Angharad verch Gruffydd - Sources for Angharad verch Gruffydd

I will see if Bartrum can help straighten things out. He doesn’t give dares, but he may make the relationships clearer.

Ok. Got it.

What's going on is that this is one of the places where Bartrum and Wolcott part ways, and the issue for Wolcott was indeed the dating.

Angharad herself doesn't show up in Wolcott, who is working with other pieces of the line.

so we are going to have to figure things out.

What I'm going to do, Steven Mitchell Ferry, is work with Angharad herself, and build the line over there. You might want to see what makes sense with other pieces of the branch.

Here, by the way, is the relevant page in Bartrum -- if cadair is up you can see how different this tree is.

http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/4930/Tudur%20...

Ok.

I'm working on the tree for Meilir Etun ab Eilidir, that being different (at the moment) from the tree for Meilir ab Elidir. when I get this cleaned up, then we can see where we need to merge and where we have two separate trees, and how we reconcile Bartrum and Wolcott.

Ok!

I'm going to stop here for a while and let you mess with the tree, Steven Mitchell Ferry -- Angharad is indeed married to Iorwerth Hen ab Owain, and the date in the profile seems to be based on his dates (which you got from Wolcott, I think).

So let that stand.

Her father, according to Bartrum, is Gruffudd ap Meilir. HIS dates also come from Wolcott.

Angharad represents a link between two of Wolcott's trees.

Or, there are two Meilirs, who must be kept separate.

Going off to do something else for a while......

There are at least two, and possibly 3, cousin lines that have a same name string that includes Iorwerth Hen ab Owain. Can you pull up Bartrum's p. 10 to see if that enlightens us? I do suspect that this woman would be assigned to one of the other Iorwerth Hen(s)

Yep. It's page 10 in the Tudor Trefor line:

http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/handle/2160/4911

I was using that; doesn't seem to me to make things clearer. Alas.

When he has a reference that says only a page number, it means it's in the same line as the page you are on.

Oh, Bartrum.

OK, Ill work it from another angle. If memory serves, Bartrum had the lines conflated anyway. This may take a while.

Yep.

I will get back on in it after a while. Had a fictional Arthurian character to chase down.

I corresponded with Darrell Wolcott to clarify the lines for the 2 Iorwerth (Hen) ap Owain ap Bleddyn(s). He has made some slight corrections in is papers and I have adjusted the profiles here. I changed Angharad's birth to c. 1165, as her father, Gruffudd ap Meiler is c. 1125. I then moved her to the age appropriate Iorwerth (Hen) ap Owain, c. 1155. Take a look and see what you think.

Lol.

I love it that you just ask Wolcott when these things come up.

She is making sense now.

I will wrassle the Tudur Trefor line later.