Mary Elkins (Williams) - Anyone have input on Elkins/Williams connection

Mary Williams was the first wife of Richard Elkins

Her children were

James Elkins (without question) and probably Ralph Elkins, I

Richard married 12 Jan 1694/95 St. Paul's Parish, Stafford County, Virginia to Elizabeth Bryant and the rest of his children were with her.

Which child do you think you descend from? And which grand child ?

There are a lot of repeating names, so to keep this family line straight all the way to you would be a shocking achievement. :)

This is your path

https://www.geni.com/path/TODD-MCCORMICK-Cheraw-Nation-At-Large-Cou...

I don’t think there’s any question that you would come from the Bryant side.

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0407...

GENEALOGIES OF VIRGINIA FAMILIES" Vol. I and Vol IV; indexed by Judith McGhan by Baltimore Publishing Co. page 86:"The Will of Richard Bryan (Book Z, p. 227) dated April 5, 1703. Probate recorded May 15, 1704, Richard Bryant,, bequeathed to his son, Nathaniel Bryant "all my land I now enjoy in Virginia, his mother to live wholly upon the plantation where I now live;" to daughter, ELIZABETH ELKIN, 400 Lb. tobacco, RICHARD ELKIN to give my grandson (under 6) RICHARD ELKIN a mare,. ....

That would be

Elizabeth Elkins Daughter of Dr. Richard Bryant, of Stafford County and mother of (Geni says) your 7th gg

Richard Elkins, Jr. Why married Mary Elkins

If there is uncertainty it’s with his children, grandchildren, etc - not his Ancestry.

Erica I don't know how to thank you.... Im sorry I haven't responded sooner I have been working a lot of Overtime and know looks like I have a lot of reading to do lol :)

I suggest you focus on the descent after Richard Elkins, Jr. Because it gets complicated for a couple generations, much room for error.

At first I thought my line was through Mary Elkins, but the more I work on making connections, more and more of the Bryant, Newton, Sullivan names are starting to show me with a DNA connection.

I am leaving my tree with Geni with Mary William Elkins, while I have another tree, and using the Bryant line with Richard Elkins. Maybe some day we will find something to prove all the children of Richard and Mary.

Coyal M. Gorman

Coyal Ann Maxey Gorman A096806/AQ264706C1 Wants to see Ralph Elkins, I mother changed to second wife Elizabeth Elkins

I don’t really agree, but would like others to review the available evidence and discuss.

Here’s my problem about Bryant as Ralph’s mother.

The will of Richard Byant dated 1703 mentions his grandson Richard Elkins, but no other Elkins children. Yet Ralph is older than Richard. The only explanation I can see for that is that James & Ralph were not his grand children.

See https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0319...

'The will of Richard Bryan (Book Z, p 227), dated April 5, 1703, probated May 15, 1704, mentions son Nathaniel, son Richard and dau Anne (who are both under 18), daus Sylent and Susannah (both under 16), dau Elizabeth Elkins wife of Richard Elkins and their son Richard (under 6), stepson Wm Redman, and wife Ann.'

Coyal Ann Maxey Gorman A096806/AQ264706C1 Notes:

The will of Dr. Richard Bryant (Stafford County Record Book 1699-1709, pp. 227-229) was dated 5 April 1703 and was recorded 15 May 1704. It names his son, Nathaniel Bryant,
(under 21); his son, Richard Bryant (under 18), to whom he left his books and medicines; his daughter, Elizabeth Elkins, wife of Richard Elkins; his grandson, Richard Elkins (under 6).

I thought that Ralph was a younger son than Richard Elkins.

Look forward for the discussion.

—

The Birth date of Ralph ELKINS is not found that I know of, but he was born no later than 1707 as his son was taxed as adult in 1749.

Anyone for Birth date estimates?

According to Bishop_BischoffResearch: Volume I- Hans Johannes Bischoff, Ralph Elkins is the son of Richard Elkins & Elizabeth Bryant and was born about 1700. See photo in media section

According to the profile of Mary (Williams) Elkins, she died prior to 1695. If this is the case and Ralph was born in 1700, then he would have to be the child of Elizabeth Bryant.

Mary Elkins

Either way Ralph's lineage leads back to Native -- either thru Elizabeth Bryant who was a descendant of Chief Wahanganoche or thru Mary Williams who was a descendant of KaOkee.

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0407... Has Ralph born about 1698.

How is it explained that Ralph Elkins is not mentioned in the will of Richard Bryan (d 1704) but Richard Elkins is?

Judith McGhan by Baltimore Publishing Co. page 86:"The Will of Richard Bryan (Book Z, p. 227) dated April 5, 1703. Probate recorded May 15, 1704, Richard Bryant,, bequeathed to his son, Nathaniel Bryant "all my land I now enjoy in Virginia, his mother to live wholly upon the plantation where I now live;" to daughter, ELIZABETH ELKIN, 400 Lb. tobacco, RICHARD ELKIN to give my grandson (under 6) RICHARD ELKIN a mare,..

——

The only solution I have to that is that he wasn’t a Bryan.

None of these families has any Native American connection. All were white.
No one was connected to Wahanganoche or the mythical Kaokee.

Richard Elkins married first Mary Williams, the daughter of Christian Martin and
Evan Williams. Richard and Mary had one known child, James, named in a deed
of gift from Christian dated 1694/5. Mary died and Richard married Elizabeth
Bryant, daughter of Anne unknown and Richard Bryant per 1704 will of Richard
Bryant.
It seems most likely that Ralph Elkin was the son of Richard and Elizabeth
and that he was younger than people assume. Richard Bryant named only one
grandchild in his will, a child named Richard Elkin. James Elkins died in 1717,
but his grandmother Christian didn't die until 1722, so if Ralph was her grandson why
didn't she give or leave anything to him?

@Kathryn Forbes

Neither of the above tribes were Cherokee so.............................

KaOkee has been confirmed as real by Patawomeck Tribal Historians.

I don't think Cherokee researchers should be trying to discount Patawomeck Tribal Historians

JS

Erica Howton

I have no idea why he wasn't mentioned in the will --- perhaps a family falling out????

It is not uncommon for people to not be mentioned in wills

In 1749, the Lunenburg County tax list includes:

Richard Elkins, 1 tithable
Ralph, Sr. and Nathaniel, 2 tithables (Nathaniel, age 16-20)
Ralph, Jr., under 21 (age 16-20)

https://oldpeterskaggs.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-elkins-family-of-ha...

Prince William County, Virginia Deeds {June Whitehurst Johnson}: Liber B; 1732-1735; Pages 180-181. Nov. 23, 1733.
George Mason of Parish of Durham in Charles Co. in Province of Maryland, Gent. to Ralph Elikin of Parish of Brunswick and Co. of King Geo. in Virginia, planter.... 150 a.....land being on the head of Dogue Cr. and Parish of Truro and commonly known by the name of Chappell land....for term of natural lives of said Ralph Ellkin, Francis his wife, and Nathaniel their son. Geo. Mason
Wit: James Baxter, Jere. Bronaugh.
At court Nov. 23, 1733 George Mason acknowledged this lease to Ralph Elikin.

This record shows that Ralph Elkins, his wife Frances and son Nathaniel leased 150 acres of land in Prince William County, Virginia from George Mason in 1733. This George Mason was not the famous Revolutionary, but his father.

"KING GEORGE County, WILL BOOK" by Ha. S. King 1745 June 4;
"I, Maxfield Brown, in Parish of Hanover, County of King George..." bequeaths each of his five daughters Five Shillings, viz: Elizabeth Triplett, FRANCES ELKINS, Martha Whiting, and Sibella Lightburn. "unto my two sons Newman Brown and George Brown all and every part of my estate...." Recorded July 5, 1745.

Maxfield Brown’s will and the land lease between Ralph Elkins and George Mason show that Maxfield Brown’s daughter, Frances Brown, was wife of Ralph Elkins.

1 Ralph Elkins
+ Frances Brown

1745, May 17, Amelia County Court Order Book, p. 314-B, Ordered road be cleared from head of Little Roanoke River along the ridge between Briery Creek & Buffelloe River to Rutlidge's ford over Appomattox River. The group included RALPH ELKIN.

p.316-A, "Case Edward Booker, Jr. vs. Ralph Elkin dismissed, being agreed."

Amelia County was adjacent and north of Lunenburg (later Halifax) County. So Ralph Elkins has started moving south.

In 1749, the Lunenburg County tax list includes:

Richard Elkins, 1 tithable
Ralph, Sr. and Nathaniel, 2 tithables (Nathaniel, age 16-20)
Ralph, Jr., under 21 (age 16-20)

These tax records show that Nathaniel was the son of Ralph and Frances Elkins and Ralph, Jr., though under 21, appears to live in a separate household.

1751 Nov 9th - Pittsylvania County, VA - RICHARD ELKINS, 400 acres adjacent to RICHARD ELKINS JR at Davis' upper line of entry on the East Fork of Leatherwood thence up.

-----------------------------------------------------
1749-Lunenburg Co.,VA. Tithable List has the following ELKINS.....................
Ralph ELKENS 2-Tithables,0-Crows,& 0-Sq'rls.
Ralph ELKENS, Jun. {16-21 yrs. of age} 0-Tithables,0-Crows,& 0-Sq'rls.
Richard ELKENS 1-Tithable, 0-Crows,& 0-Sq'rls.
1750-Lunenburg Co.,VA. Tithable List as the following ELKINS.....................
Ralph ELKINS, Sen. 2-Tithables.
Ralph ELKINS, Jun. {16-21 yrs. of age} 0-Tithables.
Richard ELKINS 1-Tithable. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Elkins-15
------------------------------------------------------

Ralph Elkins Jun. 1

Richard Elkins, 1 tithe 1

Nathaniel Elkins, son Jessey. 2

https://archive.org/stream/jstor-4243515/4243515_djvu.txt

Richard Elkins had first married Mary Williams, daughter of Evan Williams and Christian Martin, a granddaughter of Ka-Okee of the Pocahontas line.

Source of Info - William Deyo, Patawomeck Tribal Historian
http://www.mdhervey.com/photos/Wahanganoche%20Family%20Connection.htm

It is very uncommon for a grandfather to skip over a child out of his will, or for a grandmother. Since Christian Williams didn’t name Ralph in 1722, he’s not hers. Since Richard Bryan didn’t name Ralph in 1704, he wasn’t born yet.

Bill Deyo has only theories, no facts. There is no documentation to support his claims and many of the relationships he theorizes are impossible due to the dates people arrived in America or their ages.

I am trying to find any document to prove that Judah Elkins is the daughter of Nathaniel Elkins, granddaughter of Ralph & Frances Browne Elkins. Judah Elkins married William Weathers in Virginia.

The last document I have found for Nathaniel Elkins, is the 1767 tax record where he is listed with Ralph, Richard and son, Jessey. No records for marriage/children or his will has been found.

DNA with Geni and Ancestry say I am the 5th great granddaughter of Judah Elkins. I also have my documents to her for proof. Geni does show that I have a DNA link to Nathaniel Elkins, along with several of Nathaniel's brothers & sisters.

Any information/documentation will be appreciated to link Judah to her father.

Dr. Richard Bryant, of Stafford County is needing a connection to his Dr Richard Bryant son, right? With a sibling of Dr. Richard Bryant name Silent Bryant who is the father of Elizabeth (Bryant) Gallop-Owens per Bill Deyo's research and books, right?

Excuse me, Elinor (Bryant) Gallop-Owen, not Elizabeth.

Please provide a source besides Bill Deyo referencing Silent Bryant, Grace his widow, as part of the Dr Richard Bryant family.

Virginia had many Bryan(t)s.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bryan/default.aspx?section=yre...

It does not involve Grace, the Widow as the mother of Elinor (Bryant) Gallop-Owens.

The source for connect of 7 generations is the SNP work that Geni accepts if it is valid, and it is, publically accessible, and it is; can be re-vetted, and it can.

The source for Silent Bryant being whom Bill said he was is due to 2. Silent Bryant - One need only to do a lile bit of research to find a number of court records
involving him both in VA and right across the river in MD. Dr. Richard Bryant named one of his
daughters “Silent Bryant”, certainly in honor of his brother.

A daughter named Silent is not adequate reference for me. You have to understand where I’m coming from: I’ve been curating for Geni for 10 years now, and mixed up Bryant families have been a perennial issue that takes enormous time, energy and research to sort out.

It’s already been pointed out that this Silent Bryant was a man who left a very small imprint in history (that is, Records). Find more solid evidence of his existence and I’ll revisit gladly, but until then, I’m not putting myself into the world of painful speculation.

He witnessed a will in Maryland in 1688 --- Parsons, John, St. Mary's Co., 5th May, 1688; 9th July, 1688. To 2 sons, viz., Edward and John, at 21 yrs. of age, and hrs., plantation in St. George's Hundred. Should either die without issue survivor and hrs. to inherit deceased's por tion. ‘‘ young. son Cosine and hrs., sd, plantation in event of death of both sons afsd. without issue. Sd. son Cosine dying without hrs., plantation afsd. to pass to dau. (unnamed) and hrs. - ‘‘ sd, sons in like manner, certain land by patent on Great Choptanke R., Talbot Co. ‘‘ wife Mary, extz., home plantation during life; to descend to son Cosine and dau. (unnamed) and their hrs. In event of death of either son or dau. without issue, sur vivor to inherit deceased's portion. Sd. 4 child. to be in care of their mother, and to be brought up Roman Catholics. Test: Robt. Carvile, Thos. Stroud, Sylent Bryant, Thos. Price. 4. 317. https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=GWcolLcUE64C&hl=en&...

Can't post photo but is in Essex Wills -- if you have access to Ancestry can be viewed here

https://www.ancestry.com/mediaui-viewer/tree/7005889/person/2408398...

Virginia County Court Records Deed & Will Abstracts of Essex County Virginia

1694, 1695 & 1698. Again can't post a photo but I believe this has already been posted in the media section on profile. https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000098017280058&