Rebecca Narcissus Brewer (unknown) - Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that Hester Anne Brewer's mom was 60 when she was born?

Lanier B Brewer, Jr. Shows a Y DNA test conflict that should be sorted. Notes in his profile are that he had 16 children by at least two wives, which children by which wife unknown. So filling in Biographical details on his profile would help with dating questions.

Rebecca Narcissa shows on Geni as “parents unknown,” she was disconnected as child of Oconostota 'Stalking Turkey' some time ago.

Lloyd Alfred Doss, Jr. I believe this is a Line for you - can you help?

To be totally honest with you, I am as frustrated as Sarah is with this entire Brewer tree.

I believe the NA/Indian Princess thing so many desire has totally destroyed this branch. Don Greene and his BS Shawnee Heritage fiction has fueled this and it is almost impossible to determine who goes where. That is the great thing and yet the curse of Geni, everyone can and does add/delete/edit whatever they feel like based on whatever they believe.

I will go in and work on trying to clean it up some but it is almost beyond help. The factual documentation is sketchy and a great deal is fictional with no valid documents for any of it. There are a few "good" Brewer websites that I use, ones I trust but most give people what they want, not the truth which is ultimately what we all should want.

As for the DNA end of it, ultimately that will spell out the truth, however that isn't my specialty and really a little late for me to try to understand all that goes along in that field. I trust it but barely understand all the markers and so forth related to it.

Sarah, you aren't the only one that heard the Cherokee princess stories, all us folk from the south have and only a few are true. Makes for good stories to children but the facts seldom bear it out. I heard the Indian blood stories from the time I was barely able to understand.

We have Cherokee historians such as Kathryn Forbes on board with us that share the facts and the truth but the abuse they take from NA "hunters" when the truth doesn't match the Princess stories keep her in the shadows. I truly feel sorry for her. We all want to believe these stories but the facts are the facts, maybe we do have NA background, but without something documented it is only a story.....

Sorry I rambled on, I'll try to work this as best I can, will take some time. Lloyd

Sorry, I called you Sarah, saw it was Sandra after I sent, my apologies.

There is little information on the early Brewer family, but they probably lived in Virginia (where the Cherokee never lived) before appearing late in the 18th century in Moore County, North Carolina, hundreds of miles from the Cherokee Nation. There is nothing to suggest that any member of this family had anything to do with any Native Americans. Oconostota died in the Cherokee Nation (now Tennessee) in 1783. He had only one known child, a son, and at the end of his life he was cared for by friends strongly suggesting that he had no living descendants.

Thank you for joining in Kathyrn, always appreciate your knowledge and honesty when it comes to these "at times, sensitive" issues. I truly believe in the future, this fact based honesty will be appreciated, as hard as it may seem to those of us that heard the "stories".

My theory on much of why these stories persist is as follows.

Most of my family (as so many others in the Appalachian region of America) were just dirt poor, uneducated but hard working Coal mine people. They are a huge part of how this country was built. But I think they likely worried that they would be forgotten in history unless they held onto and passed their stories, some true, many not so much. To a certain degree, it has worked, I can barely remember what I had for breakfast this morning but can remember like it was yesterday, sitting on my great grandmother's lap listening to the stories of long ago... Life was harder but in many regards much simpler then.

Another thing I read this morning on this Lanier Brewer Sr./Jr. and NA spouses are several references to the NA lineage (if it does exist) being "Tuckey Ho" or Tuckaho which was apparently an Algonquin term for I think "potato". Some say this group became the Lumbee.

I was reading about it at this link you had sent (Brewers who became Whites according to Y DNA).

http://www.brewer-family.org/genealogy/brewer/white-brewer-blog.php

It would seem to me that the White surname is from Jacob White Sr’s Mother.

The “Tuckyho” concubine could explain “Cherokee princess” stories.

Here is an example of the postings out there on this NA group. https://www.ancestry.com/boards/surnames.brewer/5662/mb.ashx

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=3000&...

An elderly descendant of Charity Brewer Kimbell, (daughter of George Brewer and Jane Butler) says her family was Tuckeyho, a branch of the Delaware tribe.

In the book The Hunters of Kentucky written by Ted Franklin Belue, it has that in frontier slang, Tuckeyho meant Virginian.

Looks like the Lanier Brewer lines are Y DNA Haplogroup I-Y23708

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/BrewerDNA?iframe=yresults

So we should be able to fix Geni tree with this info.

“Present day Lumbee Tribe were also in the area at that time ( Moore County, N.C. ). The Lumbee`s are now a recognized tribe, after many years of applications and name changes. They were connected to the Cherokee and Algonquin tribes. So, therefore, i believe there is merit to this story/rumor of Lanier, Jr Brewer and his so-clled " tucky-hoe " concubine. Present and future research may still find the true answer.”

—-

Honestly,I’m tending to buy this story, but wondering if there is descent. It would be recent enough to show in DNA testing, and I also think it possible for children of other wives to show as children of other wives.

Where does this name come from ?

Nyoka Mary Brewer

The Y DNA mismatch tracks to Lanier Brewer, Sr. &
Oliver Lanier Brewer, Sr

I’ve disconnected Oliver.

The Lumbee are a tri-racial group, origins uncertain, but believed to be formed from remnants of small North Carolina tribes who were joined by formerly enslaved people and disaffected whites in the early 1800’s. They have lost any language and culture from their long-ago Native ancestors and in recent times have adopted cultural practices of existing tribes. They were never connected to the Cherokee. The State of North Carolina erroneously called them Cherokee for a period of time. There is no reason to think there is a connection between the Lumbee of Robeson County and the Lanier family in Moore county. The Lumbee survived by keeping to themselves, apart from white communities; they are well-documented, having maintained their own schools and churches for many years.

http://www.manteeth.com/mantooth/mantooth5i.html

THE DESCENDENTS OF

"CHEROKEE TOM" AND ELIZABETH PHARISS MAN-TOOTH

—-

Clevenger & Sisk - 2 West VA families Lloyd Doss & I affiliate with - are in this tree.

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I think the Mantooth woman in the Brewer tree is time traveling. I see:

G. William Manon Mantooth J (1846/47- m. c. 1866 Mary Jane Runyan, sister of Joseph Manning Runyand and dau of Rodman and Elizabeth Burke Runyan. Lived in Oil Trough and Newport, Ark. 1880 cen and Rebecca Haden per Maryellen Sisson Leachman.

10. Niother or Nyoka Mantooth
m. Brewer
11. Mary Mantooth
m. 10 Fitzhugh
2) William Brewer
Note: Mary and Nyoka may be the same person

To Lloyd Alfred Doss, I accept your apology. I know it gets confusing on here sometimes. I have been called several names in the past starting with an S so I just over look it and understand we all make those kinds of name mistakes. To all the people who have responded, I appreciate your input and am glad to know the Rebecca Narcissa name has been disconnected.

I have read a lot of documentation regarding the Lanier surname but when it comes to the Brewer/Lanier connection it seems to just state the marriage and then kind of skipped over as if no one seems to care. I understand that those DNA tests called the Y-DNA test for the male side of the family so since I am a female that type of test doesn't work, however, I have a son and was wondering if any of his DNA would show anything through my line or only just to his father's line. I have done the Ancestry and 23&Me DNA tests and had my mom do hers only on Ancestry but neither one of those goes into the specific family lines. They just give generalities. So, I wasn't sure if having my son take a test would be beneficial toward helping me to determine more about my personal lines. Does anyone want to comment on that?

I have contacted Brewer line relatives who have done the Ancestry DNA but I think the majority of them are always from a brother of my connection. Not my direct connection. I am an only child so I don't have any male brothers and the majority of my male cousins who might be able to connect something to my Brewer/Lanier line won't participate. They aren't interested and they live very far away from me. If I were able to talk one into taking a test for the Y-DNA type that would show our specific line as opposed to the type I have taken that mostly just shows ethnicity, where would I tell them to get a kit? Since our immediate surname is Kidd, would they get that kit or if I am trying to get the Brewer/Lanier connection would I tell them to go to Brewer instead of Lanier since it was a female who married into the Brewer family.(Sarah Lanier married George Brewer). Would a test for women if I took it to try and see a Lanier connection work or will it only show my mother's line? It confuses me somewhat how these different tests work. Thank you in advance to anyone who wants to try and answer some of my questions. Sandra Kidd

MtDNA = Mother > Mother > Mother ...
Y DNA = father > father > father ...
atDNA = either, matches to any family within 5 gens or so

So you need atDNA and the “oldest” people you can get to test are the most useful for genealogy.

I used ftDNA, it’s a free link from test results to the Geni tree.

I am direct from George Brewer and Sarah Lanier. I am saddened by this Discussion.

What so many do not readily understand is that the DNA companies will admit that they are as yet unable to specifically test for NA...Andean peoples, yes; North American? Not so much.
Never take a DNA test "believing" to find ethnicity... too many children of mixed heritage can tell you that inheritable traits are NOT passed down 50/50. And Blood Quantrum is a lie.
There are those who are self-professed "experts" who will claim to know every single Native American ever born on this continent, especially within the confines of the time frame known as British America. All I will say is that at ONE time, all of British America/Colonial America was "Virginia"...
I have weighed in on Discussion groups too many times and should "know better" by now but this "conversation" has made me second guess myself...when "challenged" with the harsh words and the accusation that folks just don't care?, well..that is really rich and simply smacks of a temper tantrum. My paternal grandfather was an only child. I barely knew him because my father was career military and let me tell you that when one parent serves, the entire family serves. We ALL sacrifice. ONE of the many sacrifices is in never owning a home or maybe never inheriting family items such as Bibles, photographs, etc. What I DID inherit is a DEEP love for family and I inherited DNA from both parents. I may not be able to share old family stories or photographs with you but I have my DNA and THAT trumps your paper trail any day of the week.
My father was very close to his family...many of whom I never met. I pay homage to them; I try to bring HONOR to them in what I do. I am stubborn and outspoken but I SPEAK for them who have no voice. My daddy said his daddy said that he was so lonely being an only child...Once, many years ago and before home computers, a distant cousin who lived in an ancestral town and was also researching our genealogy informed me that Theodore Hicks NEVER had any children. Well, that was JUST wrong as can be. My ONLY CHILD grandfather was the only known legitimate child of Theodore.
I believe in "never say never" and as I am descended from more than ONE generation of Missourians, I need you to "SHOW ME".
My dead-end Brewer at this time is Mary Louisa Short who married Nimrod Brewer and she is said to be Cherokee or Blackfoot Indian.
Most researchers who truly have Native American and or African American ancestry will tell you...takes more than a paper trail to find our ancestors.

And it was Erica Howton who helped sort out some of my line so I do very much appreciate the hard work and the emotion that goes with genealogy. I am just "over" the generalizations. I am especially "over" folks thinking that ALL Native Americans are Cherokee, like all soda is Coca-Cola...and the philosophy that folks hid their lineage because they were ashamed or did not want to be anything other than what they were...Fact is, many of them just wanted to survive and live in peace and see their children grow up. The Trail of Tears is named for a reason. My DNA holds their secrets and I am proud they survived. Doesn't mean they did not exist. I AM living proof that they did. You won't see the trace DNA from ten generations and more ago on my AncestryDNA but it is still visible on my 23&me and my OLD AncestryDNA results and I can "paint" an Admixture on gedmatch....It is visible and PLAIN as day to the folks I X chromosome match and in the the proven individuals who link me to my African and Native American and East Indies/Indian and Jewish ancestors. This little hobby we have of finding them is quite interesting but it is SCIENCE that has brought bad people to justice and identified Jane and John Doe's many times over. I am NEVER happy to see a line cut but it is rather a relief when I NOW that the act is making room for a correct path to present itself. Collaboration has broken down MANY walls for me... I am THE family historian for my parents. I have many first cousins that I have not even met but I KNOW that MY brick wall is someone else's ancestral great aunt or whatever and THEY have the missing piece of the puzzle. I try to help others find theirs because I KNOW how difficult it has been to find mine. Blood, sweat and tears. Today, it is just sheer will and stubborn determination. I come from Warriors. And Care-givers. All colors and creeds.
Coincidentally, I just heard from a DNA cousin who says she is descended from Rebecca Narcissa and I just had to laugh and shake my head because we all now that TIMING IS EVERYTHING.
Hang in there, Ms Kidd...you may just find your Native American ancestry in the end.

*KNOW, not NOW
:/

Hi--
I have a quick question. I'm back to doing genealogy research. My 3rd Great Grandmother is Hester Ann Brewer. She is "according to family history" one of the 3 daughters of Lanier Brewer, Jr. and a lady named Rebecca/Narcissa/Narcises/Nerissa/Narcissus (my 4th great grandmother). I've seen so many different spellings of her name. She was born most likely in 1746 (some say 1740). She died around 10/23/1834 (or 1887/88) in Franklin, Heard County, Ga. She supposed married Lanier in 1768 in Virginia. She would have been around 54 at the time of Hester Ann's birth. According to family history Lanier also had 2 wives and a concubine all of which bore him 30 sons and 3 daughters. I have been unable to find a death certificate for Hester Ann Brewer who married Big Bradley Brady and died between 1880 and 1900 in Ritters, Moore Co., NC. Her husband was buried in the Brady family cemetery in Moore County. I have also been unable to find a death certificate for Rebecca/Narcissa Brewer either. Any insight or help would be greatly be appreciated. Thanks for your help in advance. Audrey

I’m not sure about Rebecca Narcissus Beaver Brewer’s actual parentage but a lot of Native kids were adopted by other members of the tribe when their parents died. Also there were multiple marriages and Native Concubines amongst the white settlers and Native women. Big families of mine yours and ours. Finding actual records is difficult especially in the Native populations. Phonetic spellings, misspelled or middle names not entered only initials, deaths unrecorded by the military on the trail of tears or Native Americans passing as white so they could earn a living. We have a lot to answer for in our treatment of Native Populations in our past.

I can't speak to the tree on this website, but I know the paper tree that I have is accurate up to Hester Ann Brewer. All the paperwork I have seen to date seem to support that Lanier Brewer, Jr. is her father. Because he was a trapper/trader he traveled in many different areas, which exposed him to a variety of people. Therefore, I carefully consider all the information and track it down to evaluate it. I have kept Rebecca Narises as a place holder for her mother because I there is a great deal of contradictory information. The same goes for the mothers of all the boys. Because he had multiple wives and concubines records are sketch, especially with the concubines. According to some of the family stories she was close to her brother George than moved to TN although there was a big age difference. It seems as if each time Lanier married or took a concubine, he started a new family.