Samuel Wesley II & Samuel Wesley, The Younger are one and the same

The documentation says William was born around 1750 but does not give a place of birth. I would assume since his father arrived in Virginia in 1763 then he would have been born in England.

William's son Robert "Robin" was born in Virginia.

Robert "Robin" Wesley (son of William, grandson of Samuel II, great grandson of Samuel the Younger, great great grandson of Samuel the Rector) is buried at Mount Hope Cemetary in Pulaski County Kentucky

Page 5 https://media.geni.com/p13/40/57/09/40/5344484b05f90bdd/the_wesley_...

Bottom
# 4 Charles Wesley b 1707 ... their surviving daughter Sarah ...

(Continuing on next page )

Page 6
https://media.geni.com/p13/fa/db/b0/7c/5344484b05f90bdf/the_wesley_...

... died unmarried in 1828. Charles Jr (1759 - 1834) ... also died unmarried. Samuel, the younger brother [of Sarah & Charles Jr] carried on the Wesley line.

5. Samuel Wesley, b 1766 at Bristol ...

6. Dr. Samuel Sebastian Wesley b 1810 London ...

—-

Where are the Virginia people ?

Page 7 are the Virginia people

On page 7 #5 is Samuel Wesley (II) the son of Samuel Wesley Younger,

On Page 7 #6 is William Wesley son of Samuel Wesley II & grandson of Samuel Wesley younger

On Page 7 under #6 William Wesley is Robert "Robin" Wesley (my 4th grandfather) who was born in Virginia and died in Kentucky

The Virginia Wesley's married into the very prominent Randolph families

Page 7 is what I rough-transcribed above

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000090623404053&

(This is Page 7, same as https://media.geni.com/p13/0e/45/ae/6c/5344484b05eb6815/the_wesley_... )

Message https://www.geni.com/discussions/194878?msg=1289225

. John Wesley b 1636
3. (missing link) (Timothy or another son of John 1636) (b abt 1659)
4. William b abt 1700
5. Samuel b abt 1729 m Susannah
6. William b near 1750

I do not see Samuel (son of Samuel & Ursula) on this page.

How I read page 7 was that 4. William b 1700 was the father of Samuel b 1729 who married Susaniah, father of William T. b near 1750 (the Virginia line).

And that #4 William was a first cousin of John & Charles, the Founders of Methodism, through Timothy or a brother of Timothy, son(s) of John Wesley b 1636.

This John Wesley John Wesley, A.M.

You know you may be right. Let me look again.

I think you're right after rereading several times.

So here's what I see -- let me know if you agree

John Wesley b 1636
Timothy Wesley b 1657 (brother of Samuel Wesley, Rector b 1662)
Samuel Wesley b 1729
William T Wesley b 1750
Robert "Robin" Wesley b 1775

I want to get this right -- sometimes fresh eyes helps. When they keep using Samuel, William, John over & over it complicates matters.

Erica Howton

Look at this https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000003477247273

Something crazy going on -- shows John Wesley, A.M. 3 times as husband of Mary White. Do all the Mary's need merged???

Also I went ahead and added Timothy as son of John Wesley AM

Merge this Samuel Wesley, of London

and this Samuel Wesley, of London

and that should fix the line I think.

@Erica Howton

That just seems visual, l’ll look at it shortly. But I need to caution - Timothy etc are “Not” listed in John Wesley’s bio, only sons Mathew & Samuel.

https://archive.org/stream/historywesleyfam00doveuoft#page/19/mode/1up

‘BIOGRAPHICAL HISTORY OF THE WESLEY FAMILY, MORE PARTICULARLY ITS EARLIER BRANCHES.' John Dove, Leeds England 1840

The book suggests he likely had many children who died young.

So you would be wise to get a better reference to son Timothy.

Fixed it & found Timothy b 1659, but Samuel ll is wrong - your source has a WILLIAM as son of Timothy or brother, and father of Samuel (who is not a ll).

John Wesley’s (d 1678) eldest son was Timothy (b 1659).

===References
* DNB edited by Sir Leslie Stephen. Page 314. “Wesley.” [https://books.google.com/books?id=usPQAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA314&ot... GoogleBooks]

Here’s a genealogical table of the Wesley family by George Stevenson

https://archive.org/details/memorialsofwesle00stev/page/n17

Memorials of the Wesley family : including biographical and historical sketches of all the members of the family for two hundred and fifty years ; together with a genealogical table of the Wesleys, with historical notes, for more than nine hundred years

Author
Stevenson, George J. (George John), 1818-1888,Wesley, Charles, 1707-1788

Oh Yeah you found Timothy!!!.

So I'm getting confused now.

Is this right???

John Wesley b 1636
Timothy Wesley b 1657 (brother of Samuel Wesley, Rector b 1662)
William Wesley b 1700
Samuel Wesley b 1729 married Susannah (take the II off his name)
William T Wesley b 1750

If that looks correct can you go ahead & make the necessary corrections?

I've added those documents I uploaded to Timothy's profile

Timothy Wesley

I can't tell you how very much I appreciate your help on this one. The Wesley family is very complicated and then when they got to the U.S. they married into the also very complicated Randolph family.

Makes it really tough but I want this to be right.

2 sets of eyes are always better than one.

You have the “speculative” sequence as I understand it. I added unknown wives & you could merge the former Samuel ll into Samuel Wesley, of London

However.

- the widow Susannah Wright “cannot” have been the mother of William T. b 1650. Since he’s listed a widower on his marriage record in 1657, you need a 1st wife / mother.

- since the family seems London based I think the argument that it’s the correct marriage record is good

- because the family is London based I find it harder to accept the 1663 immigration record for Samuel. Nor does the document suggest he went to VA (I think, have to re read)

It look like Stevenson has a good reputation as a Wesley scholar. You need however to fill in his speculation with facts such as the marriage record and evidence of Samuel / William T in VA. English Records May actually be easier now we know it’s London.

William T. was born in 1750 and he was married to Delilah Sarah Goodall.

It won't let me merge Samuel Wesley II and Samuel Wesley -- get this error message

Caution: Relationships are locked on the master profile for Samuel Wesley, II. Merging into this profile will automatically disconnect the immediate family of Samuel Wesley.

I think this is one you might have to do????????

Here’s about George Stevenson

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_John_Stevenson

Unfortunately I don’t see the article you had scanned.

I uploaded documents to Timothy that I got from the Tulsa County Rudisill Genealogy Library in Tulsa, Ok.

You could run over to Duke University & access their archives :)

https://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/findingaids/frankbakercol/#aspa...

I want to see a better mother for William b near 1650.

Not sure which William you're referring to.

William T was born 1750 son of Samuel 1729 - we can show his mother as unknown

Samuel b 1729 son of William born 1700

William b 1700 son of Timothy b 1659

Timothy b 1659 son of John Wesley/Mary White

Yes, it’s several NN wives, unfortunately. This is a highly speculative tree so far.

I so much appreciate your hard work on all this. George Stevenson appears to be a highly credited individual.

We'll go with the speculation until we can prove otherwise.

Frankly if it were my tree I would leave it as “link within as speculative”. I am counting on you to write compelling arguments in the profile overviews, and to do more research, especially on the Virginia side. It’s way too “illustrious” to allow for family tradition only.

If I hadn’t found the London Marriage record I would have suggested “whistling in the wind” might work. :)

You should fill in the Elizabeth daughter or sister of Timothy or one of each also, and her husband.

I'm gonna have to go back and look at that info for Elizabeth since I don't have anything on it.

You want to review this record for your ? Samuel Westley from Coldham. He was transported as a criminal on the Dolphin in 1763 from Essex County England.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000090649496821&