PLEASE DO NOT create or merge in duplicates on the Medieval Tree

LET US EXPLAIN:

1
For Those Of You Who Have Been Finding & Merging in Medieval Duplicates: When the unsourced medieval duplicates get merged in, it takes us hours and hours -- sometimes days and days -- to clean up the tree conflicts and the data conflicts, as we merge in the rest of the line. Unless you have the tools to isolate and delete, please do not merge in profiles that date before 1600. This high up in the tree the potential for exponential Tree Conflict errors is far more work to fix than lower down. It also leaves the relatively well established Geni Medieval Tree in a permanent state of embarrassing chaos.

INSTEAD Please rather put any unsourced duplicate profiles in this Discussion:https://www.geni.com/discussions/158450?msg=1226425 , or attach them to this project, & the Medieval Curators will figure out what to do with them before they get merged into the world tree.
So! That is your new goal! Send us all those duplicates. We need help finding them. All Welcome to join. Use the top right hand corner <Actions> pop-down menu to Request to Collaborate.

2
For Those Of You Who Have Created Medieval Duplicates: Geni can be confusing, because it's not like other genealogical sites. You do not have to enter into Geni all the ancestors you know, because a great many of them will already be there. Once you connect the nearest ancestors you can into the world tree, you are connected to all the early ancestors who are already in the Geni world tree. As a rule of thumb, it's probable that if you have a profile before 1600, it's in the Geni tree already. Since the goal here is to create one world tree, we all work at having one profile per person. That means that all the duplicates have to get dealt with.

cf https://www.geni.com/discussions/158450?msg=1226425

Thanks for informing.

Could you please specify your geographical problem area somehow? At least in Finland we have not met those problems you have.

Wherever the Nordic-Baltic-Russia Medieval Tree joins the already established world tree - eg the medieval Scandinavian tree is well developed on the Geni medieval tree already.

So the key word is 'duplicates' of profiles already on the world tree.

Also all invited to join the overarching Medieval Europe project: https://www.geni.com/projects/Medieval-Europe/3198 and add any new medieval projects created.

Ok thanks, I have now linked also "Medieval Tree Clean Up: Please Park Unsourced DUPLICATES in the Medieval Tree Here!" project to this new "Nordic-Baltic-Russia Medieval Tree Collaboration" project.

It would be great if you could add names on the project page list so that we can identify the medieval experts by country.

For example in Finland we have different situation than you describe on "Medieval Tree Clean Up: Please Park Unsourced DUPLICATES in the Medieval Tree Here!", and that is why Finns have these two projects for corrections in medieval Finnish families, which needs specific geographical expertise:
https://www.geni.com/projects/Suomen-keskiajan-1100-1525-sukututkim...
https://www.geni.com/projects/Suomen-keskiaikasukujen-sukututkimus-...

Different areas and different approach, but both are important to have.

I also updated the Medieval Europe project page, with this information:

Nordic, Baltic and Russia
* https://www.geni.com/projects/Nordic-Baltic-Russia-Medieval-Tree-Co...
* https://www.geni.com/projects/Suomen-keskiajan-1100-1525-sukututkim...
* https://www.geni.com/projects/Suomen-keskiaikasukujen-sukututkimus-...

Yes, it would be good to get specific Finnish medieval projects onto the Medieval Europe project - but important to remember that many Nordic Baltic Russian medieval profiles are already on the one world tree, so linking into the world tree must be done carefully.

The sudden spate of Charlemagne duplicates being merged in suggests that collaborators on this project have lines back into the main medieval world tree that are already on geni.

The shared Medieval Tree has developed a shared approach to profiles on the One Geni World Tree. We work together in this area across Western Europe for this period where our ancestors coincide.

Thank you - that's fantastic :-)

We have had quite a few duplicates in the Finnish Medieval tree, but usually they are merged. because they are well known and documented profiles with sources. We are currently working to add sources to all the Finnish medieval profiles to have them more reliable. Undocumented profiles without any sources are the ones which make the most problems, were they duplicates or already in the world tree.

:-)

Erkki A Tikkanen (Geni Curator), can you help me figure out where the Finnish medieval tree joins the World Tree?

-Right now how much of the Finnish tree is actually connected to the One World Tree? Do you know?

-Do you know which Finnish medieval lines intersect with the One World Tree and where?

Hi Sharon. I think all the Finnish medieval families are already connected to the World Tree via numerous profiles descended from those families. Some directly, like the Frille family. (Frilles are now under loop to be corrected, there are numerous mistakes in the Geni tree, at least in the Finnis side of that.)

Right now we estimate also that almost all the Finnish profiles are already in the World Tree, the percentage is very high. I think the right person to answer this question is Reijo, he has been here in Geni a very active for a long time as a curator and dealing with numerous projects.

There are quite many medieval persons/profiles who came to Finland during the years and started a Finnish line of noble families. In Finland it is very rare to have records of "normal" people immigrating here during the 1100´s-1500´s. Usually they were merchants, priests and noble members of families from different European countries.

There are some profiles intersecting, but because there are no records showing them being part of certain profiles or families abroad and connected directly to the World tree, they were cut out from these profiles. No proof have emerged even now.
Like Knight Peder Fleming and Tuve Månsson

I am glad to answer more questions you, or other curators may have.

Thanks Erkki - that helps.
I'm a big supporter of profiles without proof being removed from the world tree.
Thank you for the work you are doing in the medieval tree. It is so important.

Thanks Sharon for your kind words. My "dream" is to have the Nordic medieval tree in the best possible condition with all the sources and proofs included, starting the Finnish one.

What is your guide to these profiles that you do not want to merge?
If I follow your wish so I can not see a choice but to delete them ...

That is against my principle ... I do not never delete any profiles if they are correct!

This is not a problem in Finland because we try catch and merge "new users" in our projects before they reach a family tree in the Middle Ages.

In my opinion .... I'm sorry in advance .. It is because lack of curators activity.
Things can be done in another way ... just like we do here in Finland.

-Petri

Are the profiles you're talking about in the Medieval era?

If so, and they duplicate MPs on the shared world tree, then this is the way we've evolved together to deal with them when they run up and down the tree so that we don't create days of work for other Curators.
Reason are given in first two posts. Discussion is here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/158450?msg=1228973.

Which profiles are they? Post them ad we can chat about the specifics.

If not, then of course you merge them in -that is everybody's way, not just the Finnish way.

MP issue. Two Elizabeth's, as daughters. Born two years apart. Is it the same person that married both of these men and should be merged or two separate ladies? One says born in England and the other Netherlands. One is my Grandmother and the other isn't. Correct parents? I'm not sure which is which.

Constance Ferrers

Greetings,

These profiles are link below seem very similar. Was there more than one husband of same Surname? A mistress or maybe husband went by his nickname and not his forename? Different lines or same people but wife married more than once? One shows as a 13th Grandmother and the other profile a second cousin 14 times removed. I'm not very familiar with this family line. I need a new pair of eyes on this...

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000193705164821?to=600000000...

Here are the paths for me. The wife before the merge is on one profile a 13th Grandmother and in the other a second cousin 14 times removed. The husband on the MP is showing as an Uncle but if it was merged would be a Grandfather.

https://www.geni.com/path/Annber-Collins+is+related+to+Jane-MacKay?...

https://www.geni.com/path/Annber-Collins+is+related+to+Hugh-MacKay-...

Another issue. Also please advise if I'm not putting these in the right place.

Showing as a 14th and 16th Grandparent for second link below between the profiles when compared. But also a 1st cousin 18 times removed when compared at the third link below. Three profile matches for Humphrey at first link. I linked the compared profiles at the other two links. Same person or two different men with similar matches?

*Sir Humphrey Bourchier, of West Horsley

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000203969433841?to=4485549

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000203969433841?to=600000000...

Please review this one as well.

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000021013340171?to=600000009...

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000022720967891?to=600000020...

(This one seems very straightforward and matches exactly but needs sources to be sure. Another Grandparent relationship.)

Elizabeth Hansford Camm

(Two matches to be merged or rejected. Paths shown are 12th and 15th Grandparent and no link to the other but all similar to each other.)

Showing as 17th and 18th Grandparent.

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000055022516119?to=600000005...