Cross posted from https://www.geni.com/discussions/192543?msg=1281469
Agnes Greenaway/Greenway’s profile is a locked Master Profile, which is unfortunate as it is riddled with errors.
1. Her name is not Anne it is Agnes. There is some name conflict, but the evidence comes down for Agnes being correct. a). She was named Agnes when she married John Holland/Howland in 1539. b). John HOWLAND calls her Agnes my wyfe in his 1568 will. c) Inexplicably, she IS called Anne Holland in the parish register of St Peter Le Poer in 1571 & Anne Quarles in 1588 when she is buried there but we can discount those because d). John Quarles calls her his Deare wyfe Agnes in his 1577 will e) John Quarles MI at St Peter Le Poer gives the name of his third wife as Agnes Greenway [& of course she was alive to verify & arrange this] and finally f) In her own will of 1588 she calls herself Agnes Quarles. So I don’t see why a minister who had the least to do with her & even misspelt her surname gets to trump all those other sources.
2. Her marriage to John Howland did take place in 1539 [in fact 16th June but I can’t add that] but not at Newport, Essex, England. It took place at St Lawrence Jewry, London [I have seen the entry].
3. She is not the mother of Frances Quarles as Frances died in 1562. Agnes married John Quarles on the 7th August 1571 at St Peter Le Poer. They had no children as Agnes would be far too old!
Then, her first husband John Howland Citizen and Salter of London
1. Marriage to wife incorrect place [& name for her]. However, if Agnes's profile is fixed I presume that will be reflected in his timeline.
2. He is not the “Elder John Howland II “. I don’t know where the elder comes from, but he is not called that in his marriage, burial or will. The “II” appears to have come from thinking a footnote number is part of his name...
3. I cannot find any evidence that he died in Essex on July 28 1568 at Newport Pond Essex, but he was certainly not buried in Essex. He was a Citizen & Salter of London & of the Parish of St Mary Moses & St Margaret Moses, London. He more than likely died in London & then was buried at St Margaret Moses, Little Friday St, London on the 24th March 1569/1570 [I have the image of this burial record]
Is there a policy/rule for what name should be used in a woman's profile when she is married several times? Agnes was born Agnes Greenway, but her profile is for Anne Quarles. This means that in the timeline of her first husband John Howland it shows that he married "Anne Quarles" which to me seems odd, as she did not become Quarles till much later in her life.
Thank you for your help
Tagging Private User
I’ll work on this list and advise when done. Your help and notes are much appreciated.
To answer “names.”
- Agnes / Anne were sometimes alternate names as you point out. And I agree, Agnes seems the better given name for the profile.
For English and American women, I tend to set profiles this way:
First name: Agnes
Middle name (none in this era: sometimes an alternate name in quotes, in this case we could do “Anne,” your call)
Name at birth: Greenway
Last name: the last surname known [name at death]
Any other surnames used in the “also known as” field.
I do see your point about the timeline, and I’m raising it to Geni as an enhancement request.
Private User - done, but please review.
- Frances Quarles had been moved over to correct mother on Saturday
- feel free to edit the name suffix further for
(Continued)
John Howland, Citizen and salter of London
I see a couple of other typos in nearby profiles I’ll also work on.
Thanks Erica. Ian Garrett moved Frances for me as I couldn't work out how to do it. I appreciate you fixing this up or me!
Jenny
P.S. Another reason I am not so keen on the last name known is if the man had several wives with the same Christian name then it can be difficult to tell them apart. This can lead to their details becoming muddled & the wrong children assigned to the wrong mothers.
Actually I find it much easier to sort multiple wives when I’ve got last surname known. One direct guy had 22 children by 3 wives, a couple were widows, one remarried, and they’re all Mary. Fun times !
And we can now solve it by relationship locking. I’d love to do that for this Howland family but we don’t have all the children entered as profiles. So if the spirit moves you and you have the references, please do. I don’t want to add without a good reference of course.
One way to move children is through the drop down in the relationships tab, you may need permissions however.
I’ll go ahead and lock up the “basics tab” fields again if you’re happy with how it looks.
I can't find the earlier register for St Margaret Moses online anywhere that I can access, so I have no way of confirming the accuracy of this list https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/132836271
I can confirm that these children are listed in John Howland's will "1568 Will is John HOWLAND, citizen & Salter of London. Agnes my wyfe, Lists sons as John my second son,Richard, Robert, Willyam my eldest son of that name, Willyam my youngest son of that name,Gyles, James & Nicholas". Proved 1570 28th July
The profiles look fine now, thanks.