PM

David, I see no conflicting dsta. And I never ever suggested Dawid was Klara's child.
What I suggested was Klara was old enough to have had more children than shown on the 1941 Residents List.
And that quite likely one of those children might have been named Malcia, after her husband's mother. (Klara' s mother is not Malcia. Mozes' mother is Malcia. But that is Not the same Malcia who is Dawid's mother!

Private User
5/16/2020 at 2:54 PM

As an aside, it is totally unnecessary to delete and reenter profiles in order to move them. I am pretty good at doing thst by now, and anyone needing help with such can post a request in. https://www.geni.com/discussions/192543

Private User
5/16/2020 at 5:59 PM

The "x2" in a little green ball in the lower left corner of a profile box in Tree View does not mean duplicates. It means the profile is connected in two different ways.
You will get this correctly any time two siblings marry siblings, any time first cousins marry, etc.

In the case of Adolf, Malcia, and Dawid it is due to your decision to make Adolf the brother of Mozes' mother.Malcia nee Plusser. Since there is no actual reason to believe they are siblings, shall we delete that sibling relationship?

Private User
5/17/2020 at 6:28 AM

After David's last message above and, it turns out, before the rest of my comments yesterday after his last comment above, David sent me an email (not thru Geni).
In it, he said. "They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so I figured sending this would help show you the duplicates that are in Geni right now."

It included a picture of a Tree View on Geni from after I had undeleted Adolf, Malcia, and Dawid and had connected them as husband, wife, and child. David had circled four profiles: The one for the Dawid that I had undeleted and the one for the Dawid he had created after deleting that one plus the one the one for the Malcia whose birth surname was Plusser. and the one for the Malcia whose birth surname was Marhoffer.

I have since merged the two for Dawid. And I told him yet again that the two Malcia's were not duplicates, they were different people. He had never once said he thought they were the same person, and I do not know if he has registered yet that I am saying they are not.

Private User
5/17/2020 at 6:37 AM

Possibly adding to the confusion, Geni allows us to choose how we will see names displayed.
I have chosen so I see
First-name (Birth-surname) Last-name
And from the picture he sent me, I can see David is seeing (at least when no middle name)
First-name Last-name (Birth-surname)

Private User
5/17/2020 at 6:48 AM

I have also moved Malcia born Marhoffer back to being the child of Mozes and Klara. At the time of the picture David sent me, Adolf Plusser was shown as the brother of Malcia born Plusser., and the Malcia born Marhoffer showed no parents.

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