Captain Thomas Harris, Ancient Planter - https://www.geni.com/people/Captain-Thomas-Harris-Ancient-Planter/6000000000833949256?through=6000000016475896282#/tab/discussion

There was been ongoing research since 2000 by our harrisline group in Aylesbury Parish England since James Phil Harris discovered the 1621 Passenger Manifest of the voyage of the Marmaduke. The only Adri\a/Audrey listed was am Adria HOARE from Aylesbury Parish. Phil gave this and other data to John Frederick Dorman who published it in his Adventurers of Purse and Persons. Later it wass discovered that hald of the other 1624 male Muster inhabitants also had roots in Aylesbury. The parents and siblings of this Ardria Hoare have long been published including the 16727 Will of her father Thomas Hoare bequeathing money to Mary Harris daughter of his Mary Harris in England. aIf you are basing any lineage on the old Ligon Family books published decades ago then you should rethink your lineage as that in these Ligon histories is bogus. Parent for this Capt Thomas Harris have tentatively been found in the Aylesbury Parish Registers, but until further verification is found, it will not be forwarded to m\Mr Dorman for publication as there are two sets of christening records for a Thomas Harris c1585 with different sets of parents.

Thank you for the information. I’ve never read the Ligon Family genealogy books published decades ago nor would we base our lineage on a published book ! We based our information on court documents, church baptism/ confirmation records, census records, marriage records, Family Bibles......

All of my lineages have been carefully documented, not by single published genealogy books that tend to be challenged in the future and I’ve found personally at times with errors. Fortunately, my family kept excellent records over the generations, a few of my lineages did have published books, but we didn’t base everything on the books even though they had the court records, etc. included the the publications.

So, are you insinuating that Mary Harris Ligon didn’t marry Col. Thomas Ligon, III ? I’m not understanding what you are trying to communicate?

Thomas Harris was a common name and without a middle name to distinguish one from another, there would be no definitive proof. What I was trying to say is it was a mystery to me, such a well documented person that they didn’t keep records of his parents.

Has anyone read JAMESTOWN BRIDES published late 2018 in yhe U.K. We are fortunate enough that more is known about Audry/ Adria Hoare Harris than most of the colonists. Suzann, there have been wars in both Englqnd and the colonies/U.S. in which documents were destroyed. And in any country at any time there are also people who do not wish to be found(he couldnhave well been a scoundrel...lol .Unfortunately, my family history was lost. I have been able to reconstruct much if it from Virginia Chancery Court Records, online, much if it through the female side. DNA has also helped confirm some of the relatiins thanks to Glenn Gohr and the Harris family Group 8 yahoi group.

I find that I am extremely fortunate as I am doubly desceded from Thomas and Adry/Adria Harris through their son and daughter, when Obediah HarrisSr, married his distant cousin, Elizabeth Watkins, daughter of Phoebe Watkins Wat,kins and Silas Watkins (who were in turn, distant cousins of eachother via dedcendants 8f the Quaker, Henry Watkins.)

In Jamestown Brides, the author speculates that, our progenitor, Capt, Thos, Harris, was quite possibly was a workman sent over with Sir Thomas Dake and freed upon hus return to England. She , being the autoir, does refer to the possibility of Capt. Thomas connecting with the Aylesbury Hoares, Woodliffes etc. We probably will never know

Oops, forgive me I'm porting this from a 7" tablet and my fingers are fatter than the letters. I meant SIR THOMAS DALE., not Dake.

Hello my 7th cousin through the Hudson \ Harris lineages via Obediah Harris Sr, marriage of a distant cousin Elizabeth Watkins . We’re linked though my maternal Lancaster/Hudson / Harris lineage.

Thank you for the great information , I haven’t read “Jamestown Brides “ published late 2018 in the Uk sounds interesting. Is it available on Amazon or Barnes & Noble?

I’ll just make a general comment about English ancestry for the Harris arrivers to the Colony. (Different families.)

In short: they’ve been a right mess. Tons of speculation and wrong pedigrees.

Tom King has been involved with sorting them out for many years, and there’s still “breaking news” from the world of DNA studies.

Harris is one of those names ...

I never implied the Capt Thomas Harris daughter Mary Harris didn't marry Thomas Ligon. Suzan has evidently read into my message something I didn't say. I had been determined that his wife Adrian Hoare was from Aylesbury, as was HER kinswoman Ann Woodliefe and half of the other male inhabitants of the 1624 Muster were also descended from Aylesbyr Parish famlies. hat is why we started conducting research in the extant Alesbury Parish records for traces of a Thomas Harris, At least two records have been found of two separate Thomas Harris christenings c1585, with different parents.so further research is still ongoing.

Thank you for your information and research.

I have full sequence mtDNA FTDNA and two of my maternal first cousins YDNA for what it’s worth. Like everyone in America I have Harris lineage in my maternal and paternal lineage, but appears to be from complete different lineages.

Suzan, can't remember where I got JAMESTOWN BRIDES from. It may be available in the U, S, by now. Sorry. Just google it and let the cyber gods guide you, lol.

I'm currenntly waiting for DAUGHTERS OF CHIVALRY: the unknown children of Edward I to arrive via Amazon,.uk. Have had some problems getting it. Originally ordered on 4/7 &t WAS due 4/25 and Amazon FINALLY reordered it last Saturday.

Erica, thank you for your input. I've got at least one other mess, this one being a Long Island Loyalist..,,..don't we all.

I think it's really exciting to ponder (that's about all I can do since I can't afford to travel) a possible Aylesbury connection to our scoundrel-ish progenitofr, Thomas Harris. I thsnk Tom King, Glenn Gohr and all the Harris family researchers giving of their time and sharing with the rst if us!

Tom King and the other researchers have spent quite a bit of time and it’s much appreciated. It nice when their knowledge is shared with us. Many lineages may end with a brick wall unless there is a way DNA can prove the lineage, that can be difficult. We have a few in my family.

Roberta, thank you about letting me know about the books, will google them and check Amazon. What part of the UK do you live , I lived in The Midlands area, several years back, when I lived in a few European Countries. I’m planning a trip next year for a bit of family time and research.

FYI, the latest European Union regulations on non disclosure of DNA data has required that Glenn Gohr remove all of his harrisdnaresults pages with its specific pages of lineages from the kit submitters of 70+ Harris DNA Groups and remove the combined Gedcom he made of these lineages that were posted on RootsWeb World Connect web pages. This has left our hands tied trying to determine exactly which line one belongs to, especially many of us that have relations to many different Harris DNA Group. I descend from 2 different Group 4 progenitors and another that daughtered out by 1700, and have direct lines to Groups 6 and 8. and possibly 12 and 30. And as Bennett Greenspan, CEO of Family Tree DNA, states every year at our annual Genetic Conference, DNA CANNOT PROVE ANYTHING, it can only verify that a kit submitters DNA msrker values are the same as a distant ancestor with X generations, The proof of ancestry lies on the documentation of each generation back to this progenitor. The claimed progenitor of many of the yDNA kit submitters has been proven false by documentation.

Private User I think it's both DNA and a balance of documentation don't you? I find it disappointing the European Union regulations on nondisclosure of DNA data required the removal of the Harris DNA Results, I thought the projects I’m in I gave disclosure rights. At times the EU really get in the way of progress!

Has Glenn Gohr figured a way around them for the future?

Bah humbug to the EU thoughts that the kit submitters have been proven false by documentation! They should back that statement up with documentation. Have they shown the documentation?

Thank you, Tom for the report!

I have few different Harris lineages paternal and maternal. It’s a common name. I have full sequence mtDNA and several of my maternal cousins have YDNA on FTDNA full sequence testing. I can’t convince my brother to test with them, he says since our lineages crossed maternal and paternal and our cousin’s have tested, it would be a waste of time for him. I’m also trying to get my paternal cousin’s to test.

It is not the EU thoughts that kit submitters have been proven false, IT IS MY OWN RESEARCH AS LEAD RESEARCHER FOR GROUP 4 THAT HAS DISPROVEN THE LINEAGES CLAIMED BY MANY OF THESE SUBMITTERS., Some of these corrected lineages I sent to Glenn Gohr some I only shared with the original submitters. Gleen has no options that the EU Regulations require no identification of kit number, its submiiter, his CLAIMED lineage, DNA marker values, Haplo Group or Claimed Progenitor or last identifies ancestor, This can only be disclosed by the individua kit submitter, FTDNA can only disclose the Kit number, marker and Haplo values and progenitor for only those you granted their express permission for this data to be posted since January 2019. At least 20 of our 70+ Group 4 submitters have chosen to opp.out of this disclosure. FTDNA will still provide matches and contact email addresses to those remaining kit submitters ONLY.

Since you do not have a direct male lineage to Kimball Buckner nor direct female linege to his wife Martha Harris,neither paternal yDNA or maternal mtDNA testing will do you any good. And since this couple is 8-9 generations back, the Family Finder or Ancestry autosomal test would produce no accurate Buckner or Harris genetic matches. Your lineage to Thomas Harris d1688 is accurate and that is as far as this Harris line can be documented, I've tried for over 55 years to extend it with no success. The yDNA marker values prove that there is no relation to Sgt John Harris of Charles City or his royal Harris Crixie England family. .

The 1627 Aylesbury Will of Adria's father Thomas Hoare, gave a small bequest of money to his granddaughter Mary Harris,daughter of his daughter Adria in Virginia, his is the Mary Harris that married Thomas Ligon. The European Union reguations also FTDNA wiped out our Crispin Cousins website and usergroup that were tryiing to extent the FTDNA Harris Group back into pre Norman Conquest families.