Habiathia Gyllett (Pye) - Habiathia Pye Gyllett Naming problems

I want to help sort this out. First: Is this the profile you are discussing?

Abiah ‘Habiatha’ Gyllett

It is a bit of a mess. It currently has multiple parents that need to be sorted out.

She is listed as the wife of William Gylett (not Jonathan as your comment stated). I show her as the mother of Jonathan. Can you clarify?

I have a membership to the New England Historical and Genealogical Society which I just renewed to help answer this question.

William Tyes, wife Julian, wrote a will in 1623. The will calls William Gillette son-in-law and Abiah Gillette daughter-in-law.

There is a marriage on Sept 18, 1609 between William Gillette and Habiathia Pye.

In a footnote and cited elsewhere on the Internet, the assumption is that Abiah (Habiathia) is the daughter of Julian Tyes by another marriage and the step-daughter of William Tyes.

I had made some changes to the tree, some of which did not take this into account. The bottom line is that we do not know who the biological father of Abiah Pye (? Tyes) is, but her mother is presumed to be Julian.

Habiathia is the name in the marriage license so for better or worse, it is documented, but she was called Abiah elsewhere and named a daughter Abiah. The custom was to name the first son after the father and the first daughter after the mother, as I recollect.

The location is Donyatt, Somerset.

Someone has changed the name of the wife of Anthony Pye from Elizabeth to Julian recently. Anthony's wife was Julian and if the dates of his death are correct he could not have been married to Julian since in 1623 she was William Tye's wife.

This needs more thought but I believe there is an Elizabeth married to Anthony Pye and a Julian who may have been married previously to an unknown Pye.

I'd like to hear from others before I make more changes.

Anthony Pye, of Bodinneck-Veor

Julian Pye or Tyes

Rev. William Pye or Tyes

And no Jonathan Gillette is the son of William Gillette and it was not Jonathan who married Habiathia / Abiah.

I assume that Habiathia / Abiah was the step-daughter and thus Jonathan was as a grandson to William Tyes.

I can't cut and paste the NEGHS article but it is cited here:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gyllett-1

Leslie Mahler, "Various English Wills Relating to New England Colonists Gillett, Swaine, and Tutty-Knight-Whitman," New England Historical and Genealogical Register 162 (2008):113-117, in particular part, pp. 113-114, "New Evidence in the English Ancestry of Jonathan^1 Gillett and Nathan^1 Gillett of Windsor, Connecticut"; digital images, AmericanAncestors.org (accessed 2014). In brief summary

Overviews records published earlier by George E. McCracken

For the marriage license, 18 Sept 1609--"William Gillett clerk and curate of Kingstone, Somerset, and 'Habiathia' Pye of Donyatt, Somerset," references the work of Burton Spear and cites "Somerset Record office, D/DO! 18 (bondsman was Roger Gillet of Chillington)" as originally cited in "Burton Spear, ed. Search for the Passengers of the Mary & John 1630, 27 vols. (Toledo, Ohio: Mary & John Clearing House, 1985-99), 25:35-36" noting that "this reference was pointed out by David Morehouse of Hopkins, Minnesota.".

Includes transcription of will of Rev. William Tyes, dated 1 April 1623, proved 28 June 1623, citing "Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 56 Swann [FHL 0,092,092]" saying, "The will calls Abiah Gillett daughter-in-law and her husband William Gillett son-in-law." Author indicates this may indicate Abiah was the "stepdaughter of William Tyes, daughter of his wife Julian by a previous marriage."

@Elizabeth Cornish

I am sorry. YES, Mary, I meant William Gyllett, not his son Jonathan when I was referring to "Habiathia Pye" in this discussion post.

I am new to GENI and may not be doing this post properly, sorry if I miss something.

I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of responses on this topic. I will try to address them in order.

@Elizabeth Cornish

I have an image of the 1623 William Tyes will, taken from the original as it was written into the record book. This is not a transcript and parts of the 17th century script can be difficult to read. Other portions are very legible. The scribe has recorded "Abia."

Abia is a known name, with a biblical origin. An online search of parish records in England, from that time period, yields a lot of results for this name.

Similarly, a search of "Habiah" yields just a handful of results. I cannot find an etymology for this spelling.

A search of parish registers gives me zero results when using the spelling "Habiathia" and I find no etymology.

For these reasons, I find no basis for Habiathia being a real name. I have not used it in my family genealogy.

I cannot answer the question of the naming problem as reported on the 1609 marriage license for William Gillett and Habiathia Tyes. I cannot find an image of this record, only references to it.

@Elizabeth Cornish

I want to toss around one more thing:
There has been some speculation that "Habiathia Pye" aka Abia Tyes, is a step-daughter to William Tyes. If that is the case, I would expect her marriage certificate to reflect whatever that surname was. Instead she uses Pye.

Private User - I agree that her name was likely Abiah but since a document cited widely has Habiathia, that needs to be in her profile somewhere, even if in Also Known As.

I don't understand your statement about her using Pye. It's not Tyes. I don't know if it was a clerical error or her surname.

@Elizabeth Cornish

I use the original handwritten source as my basis for the name TYES. That source is the 1623 will of William Tyes, which names Abia and William Gillett.

The extracted parish records for William's 1623 burial, also gives his surname as TYES.

I have no primary or secondary sources for the name PYE, other than online trees which refer to the marriage license of "Habiathia Pye." I would like to see this marriage license, but I cannot find it online.

I give more weight to the original primary source for TYES, than I give to the secondary derived source for PYE.

Does anyone has access to volume 25 of the Burton Spears publication, "Search for the Passengers of the Mary & John 1630"

Sure, I understand your point and mostly agree, but sometimes we have to go with what a reputable genealogy journal cites from someone's research because we can't see the marriage license ourselves. And could PYE have been incorrect? Yes, but the online trees with PYE got it from this same source, which is cited in an NEGHS article.

That may be the best we can do. A lot of these families have been studied extensively and no more can be found.

I have The Great Migration Begins here someone (I moved and it's in a box). I can check there. That's usually a definitive source that updates a lot of the older research.

I looked up Jonathan Gillett in the Great Migration Begins

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/2496/42521_b158319-00092/53345...

Anderson does not name his mother. There is a comment about siblings, I’ll upload the page to his profile.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000081855980158&

@Elizabeth Cornish

Thanks for the link, Erica.

Here is my other piece of evidence for TYES:

William Tyes, rector at Donyatt is listed in CCEd, the Clergy of the Church of England Database. He is listed in these transcribed records as Willimus [latinized William] "Tyes" in three of the four instances. The fourth record has his name as Willimus Tyce.

While I have seen misspellings in this database (also) while researching other names, I find these records credible.

Put together with the information found in his will, I am confident William's name was spelled “Tyes.”

Here is the link to the Donyatt page.

http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/locations/index.jsp?locKey=4472

Update on this subject:

I have obtained an image from the Records Office in Somerset, England of the Gillett-Pye marriage license which was recorded 18 Sep 1609. The bride's name is not “Habiathia,” as we have found in many genealogy trees and some published secondary sources. However, after reviewing the image of the license, I see how it came to be noted as “Habiathia.” The journal entry for the license is written in Latin and the names have been “Latinized.”

Her name is clearly written as “Habiaham Pye” in the license, which is “Abiah” in English to which the stem, Abia, has an “H” attachment and the “-am” suffix. Comment about her surname, “Pye,” follows.

Latin adds the letter “H” to the beginning of some forenames that begin with vowels. Examples of lanitized forenames with the H- attachment are: Adrian in English which becomes Hadrianus in Latin; Esther in English becomes Hesthera in Latin.

The suffix “-am” is added to the stem name, Abiah, because it is first-declension accusative in this case.

At this point we have two original documents as evidence for her name: the 1609 marriage liense and the 1623 William Tyes will. Both should be noted. Both are original documents, not transcripts.

Also of note in this 1609 license, we find William Tyes “rector de Donyett” as “wm pye.”

In all the records I have found for this family (baptims, marriage, wills, burials, clerical) this marriage license is the only record that spells the surname PYE. All the other records spell it TYES or some variation, such as Tice or Tyse.

Elizaabeth L Cornish, 1 Oct 2018.

Great work. Thank you so much.

Can you attach the image as a source and update the profile and the Overview?

We should document in Overview that both Habiatha and Pye are not actual names found in primary sources. I'm contemplating whether we should put them in AKA. I will explain my reasoning. In any case, we'll re-lock down the profile when we're finished.

I paid for the research and image, but I do not have the copyright. I am not allowed to post it, transcribe it or share it without their permission and/or paying for the copyright. I will ask them how much that will cost. I will let you know what I find out from them.

I put my summary and two primary sources all into Overview. I am waiting to hear back about the copyright. Thanks for your help in this matter. Untangling the sources took some time. I updated the profile also.

In the matter of posting the marriage license image: I cannot obtain a copyright from the Somerset Records Office and the process of gaining "permission" to use the image is cumbersome. There is a problem with posting it online in that others can copy it without permission. I can, however, use excerpts from the image without permission. That might be the best way to proceed. I will work on that today.

An excerpt from the image of the license has been posted. Thank you, all, for your help in this matter.

Thank you.

I saw some issues with the parents also that I will look into when I’m at home. I’m traveling now.