HaRav Shabty Ashkenazi HaCohen Katz, the SCHaCH - Relationship between Rema and the Shach

Here is what I have: RaMa>Dreyzl (Isserles) Meisels>Leah (Meisels)>Binyamon Shimon Vulf>Yenteh Leah Meisels m. SCHaCH So there is no blood relationship between the RaMa and the SCHaCH. The SCHaCH is married to the 2x great granddaughter of the RaMa. Their descendants are related by blood to both the RaMa and the SCHaCH. The wife of Binyamon Shimon Vulf is Sarah bat MaHarSha: Sarah Meisels

the mother of Yente Leah (wife of the Schach) named Bella Delhiner, she buried in hildesheim.

Michael Tabacinic
in the profile of
https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000000348795388?album_type=phot...
In his profile picture I included information on the subject (in Hebrew)

Netanel Isaiah Frisch

we have to be careful about the information (including information available on the ozar hachochma website).If you followed yesterday's discussion in the group we are both members of: (rabbinical genealogy group), Yaron wrote to me yesterday that there is in geni Mistakes regarding the identity of the rema's grandfather and great-grandfathers
When I return from work today, I will try to go over the information he wrote to me and open discussions on the subject.
If you have time during the day, I would be happy if you do so, making it easier for me (I get back from work late and tired)
In addition, I would love to know where you have the information about Beila Tauber (Delhiner)
Beila Meisels (Tauber?)
Because not all information found on the network (including in hebrew books website) is correct and verified information
many thanks

https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46421&st=&pgn...
note 74. and in previous page.

also in Monatsschrift 1900, pages 244-245.
Rema was father in law of Rabbi Simcha Bunim Meisles who was father in law of Rabbi Isaac Bunim's, he was the father of Shimon Wolf Vilner (not Tauber) who was the father in law of the Schach.

https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46421&st=&pgn...
in this page the fathers in law of Shimon wolf the son of Dreisel Meisles.

Netanel Isaiah Frisch
many thanks
האם ראית את הדיון, ואת מה שכתב לי ירון פדהצור לגביי זהותם של סבו וסבי הרבא של הרמ"א?

Netanel Isaiah Frisch, that first source is confusing - it says that Moshe the bal Mahador Batra was the son of Itzhak Bunamesh, the grandson of the Rema.

Assuming Itzhak Bunamesh is Rabbi Isaac Wolf Bunim-Meisels, of Vilna:

1) his WIFE is the grandchild of the Rema, not him, but that may have been colloquial use of "grandson"

2) His children (presumably in order of birth) were:

a) Rabbi Moshe Ben Yitzhak HaCohen Bunems Meisels, Ba'al "Mahadura Batra" the son-in-law of Shmuel Eliezer haLevi Eideles, MaHarSha
b) Avraham the son-in-law of Yosef Kalmanash
c) Wolf Vilna the son-in-law of Hirsh Delhiner (presumably Rabbi Simon-Binyamin son Isaac Wolf Meisels, of Vilna)
d) Yisrael the son-in-law of R' Baer Kalmanash of Fartsave
e) Marel the wife of Pinchas Zelig Ashkenaz of Minsk
f) Dreizel the wife of Isaac of Kraamintz [and the uncle of Rabbi Isaac of Hirsh of Lukwana]
g) Krindel, the wife of Wolf Pisk from Nickelsburg
h) Leib the son-in-law of Yaakov Ashkenaz
i) Rachama wife of Yaakov Gitils from Levitsk
j) Shprintzel the wife of Israel Drashan of Kalish

(apologies for butchering the cities and last names)

Only the two I linked to match Geni's entry for Rabbi Isaac Wolf Bunim-Meisels, of Vilna's children; am I reading this incorrectly?

If I read correctly, then either that is not the correct Itzhak, or the other siblings of Moshe and Shimon are incorrect, or incorrectly named.

http://toladot.blogspot.com/2011/04/blog-post_15.html#more
http://toladot.blogspot.com/2011/04/blog-post_18.html#more
http://toladot.blogspot.com/2011/04/blog-post_25.html#more

Shmiel Nochum Minz, I'm having a hard time understanding the 3 links you sent - my Hebrew is not great. Could you please translate the relevant parts of those articles?

From #15 I got:
מהמקור השלישי - מגילת ריש [...] לא נתחדש מידע רב לענין זה, רק הידיעה כי ר' מאיר כץ, אביו של הש"ך היה חתן הקצין ר' נחום לוקווער
"The third source - the Megillat Rish [...] didn't bring new information on this matter, only that R' Meir Katz, the Sha"ch's father was the son-in-law of R' Nachum Luckvar (?)"

On Geni, R' Meir Katz's father-in-law is Rabbi Yitzhak Katz, [of Posnan], not R' Nachum - but this also doesn't seem relevant.

I don't really have the time to translate all this but 1 thing is sure that this site is much more accurate then geni because geni is a site that everyone can put in any names and that site went through the real details.

Ok, this keeps coming up and confusing my research. Was Shimon Wulfe Meisels really married to Unsourced Schach daughter - wrong link wife Shimon Wulfe Meisels, who was his great grand niece?!?

If not, can someone please take a look and figure out which relationship here is incorrect??

https://www.geni.com/path/Shimon-Meiseles+is+related+to+Mrs-Shimon-...

I have been told my lineage my entire life. My mother's family name was Shakewitz and were not only among the first founders of Gedera, Israel with placks dedicated to them, but I was told that my family are direct decendants of the Schach. Will a DNA test prove that? Can I import my family tree from Ancestry here? My Ancestry DNA shows that I am 100% European Jew. My family is Ashkenazi. I have also traced both sides of my family to the same area of Russia/Poland. Please help me, as I don't really know what I am doing. B'H' Sharon

Sharon Jo Ramboz I started filling out your tree. Keep adding and correcting the information and with luck you'll find the connecction.

Sharon Jo Ramboz Yes you can transfer a tree from Ancestry to GENI by first downloading the tree from Ancestry as a gedcom file and then uploading that to GENI.

Using DNA to confirm descent from the Schach is more difficult, but there could be a way of doing this depending on whose dna results you have. Please see this project for more detail: https://www.geni.com/projects/Rabbinical-Lineages-yDNA-and-Haplogro....

Best Wishes, Adam

Adam, I am not good with computers. Can you explain how to download a gencom file? I have no idea what that is, much less uploading to GENI.

My Grandfather Shimshon has told me he is a descendant of Shimshon M'Ostropolie and of SCHACH through the marriage of their children. In that lineage tree there is also Yaacov Yosef haKohen Katz (Toldot Yaacov Yosef), his son and son-in-law whose names appear on the title page of the first printing of Toldot. The names Shimshon, Shabtai and Meir and Moshe also appear several times in that tree.
Can anybody add to this knowledge?

Thanks, Lipa

רבנו שבתי הכהן בעל הש"ך
חתן הרב שמחה בונם מייזליש מקראקא
חתן רבנו הגדול הרב משה איסליש, הרמ"א
חתן רבנו שלום שכנא מלובלין
Has anyone heard of this?

This is how I see things at the moment and is also as shown on GENI: wife of Shakh: Yenta Leah Katz her father: Rabbi Simon-Binyamin son Isaac Wolf Meisels, of Vilna his mother: Leah Bunim Meisels her mother: Dreizel (Therese) Bunim-Meisels her father: Rabbi Moses ben Israel Isserles, "RaMA" who married Golda Isserles, [ReMa #2 wife] and Krendel Isserles, [RaMa #1 wife] It is not yet clear to me which of these two wives was the mother of Dreizel (Therese) Bunim-Meisels So, the reference you gave combines Yenta Leah Katz and Leah Bunim Meisels and also decides that the mother of Dreizel (Therese) Bunim-Meisels is Golda Isserles, [ReMa #2 wife] (this is how the GENI trees shows things but I have also seen Krendel Everels assigned as the mother of Dreizel Isserles.

Benzion Yitzchok Rieger, to put what Private User said in different terms:

According to Geni:
HaRav Shabty Ashkenazi HaCohen Katz, the "SHaCH" ("SHaCH") was the son-in law of Rabbi Simon-Binyamin son Isaac Wolf Meisels, of Vilna

and
Rabbi Moses ben Israel Isserles, "RaMA" ("RaMA") was the father-in-law of Simcha Bunim Meisels [ABD Krakow, ReMA s-in-law]

Additionally:
Rabbi Simon-Binyamin son Isaac Wolf Meisels, of Vilna was the father of Rabbi Simha Bonem Benjamin Wulff

Assuming Geni has the correct relationships, it's very possible that at some point in time someone confused "Shimon-Binyamin Wolf Meisels (Vilna)" with his son "Simha Bunim Binyamin Wolf" and with his grandfather*** "Simcha Bunim Meisels (Krakow)", and assumed they were all one and the same person and wrote it down as such.

According to Geni (which could be incorrect), the relationship between the SHaCH and the RaMA was:
The Shach's daughter Unsourced Schach daughter - wrong link wife Shimon Wulfe Meisels married the ReMA's grandson Shimon Wulfe Meisels

***One thing that makes Geni's stated relationships problematic and unlikely is that according to Geni:
Simcha Bunim Meisels [ABD Krakow, ReMA s-in-law] was the grandfather of Rabbi Simon-Binyamin son Isaac Wolf Meisels, of Vilna, meaning he was the great-great-grandfather of Unsourced Schach daughter - wrong link wife Shimon Wulfe Meisels, which would mean that Shimon Wulfe Meisels was his own wife's great-grand-uncle. It's possible, but unlikely without some clear source.