Mary, mother of Jesus - why isnt mary when i pin her the 1 st cousin of elizabeth they are way off

Because Mary's parents are unknown. Please consult the profile and Discussions for further info.

Mary and Elizabeth were cousins .. how far apart is another thing ..

Sharon Lee Doubell ... Anna of Arimathea was a cousin to Mary. (mother of Jesus) in this way... Anna's father was Joseph of Arimathea the man who assumed responsibility for the burial of Jesus after his crucifixion. He was the brother of Joachim (Mary's father) son Matthat who was son of Levi. Joachim whom you say was not Mary's father actually was according to many other sources that you blindly refuse to post. Joachim was married to Anne (Mary's mother ) Anne was sister to Sobe ( Zoia) . Sobe was mother of Elizabeth. Elizabeth being mother of John the Baptist. Therefore making Anna a cousin to Mary PLUS making John and Jesus cousins! Do you get it now ?

Sharon Lee Doubell ... Anna of Arimathea was a cousin to Mary. (mother of Jesus) in this way... Anna's father was Joseph of Arimathea the man who assumed responsibility for the burial of Jesus after his crucifixion. He was the brother of Joachim (Mary's father) son Matthat who was son of Levi. Joachim whom you say was not Mary's father actually was according to many other sources that you blindly refuse to post. Joachim was married to Anne (Mary's mother ) Anne was sister to Sobe ( Zoia) . Sobe was mother of Elizabeth. Elizabeth being mother of John the Baptist. Therefore making Anna a cousin to Mary PLUS making John and Jesus cousins! Do you get it now ?

Please post your primary sources

can you not look it up yourself? but yes i can post them if you wish it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beli_Mawr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_mother_of_Jesus
https://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/joseph-of-arimathea-faq.htm
http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/articles/josanc.html
http://www-di.inf.puc-rio.br/~furtado/Joseph%20of%20Arimathia.pdf
The son of Matthias
'Josephus' or, at full length, 'Flavius Josephus', was not his original name, but a Latinized form
of 'Joseph', adopted after he rose in favour with Vespasian and Titus, born of the Flavian
family. According to Jewish custom, Joseph's name was complemented with that of his father,
Matthias, joined by the particle 'ben' (son of) in Hebrew, or by the Aramaic form, 'bar', then
more widely used.
We are now in a position to formulate the thesis of this work:
o Joseph of Arimathia was the man confined to prison. But he who was freed was Joseph
son of Matthias...
https://d.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/text/history-of-that-holy-disci...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim aka Heli
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heli_(biblical_figure) aka Joachim
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Anne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_and_Child_with_Saint_Anne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobe_(sister_of_Saint_Anne)

I could loud this About me tab with many many more links, but I think you'll get the general hint after reading the few i have posted. It will be clearer just how how " Anne is the cousin to Mary"

I hope this helps Use this information (or not) makes no difference to me. I just wanted to answer a few questions some members might have about the Genealogy of Jesus etc..

Please see our project on sources: https://www.geni.com/projects/Working-with-sources/18201

Primary sources, which are the most trusted ones, are written at the time of the event, like the priest writing a baptism in a churchbook; or a firsthand account by someone who knew the person.

See also:https://www.geni.com/projects/Jesus-Ancestors/134 and https://www.geni.com/projects/Jesus-of-Nazareth-Speculative-Genealo...

Sharon Lee Doubell I have seen what you've done on this site. I have to tell you i am not a fan.

her is Saint Joachim ben Matthan whom I am saying was Mary's father he is listed on Geni by you to be the brother of Brother of Saint Joseph of Arimathea; Heli ben Matat and Bianca BTW why is he a "saint again? Saint Joachim

His wife "Hannah / Anna "Hannah / Anna

within her profile you have a link (one of many) saying her was the mother of Mary https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01538a.htm

on top of that you have Heli ben Matat father of "Maria" Husband of Hannah / Anna and Saint Anne / Hanna hHeli ben Matat

my question to you is first. Why have doubles of the same people eg. Hannah / Anna and Saint Anne / Hanna ? They are the same person. in biblical studies.

secondly if you will notice both Heli ben Matat and Saint Joachim ben Matthan are bothers once again they are the same person . The difference being "Heli " is from the old testament whereas Joachim is from the new gospel. But indeed many biblical scholars believe them to be the same person.

So why the confusion on the tree? You have Heli and saint Anna as the mother of "Maria" May I ask who this Maria is in the bible?

Could it be that Maria and Mary are the same person also? After all there is 3 Maria's mentioned in the bible.

Geni has "Escha" as the Daughter of Saint Joachim and Hannah / Anna
Wife of Ptolas.... the truth of the matter is Melcha or Escha/ was mentioned as Joseph's first wife. Mary mother of Jesus being his second wife.

So I am really confused here, This site is contradicting its self all over the place . I personally don't think any of the curators that run and maintain this part of the tree really don't know what they're taking about or doing.

Now this is interesting Jehoiakim Elyakim, 17th King of Judah
Husband of Nehusta . and Anna / Hannah . Jehoiakim Elyakim, 17th King of Judah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoiakim#:~:text=Jehoiakim%2C%20also....
Reign 609–598 BC

His wife Anna / Hannah Sister of Sobe or Esmeria Why one more Anna / Hannah "She is not merged with St. Anne the mother of St. Mary because of doubt about whether they were the same person." ... Hello ...yes they are!

There is no way his wife was Anna / Hannah Sister of Sobe or Esmeria do the math!

Now its in the bible that St. Anne was the sister of Sobe (mother of Saint Elizabeth who in turn was mother of John the Baptist.

Sobe (sister of Saint Anne) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobe_(sister_of_Saint_Anne)
Saint Anne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Anne
Mary, mother of Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_mother_of_Jesus
(Parent(s)unknown; according to some apocryphal writings: Joachim and Anne

Joachim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim Father of the Blessed Virgin Mary ... HINT to the curator , that's why he became a " saint." same can be said for his wife Anne AKA Saint Anne

WOW ...........if I was confused before I really am now. This really does confirm you curators don't know the bible and have no idea what your taking about or doing. You have all rewritten the bible LMAO good job! I am glad my tree doesn't connect to this rubbish part of the geni site.

Laurie Lynn Brockbank -- since you linked to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beli_Mawr, I thought as the main curator working in the Welsh medieval tree, I would explain how the sources are working there.

As Wikipedia says, some medieval genealogies link Beli Mawr into the Biblical tree.

(Here he is on Geni)

What that means is NOT that Beli Mawr, who is actually the Welsh Sun God, is tied into the Biblical tree. It means that there are medieval genealogies which connect him; they are doing that because the goal of the genealogies at that time was not just to catalog whatever noble line they were dealing with, but also to connect that noble line to the deities -- very often Beli Mawr gets involved -- and then, in order to further enoble the line, connect the Welsh deities to the Biblical line.

When we are dealing with ancient sources, we are of course most interested in sources which are written close to the time that we are dealing with. But we also have to take into account the audience that the source was written for, the author who compiled it and what his (usually) intents were, the context in which it was written, and, if it's been copied over and over before it gets to us, what kinds of changes might have taken place.

At any rate.

that is why, on Geni, Beli Mawr is not connected to the Biblical lines, even though some of the Welsh medieval genealogies connect him.

Ha! My Beli Mawr link didn't get put in, apparently -- Beli Mawr "The Great", {Fictitious, Mabinogion}

Thanks Anne. Just a headsup Laurie that I won't be responding to your vitriol.

Anne Brannen you say Beli Mawr "The Great", was {Fictitious, Mabinogion}? I read on that link that there was 2 " Beli Mawr" and "Belenus" a sun god from Celtic mythology.. Is it psible that you are combining the 2 as the same person? I a assuming this because of the Picture that is used on Beli Mawr "The Great" profile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belenus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beli_Mawr

List of legendary kings of Britain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_kings_of_Britain

scroll down to "Heli (40 years)" aka Beli Mawr

I also found Heli aka Beli Mawr"s father was Digueillus later renamed to Manogan Ap Capoir a legendary king of the Brythons

"""Beli son of Manogan
Another Beli from medieval Welsh literature, who first appears in the 9th century Historia Brittonum and is often confused or conflated with Beli Mawr in both medieval and modern sources, is Beli son of Manogan (also spelled Mynogan). This Beli is actually derived from the historical pre-Roman Brittonic king of the Catuvellauni, Cunobeline and his son Adminius (or Amminius). Via a series of textual corruptions that span several different popular books from Late Antiquity and the early Middle Ages, the names of Cunobelinus and his son Adminius were combined and then jumbled, giving way to a new Beli, with the patronymic "son of Manogan""""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digueillus

Digueillus (also Cligueillus or Eligueillus; Welsh: Llefelys) was a legendary king of the Brythons according to Geoffrey of Monmouth. He was the son of King Capoir and succeeded by his son Heli. Geoffrey portrays him as a wise and modest ruler who cared greatly about the administration of justice among the Brythons.

so I am assuming that this is the ancestors of Beli Mawr ("Beli the Great") aka Heli

Capoir a legendary king of the Britons as accounted by Geoffrey of Monmouth.
Digueillus son of Capoir a legendary king of the Brythons according to Geoffrey of Monmouth
Beli Mawr ("Beli the Great") aka Heli

Geoffrey of Monmouth's history Historia Regum Britanniae (1130s) as the British king Heli, son of Digueillus and father of Lud, Cassivellaunus and Nennius. He is said to have held the throne for 40 years, after which he was succeeded by his son Lud (Llud).[9] In the Middle Welsh translations of Geoffrey's work known collectively as Brut y Brenhinedd, Heli's name was restored to Beli[10] and his father renamed to Manogan.

Sharon Lee Doubell "Just a headsup Laurie that I won't be responding to your vitriol."

Don't worry I am not offended in the lest . it's most understandable being that you obviously haven't got a clue what your doing. I would much prefer discussing this with Anne Brannen anyway.

I suffer no harsh feeling towards you Sharon. I am trying to share what I found to better this site. But if you prefer to leave the tree as is , again I don't care.one way or another.

Anne maybe you can also she3d light on this matter

Husband of Nehusta . and Anna / Hannah . Jehoiakim Elyakim, 17th King of Judah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoiakim#:~:text=Jehoiakim%2C%20also....
Reign 609–598 BC

I really cant understand how "Anna / Hannah"
Birth: estimated between 49 BCE and 11 who comes up on the tree as sister to Sobe or Esmeria (like I've already pointed out BTW in my original post in this discussion)
Birth: estimated before 8 BCE

there is over well over 500 years different in age between Anna / Hannah and her alleged husband Jehoiakim How can this be possible?

King Jechoniah, 18th King of Judah

May I suggest removing Anna / Hannah as his wife? It would improve the tree immensely if this was done, don't you agree? Considering the wiki. web site doesn't even mention a wife of Jechoniah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoiakim#:

sorry I postd the wrong link Jehoiakim Elyakim, 17th King of Judah

his wife Anna / Hannah .

Note Curated by: Sharon Lee Doubell
This is the Master Profile for Anna / Hannah ..
Curator Note from Justin Swanstrom (2/15/2013):
She is not merged with St. Anne the mother of St. Mary because of doubt about whether they were the same person.

Was this Justin person joking? its not possible to connect St. Anne the mother of St. Mary aka Anna / Hannah .because she was NEVER the wife of Jehoiakim Elyakim, 17th King of Judah

Laurie Lynn Brockbank -- the pictures in those profiles aren't ones I put in, but I will take care of things. Thanks.

Oh, but I may have misunderstood your question.

Beli Mawr was a sun god.

Belenus is simply another name for him, in Latin rather than Welsh.

Geoffrey of Monmouth's Heli is fictitious (as is most of Geoffrey's early history, alas).

Beli became a name amongst the Welsh, so there were Welshmen named Beli.

Thank you Anne Brannen

Laurie Lynn Brockbank — oh, and I should add that alas I am not able to help at all with the Biblical tree questions. Medieval, all 1000 years, Northern Europe. I can do that. Though I mostly stay out of the Scandinavian tree except when it intersects with the Scots.

Just to straighten out some facts. Heli ben Matthat is not from the Old Testament. He appears only in Luke 3:23, where he is named as the father of Joseph, not Mary.

The idea that he was Mary's father really is a much later invention. It was a contrivance to deal with the problem that Joseph has different genealogies in different gospels. It's not the only way. Other contrivances are available.

Joachim and Anne are not in the Bible at all. They come from a junk-scripture, called the Protevangelium of James (but not really by St. James). No Church accepts this book as factual and authoritative.

All the same, it inspired some of the non-scriptural teachings of the Roman Church. These teachings are not accepted by the Eastern Churches, or by Protestants.

So we have the problem that Joachim and Anne, as the parents of Mary, are supported only by the say-so of the Roman Church, which found them in a source that it regards as erroneous and unreliable.

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08406b.htm

One of the confusions is that the Biblical Heli and the Heli who is a version of the Welsh Beli get confused and conflated. I figure that’s how I got involved in this discussion.

So I did some very minor clean-up.

Laurie Lynn Brockbank, it was the "right" Anne, but the wrong Joachim. So I disconnected the king, and added a new Joachim . profile instead.

I have also uploaded the "Gospel of James" as a source for these two profiles.

Brian Johnson The line given in Luke is actually for Mary, and in the original languages it refers to Joseph as Jesus's adoptive father. The line of Joseph goes back through Solomon, but that line could not provide the Messiah as it was cursed. Mary's line goes back through Nathan to provide the Messiah as free from that curse. But, in Jewish law at that time, an adopted son inherited from the adoptive father, and in this case, since all of Joseph's other sons came after, Jesus was qualified as the rightful King of Israel.
So Josephs' line provide the King, while Mary's line provides the Messiah.

The original language is Koine Greek, and we have the Greek text. There's nothing lost in translation. There's no mention of adoption.

Obviously it's quite clear that Joseph isn't being presented as the biological father of Jesus. The virginity of Mary has already been established.

But the question is Heli's relationship to Joseph.

The New Testament contains elements of 5 different styles of Greek, and Aramaic , as well as some Hebrew idioms. I neglected to say that it referred to Joseph as a son-in-law of Heli. At least that is the way it has been presented by Greek scholars that I am familiar with. And it adequately explains the two lineages of Jesus.

No sorry, the Greek does not say that Joseph was a son-in-law of Heli.