Andrew Winter - The Winter of our discontent

Erica Howton, this sounds like it might be up your alley.

Another noteworthy question is who Andreas's wife was.

@Erica Howton, just checking if there's a difference between tagging and mentioning by ID.

Either works to Notify me so I can say “I don’t know.”

The @ sign can be finicky so I more often use copy / paste from the browser bar.

I can tell you where your Ancestry.com search leads: a book they do not have.

BERKS COUNTY PA NATURALIZATIONS. In Journal of the Berks County Genealogical Society (Reading, PA), vol. 8:4 (Jan.-Feb. 1988), pp. 44-49 (1752-1764); vol. 8:5 (Mar.-Apr. 1988), pp. 61-65 (1765-1772).

Extracted from Naturalization of Foreign Protestants in the American and West Indian Colonies, pursuant to Statute 13, George II, c. 7 (see no. 2564 indexed in PILI 1983). This book is among the holdings of the Berks County Genealogical Society library.

A clue.

Justina Margareta had sponsors for her baptism: Simon Muench & Justina Margaretha Sprecht.

Source: Early Lutheran Baptisms and Marriages in Southeastern Pennsylvania. Philadelphia, PA, USA: n.p., 1896.

The records were kept largely by Rev. John Casper Stoever.

Records of Rev. John Casper Stoever : baptismal and marriage, 1730-1779
Author Stoever, Johann Casper, 1707-1779,Schantz, F. J. F. (Franklin Jakob Fogel)

https://archive.org/details/recordsofrevjohn01stoe/page/n6

https://archive.org/details/recordsofrevjohn01stoe/page/43 The only Winter he had a record on, which is another clue.

https://archive.org/details/recordsofrevjohn01stoe/page/44 Another mention of Simon Muench.

Here are a couple of Specht’s getting baptized

https://books.google.com/books?id=54amMIKBRQEC&lpg=PA43&ots...

Here’s the Martin Specht family

http://madmotors.com/genealogy/database/fam/fam00998.htm

Specht Arrival in this book (Andreas Winter is not listed)

https://books.google.com/books?id=eDPzQzKdL8QC&lpg=PA184&ot...

German Immigrants: Lists of Passengers Bound from Bremen to New ..., Volume 3
By Gary J. Zimmerman

Ok, to summarize:
(1) The Spechts came from Asch (or at least Justina Margaretha did).
(2) Probably Andreas's first daughter was named after Justina Margaretha Specht, which implies he knew the family well. Perhaps his wife was a sister? If so, he too would have come from around Asch.
(3) Simon Muench seems to have been a brother of George Muench; not sure what that does for us yet.
(4) Martin Specht didn't invite Andreas Winter in for baptism. Schism?

So here's my thought: I'm going to see if I can locate a Justina Margaretha Specht born at about the right time in Asch, and see if she has a sister.

Well, Justina Margaretha born in Asch is problematic; there seem to be no such records.
And there are multiple Asch's too. On the other hand, we have a Margaretha Muench born in a town a few miles from one such town. Here's the record:

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61023&...

Asch, Ruetti, and Ettlenschiess u. Ruetti pretty well pin down where this is all happening: just west of Ulm, Wurttemberg.

So let's hypothesize now Justina Margaretha is a Muench by birth, Sprecht by marriage, and the sister of Andreas Winter's wife "Elizabeth". I'll see if I can find some records for those...

Huh.
So I didn't get anywhere with Justina Margaretha. But I did start looking at the Muench family, and this looks germane:

https://www.ancestry.com/mediaui-viewer/tree/86677662/person/345403...

Basically, this gives a history and context for both George and Simon. They were both born in PA, which is why I can't find them in Germany.

The naturalization record for Andreas Winter, dated 1765, indicates he pretty certainly emigrated -- but he may have just not naturalized for a decade or so. If he married in PA, then his wife might well have been a Muench, but that won't help us determine *his* origins.

Also note that the list of children compiled in the reference above are all male. I bet they overlooked the girls.

This is what I did.

(1) I looked at the Muench family, and sure enough they had a daughter born in Gommersheim Bavaria at exactly the right time. However, she was assumed to have died in PA. But I can find no record of that, nor any record of a death in Bavaria. Birth record exists, no problem.
(2) There seems to be disagreement over where the other children of Johann Peter Muench were born. But Johann Georg was definitely born in Gommersheim, in 1731, so emigration had to have happened after that.
(3) I therefore made Anna Elisabetha Muench the wife of Andreas Winter. Everything works out perfectly given that.
(4) I assumed that since Philipp Simon Muench was from the wife's family, Justina Margaretha would have been from the husband's family, and was thus Andreas's sister.

So we still don't know where the Winters came from, but I think the tree now represents a darned good guess at the rest of it.

(4)

DNA studies suggest that my Staley / Staileys of North Carolina originated from a village near Ulm in Baden-Württemberg.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulm

They are later arrivers I think.

Joseph Staley

Joseph Staley might have been the father of Conrad, Martin, and Jacob Staley. A Joseph Stahle arrived in Philadelphia on Aug.31, 1750 aboard the Ship Nancy, Thomas Coatam, Master, from Rotterdam and last from Cowes, England. This date fits the time line of the published birth dates of Conrad (b.1736), Jacob (b.1740), and Martin (b.1747), and the claim that they were supposedly all born in Germany. ...

“On Sept. 23, 1763 a Joseph Stailey was naturalized at Superior Court, Salisbury, Rowan Co., NC, along with 45 other natives of Germany. The main trail from PA to this area of NC ran right through Salisbury. Since the Staleys later bought land in Orange Co., NC in 1764, and the county seat for Orange was Hillsborough, one gets the feeling that this group had just pulled into town, and took care of the naturalization before shopping for property. Since they must have left PA after the June 19, 1763 baptism, they had about three months to travel down to NC, which is nearly 400 miles away. The exodus from PA may have been prompted by the outbreak of Pontiac’s War (1763-1766) in May 1763. ...”

According to http://madmotors.com/genealogy/database/fam/fam00998.htm

Martin Specht was one of the husbands of Justina Margaretha Specht (who they don’t have a maiden name for). The Geni tree is abandoned.

Thomas Specht Specht family in the same Baden area

http://ofb.genealogy.net/famreport.php?ofb=neibsheim&ID=I110782...

https://sites.rootsweb.com/~pagermanpioneers/ships2.html

Pennsylvania German Pioneers Passenger Lists

Palatine German Immigrant Ships to Philadelphia 1740-1752

I glued in the Spechts, and filled out the children based on web trees.

Yes! It seemed sound enough to me.

Private User Can you take a look at this possible match?

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000090784400822?to=600000004...

Your profile: Anna Christina Kimberling

Abandoned tree profile: Anna Christina Kimberling

It would take a Geni volunteer curator to do the merge for you.

From http://www.berks.pa-roots.com/wills/Admins1801-1805.html

WINTER, ANDREW, Bern.
September 9, 1803.
Adm. to Henry WINTER, a son in Northampton County.

I’ve gone ahead with the Bonewitz / Kimberling merge.

Thank you! I was out for an hour but yes it looks good (the merge).

Lloyd Alfred Doss, Jr. I thought you had Stumpf ?

George G. Stumpf - I just get a winding path.

https://www.geni.com/path/Lloyd-Doss-Jr+is+related+to+George-Stumpf...

(I just did some zombie kills & mega merges)

No Stumpf, I'm afraid.

But I did find what ship (possible brother) Philip Friedrich Winter arrived on: the Phoenix, in 28 August 1750, in Philadelphia, via the Samuel. Unfortunately, no indication of where he came from. :-(

Marriage date for Andreas would have been around 1750. He probably could not have married in Germany unless the Winters and the Muenches emigrated together, which doesn't seem born out by the records, and they all had to be in Berks County in time for Justina's baptism. So clearly he did his naturalization about 15 years later.

Bingo!
This is another passenger on the Phoenix:

Andreas Wittenmeyer

I'll bet I know who that is. And it pretty much confirms that Philip Friederich and Andreas are brothers.

Andreas Wittenmeyer