Dale C. Rice Maternal links to English Power Familieshttps://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Ralph-Neville-1st-Earl-of-Westmorland?from=6000000013463839522&path_type=blood&to=6000000001069437500

One of the Important links to my Paternal Story of John Rice 1624 my proved 6th great grandfather and his mother ( a woman called Tamzin) is that I met up with my 8th cousin great grand daughter of Elizabeth Frost Rice-Whale last year in Wover Hampton England. I bothered to see how far down the line of female to female descendants there are from Thomasine Frost Rice and I found the daughters of daughters of Thomasine extend to Utah and Senator From Utah Orin Hatche's Mother....also a member of my home church. Small world yes? So Now that we have Y chromosome information it is time to handle Family Finder Mt. DNA down to my Cousin Annie Hamilton Whale of Wolverhampton England. I'll be paying for her DNA test at FAMILY Tree to see if we can link daughter to daughter from her Elizabeth Frost Rice-Whale 6th great grandmother to my (Tamzin 1624). As far as Original research goes: I spent nine years looking at 8 great grandmothers up from Anne Boleyn and have them named. So finding my Hatch connection to my cousin Annie Hamilton was not hard. Does anyone care to see those results when they come in? DCR 948

Dear Geni Curators: Kindly open the file on William ap Rice 1522 who's birth is not in question but his parantage is. The Correction done in January of 2019 moved him from the Son of Rhys ap Griffet ap Gruffed son of Sir Rhys ap Thomas to John ap Rice & his wife: Thomasine Minn-Myall? I bring this up because the Baroncy of Dynvor passed to Henry RICE of Newton who was not Walter Rice's son. Walter son of Griffeth and Katherine Howard Bridgewater had a daughter who married a Captain Button my maternal 6th cousin as I recall. Geni has generally grudginly followed my observations on these family matters and we should note that the Baron's of Dynvore are still in existence and the relationship of Henry Rice of Newton is NOT the Son of Griffeth. He is the son of William ap Rice 1522 and my Lattermer cousin Elizabeth. Can we please correct this or is every one afraid to talk about this? I say let the chips fall were they may.

William Apreece

Can everyone read this OK?

https://books.google.com/books?id=mXkgAQAAMAAJ&lpg=PA126&dq...

I believe Dale is referring to William Apreece of North Crawley who married Elizabeth Latimer.

No son Henry listed.

Walter Rice of Newton

https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/r...

Henry Rice mentioned here with no wife described

https://biography.wales/article/s-RICE-NEW-1500

Dale C. Rice -- I find myself confused.

You say that the father of William Prys got changed, in January of 2019, from Rhys ap Gruffudd to John ap Rice.

But his father did not get changed in January 2019.

Also his father is not now John ap Rice.

To Cousin Cheley Hakanson , Your fairness and kindness moved me & Ms. Erica as you may recall , I think we are distant cousins and I like a sharp mind to dissect my adventurous connections. Which By the way I only discovered after being here for more than 4 years. I barely knew the Name Boleyn and then discovered her sister is a great Grandmother of the Spencers through Knolleys. It was a very slow and tedious beginning here at Geni because my Branch was stopped at Samuel Rice of Dedham and his father and mother John Rice 1624 & Anne Hackley were on their own with a suspicion that Samuel Rice of Con. was his son. On My arrival: Dr. Chandler's assertion at the Edmund Rice file cemented me as the missing linkage to Samuel's Son Samuel and Rebecca Mills (Herbert). All in all that twig which began in 2010 with 7 or 8 names is now over 750 names and another 700 pending in Rice family tree. Not because of me but in spite of me. I am fully aware of the hard work it is to do this kind of research but I have these insider pieces of information that keep getting confirmed by GENI so I persist. I realized that as I pursue my Father's tale here it makes some people ENRAGED. I can't explain it but I learned I could not defend myself here without being painted with the UGLY Brush used against me and my story. I should report to you at 71 I am finally a grateful grandfather as my daughter's partner gave birth on Dec. 8 of last year to the most beguiling creature of Latvian Mother and German Father with the name Annija Pinterniece-Rice. So I am in a devil of a push to get some things battened down for the sake of the Rice-Family Book, which is more or less complete at some 250 pages and am trying desperately to fill out the story for my grand daughter's education expenses in the future estimated at $20,000 per sememster. YIKES. Okay: let's go back to Willia ap Rice 1522 son of Griffeth ap Rhys 1508 ap Gruffed ap Rice ap Thomas Husband of Katherine Howard-Rice/ Bridge water after Griffeth age 17 was beheaded on Tower Hill Jan 4, 1531. Henry Rice of Newton inherits from Sir Walter Rice of Dynevor but Henry Rice is not his son. I know that much because Min-Myall and Robert's son William would not be named as an Heir to WAlter. it has to be the blood of 1508 Rhys ap Gruffed through son Griffeth 1530 ca and daughter Agness and or Elizabeth Rice-Griffeth who give rise to a Male heir that inherits title and lands...(lands can go to a relative but not the title is that right?) DCRhttps: //biography.wales/article/s-RICE-NEW-1500 Henry Rice 1590 is Henry RICE of Newton as I recall.

In the absence of my conversational style and tone which no doubt irritate some I find this to be about the only place in the world where the brightest people in History can communicate. Having arrived to this awareness late in life, my method of inquiry tests the depths of what is known against insider information which came down through my Dudley line. As was pointed out by a researching that was not my blood but rather my Uncles line. Ahem: well yes it was....I was illustraiting the source of insider information not blood at that point. But my actual Dudley blood connection carried on Geni to the Dudley's is also the reference of John DUdley 1850 who is a 23/25 match on Family Tree. I thought it was clear to finally link DNA with Geni linkages only a reference to my father's story of Dudley as 9th great grandfather and his son whom I found and brought to Geni 8 years ago John Perratt II 1565 and 1580-83 Oxinesis at Grey's Inn. Some of the other links I discovered and taken over by various Geni Curators are William ap Rice 1521 born after the Field of Cloth of Gold to Beatrice wife of Daffid ap Rice son of Sir Rhys ap Thomas aka FATHER Rice to the Tudors. Beatrice was in fact pulled from Sir Rhys ap Thomas's household and put into service by the King at Princess Mary Tudor's residence in the Marches of Wales. She educated the Boy William at the local Priory and paid all his expenses and indeed History of Parliment on line records she also gave him residences at Medmenham and his sister Mary 1530 20 yards of white silk for her marriage about 1548 to Thomas Perkins.

So : my Bad boy reputation as non-conformist Genealogist I submit we have lots of fertile ground to till in the Rice's of Dynevor. And I have found several pieces on line which I brought back to Geni only to be snapped up by various persons. William ap Rice 1622 and William ap Rice 1621 are cousins by virture of their connections as sons to Rhys ap Thomas many, many illegitimate sons. Robert ap Rice has been rightfully connected to his wife Joan Otter who was early on cited as mother of William 1522 but no longer connected to the Barons of Dynvore. Griffeth had his son Walter but Walter had no one but his Daughter who was married into the Button Family. So Why does Henry Rice of Newton End up with the Dynevor estate? Are the Wires crossed about William 1521 son of Beatrice and Daffid ap Rice and his cousin William son of Robert and Joan Otter?

Ann Brannon: You are not confused...3 years ago it was John Rice now it;s beeen corrected to Robert Rice your doing and I thank you. What is now to be determined is find the linkage of Henry RIce of Newton to Sir WALTER who had no son. My contention from 3 years back was Henry of Newton was son of William 1522 and Elizabeth Lattimer. Apparently Minn-Myall and Joan Otter are the wives of Robert ap Rice. my reading of the scholarship shows you are correct that William is Joan Otters son, It simp;ly did not compute with Henry of Newton being called a son Walter Rice. Therein is conflict and mystery. DCR

Dale C. Rice -- you are, alas, incorrect. I am even more confused.

William Apreece# This is the file we should all be working from and the Henry Rice of Newton inherits Dynevor. I was my assertion perhaps now out of date that Henry Rice of Newton was Elizabeth Latimer's son with William ap Rice 1522.

William Apreece#

This shows my linkage to Willam Prys and Robert Prys,

Not helping, really. Alas. Still confused.

Hi Dale C. Rice, I freely admit that this area is completely out of my knowledge zone but even after reading it multiple times, I am struggling to understand exactly what you are asking for.

Is it possible for you to put it really simply, with links?
ie xxx is currently on Geni as the son of yyy and zzz but he should be the son of aaa and bbb and the sources that support this are
1) ....
2) ....

That way we can understand what you want changed and then interested knowledgeable parties can add more sources and debate the change.

Here are a couple of good links for you, hope they help.

https://archives.library.wales/downloads/rhiwlas-estate-records.pdf

The Price family of Rhiwlas claim descent from a distinguished line of uchelwyr who settled in southwest Denbighshire. The family included Rhys ap Maredudd, alias Rhys Mawr, who fought for Henry Tudor at Bosworth in 1485. His son, Sir Robert ap Rhys became chaplain to Cardinal Wolsey and benefited greatly following the dissolution of the monasteries through the acquisition of land. It was Robert's third son, Cadwaladr, who actually settled at, and laid the foundation of the Rhiwlas estate during the second quarter of the sixteenth century. Much of the estate lands in Denbighshire and Flintshire were acquired by various members of the Price family through prudent marriages.

The Crown lands of Pentyrch, Gest, and Rhedynogfelen in Eifionydd, Caernarfonshire, on the other hand, had originally been purchased by Charles Jones, the younger brother of Sir William Jones of Castellmarch, but eventually by a fortuitous failing of more direct heirs, passed to Colonel William Price, son of Sir William's sister, Eleanor, wife of John Price of Rhiwlas. William Price II (1690-1774), grandson of Col. William Price married twice: firstly, Mary, daughter of Pryce Devereux, 9th Viscount Herefordshire, and secondly Elizabeth, daughter of Richard, Viscount Bulkeley, of Baron Hill, Anglesey. His eldest son, William Price III, died without issue in his father's
lifetime (there was no issue from the second marriage), and the estate passed to William's brother, Richard Price Thelwall (1720-1775). He was unmarried, but twenty years earlier he had fathered an illegitimate son in London, who was known by the name of Richard Tavistock Watkin. Richard Price Thelwall only lived to enjoy the benefits of his inheritance, the Rhiwlas estate, for a year, for he died in 1775 at the
age of fifty-five. Thelwall left the Rhiwlas estate to his natural son, Richard Tavistock Watkin, who became known as Richard Tavistock Price. He married the daughter of Richard Kenrick of Nantclwyd, Denbighshire, and borrowed heavily, mainly through mortgaging parts of the estate He was not to enjoy his inheritance for long, as he died at the age of thirty-nine years in 1794, leaving his encumbered estate in trust for his thirteen year old son, Richard Watkin Price.

Richard Watkin Price (1780-1860), married Frances, daughter of John Lloyd of Rhagad, near Corwen, heiress to the Rhiwaedog estate, Merioneth, through the will of Ann Sophia Iles, the last lineal descendant of the Lloyd family of Rhiwaedog. They had one son, Richard John Price, born in 1804. He married Charlotte, daughter of Edward Lloyd of Rhagad in 1837. However, he was to die in 1842, at the age of thirty-eight years. In the following year a posthumous son was born to Charlotte, named Richard
John Lloyd Price, who inherited the Rhiwlas estate at the age of seventeen years on the death of his grandfather, Richard Watkin Price, in 1860. He was a lifelong sportsman and lover of animals and something of an entrepreneur, with a highly developed sense of marketing. He wrote several books, and amongst his business ventures were the establishment of the Welsh Whisky Distillery at Fron-goch, and
the Rhiwlas Brush Works. He married Evelyn Gregge-Hopgood in 1869, and their son, Robert Kenrick Price was born the following year. He died in 1927.

SCOPE AND INTENT:

Rhiwlas estate records, [c. 1563], 1609-1888, including deeds, 1609-1888; rentals, 1796-1855; legal papers, [c. 1563], [c. 1632]-1847, including papers relating to a 19th century dispute about diverting the river Meloch; family and personal papers, 1631-1937, including family trust papers relating to the estate of Thomas Jones (d. 1819), rector of Derwen, Montgomeryshire, and brother-in-law of Richard Watkin Price; non-family trust papers relating to the estate of John Lloyd of Wigfair and Hafodunos; and letters, mainly from the first half of the 19th century, mainly to Richard Watkin Price.

Also, https://books.google.com/books?id=0a5BAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA2-PA99&...

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=0a5BAQAAMAAJ&rdi...

The last two links are to an old book that may be read for free on Google Books:

"Archaeologia Cambrensis: A Record of the Antiquities of Wales and Its Marches and the Journal of the Cambrian Archaeological Association" January 1, 1890, W. Pickering

Private User I can't tell from that if you are asking for changes to be made or providing information that matches to Geni (but I freely admit to being out of my knowledge area here)

If you are asking for changes, is it possible for you to put it really simply, with links?
ie xxx is currently on Geni as the son of yyy and zzz but he should be the son of aaa and bbb and the sources that support this are
1) ....
2) ....

I wasn't aware that research references [here on Dale's discussion thread] should "provide information that matches to Geni". Nor would I be able to tell you if the ones I linked about actually do provide information that matches to the work already done by Geni[, because you haven't specified which profiles you are concerned about providing support for.]

Hi Debra, that's the crux of the problem - we can't tell what changes Dale was suggesting. Because we can't understand what the change is, we are all struggling to assist Dale with his request.

Sorry, I thought that you must have understood what Dale was wanting and were either providing references to confirm his change or to disprove his suggested change. My misunderstanding.

As you can understand, with no clear request it is hard for curators (or knowledgeable users) to assist Dale

Leanne

Sir Walter Rice

Walter Rice daughtered out, his estate was left to Henry Rice of Newton. This does not show Henry Rice as his son. Henry Rice is the son of William ap rice and Elizabeth Lattimer? descend from Rhys ap Griffeth and unknown woman. That's as far I can take this perhaps you know how Henry ends up with Dynvore titles and estates? I can understand the land as a nephew at Robert Rice and Thomasine Minn-Mayll. But titles are supposed to revert back to the crown was my understanding. So Henry Rice of Newton inherits title and land so the Origional thought on my part was he was son of Rhys ap Griffeth ap Gruffed 1508 & Joan Otter his sister in law. As you can see he's 3rd cousin and I do want to nail this down for my family. thanks for whatever you can sleuth out about Henry Rice of Newton. DCR

https://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Sir-Walter-Rice...

I apologize for the tardy response as the previous thread was so discouraging that I fear to speak at all here. I am refreshed enough to clairify my thought on Henry Rice of Newton as Inheritor of Dynvore Titles Baron and Estates. History of Parliment on line shows him as son of Walter Rice, but that is not true. I'll leave it at that. DCR

Dale, Walter's sister was the mother of an Earl, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find some more history on this family.

Hi Dale,
Sorry I am still confused as to what you want us to do. I freely admit this is not my area of expertise.

This is what is on Geni currently for Sir Walter Rice
Sir Walter Rice (1562-1636)
Married Elizabeth Rice (no dates)
Had only 1 daughter Mary Button

You have said that he left his estate to a Henry Rice - Is there a profile for this Henry Rice currently on Geni? If so, are you able to provide me a link?

We do not have a profile entered in Geni for Henry Rice, son of Walter.

Details about him are here:

https://biography.wales/article/s-RICE-NEW-1500

I do not understand why Dale questions his parents.

I added Henry ‘the writer’ Rice, Esq. to Geni for you.

Thanks Erica

The various services who had entire blood line on Henry Rice son of Elizabeth Lattimer and William ap Rice 1522 may have changed over the last 4 years I'll see if I can bring up the sites which I was reciting my information for you. The question I am putting before GENI is why does a man inherit the Title of Baron of Dynevor when he is not a Blood descendant as we show him currently the son of Cousin Robert ap Rice and Thomassine Mynn-Mayall. Thanks DCR

There is not currently a Geni profile for anyone with the description:

Henry Rice, son of Robert ap Rice and Thomassine Mynn-Mayall

Dale,
Could you please add the URL of the profile that you are referring to so we can see what you are seeing.
Leanne

Ms Erica: The source Of my information was not Geni, It was an online service of the Rhys ap Thomas line. I'll see If I can bring it back because it clearly shows Henry as the inheritor of Dynvore Titles and as noted on the site you brought up it calls him "the next generation" It does not say he was the son of Walter Rice. Here is the hair I am Splitting: If he were the son of William 1522 the son of Minn-Mayall and Rhsy ap Gruffed 1508 then there would be a basis for him to inherit both land and titles. If he is the son of Robert Rice and Thomasine Minn-Myall he could inherit land but not the title. Therefore: He would have to be a son of Rhys not Robert. DCR